Well, stone me .........
26 May 2012, 09:28 PM
#31
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Another born again Christian checking in. Born again meaning that i have died to my old life of drinking, drug taking, blaspheming, football club worshipping, womanising etc etc. I have been following Jesus myself for nearly 4 years now and my life has completely changed giving me real purpose and direction and a hope of eternity. Tony is completely right, religion is dead but Jesus IS alive. My church is fantastic and any of you wanting to come along and see what it's all about would receive a warm South Yorkshire welcome.
26 May 2012, 09:31 PM
#32
Another born again Christian checking in. Born again meaning that i have died to my old life of drinking, drug taking, blaspheming, football club worshipping, womanising etc etc. I have been following Jesus myself for nearly 4 years now and my life has completely changed giving me real purpose and direction and a hope of eternity. Tony is completely right, religion is dead but Jesus IS alive. My church is fantastic and any of you wanting to come along and see what it's all about would receive a warm South Yorkshire welcome.
26 May 2012, 09:38 PM
#33
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FWIW I think it is arrogant for humans, in their limited three dimensional life, to assume that no other powers or dimensions exist in the universe. It is simply impossible to begin to understand what such others dimensions might control. I hope this makes some sense 
dl
dl
Last edited by David Lock; 26 May 2012 at 09:40 PM.
26 May 2012, 09:39 PM
#34
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Good at the time but i didn't know any better. Gave up what i thought was great for something that i know is flippin' brilliant. As Tony said earlier having a personal relationship with Jesus is a personal decision and i would never force my beliefs on anyone mate.
26 May 2012, 09:48 PM
#36
Another born again Christian checking in. Born again meaning that i have died to my old life of drinking, drug taking, blaspheming, football club worshipping, womanising etc etc. I have been following Jesus myself for nearly 4 years now and my life has completely changed giving me real purpose and direction and a hope of eternity. Tony is completely right, religion is dead but Jesus IS alive. My church is fantastic and any of you wanting to come along and see what it's all about would receive a warm South Yorkshire welcome.
26 May 2012, 09:50 PM
#37
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I agree that the most people do not possess a true understanding of Jesus & Christianity & the Church has only itself to blame for not representing them well.
Dawkins like an human being is not the final word or the be all and end all of knowledge, insight, perception, intellect, rationale & understanding. He gives his views based on his limited beliefs, convictions or understanding but by no means is the final authority on God, spirituality, philosophy etc.
Belief cannot & will not be subject to empirical evidence ie. verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment, that is exactly why faith is necessary.
Do you think those that read and allude to Dawkins or any other individual perhaps ought to also read wider & deeper?
Dawkins like an human being is not the final word or the be all and end all of knowledge, insight, perception, intellect, rationale & understanding. He gives his views based on his limited beliefs, convictions or understanding but by no means is the final authority on God, spirituality, philosophy etc.
Belief cannot & will not be subject to empirical evidence ie. verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment, that is exactly why faith is necessary.
Do you think those that read and allude to Dawkins or any other individual perhaps ought to also read wider & deeper?
26 May 2012, 10:06 PM
#39
Unequivocally. And I speak as a recovering anti-theist and Dawkins disciple; I'm just glad I read other atheistic authors such as Sam Harris who has the intellectual honesty to seperate the madness of literalism from spirituality. Additionally, arguably my favourite non-fiction author and public intellectual is (was) the late, great anti-theist Christopher Hitchens and, ironically, it was his enormously well developed grasp of the dialectic that inspired me to challenge his and his contemporaries' message. I'd challenge some of Snet's Dawkins wannabes to read some Hegel and Kierkegaard or some Martin Buber or possibly something simple like CS Lewis's superb Christian writing and then come back for a serious chat.
26 May 2012, 10:18 PM
#40
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27 May 2012, 09:31 AM
#41
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However, my wife and subsequently my children do believe and I would say they have a more peaceful ride through life. They don't wake at 3am worrying that the darkness I just experiences during sleep will soon be permenant they KNOW that things will be fine and that there is something after what we know as life finishes.
So ... those who believe I don't have a problem with. It is just something that I cannot do myself/
27 May 2012, 10:58 AM
#43
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Just like a few God believers have come on this thread 
, I do hope some gay people also join our next Gay debate on SN. It does help readers to see things from the followers' perspective. The people who are in it should have a say in the threads that involve them/what they are/what they do. Then it becomes a fairer debate.
, I do hope some gay people also join our next Gay debate on SN. It does help readers to see things from the followers' perspective. The people who are in it should have a say in the threads that involve them/what they are/what they do. Then it becomes a fairer debate.
28 May 2012, 11:39 AM
#44
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So why not respect that and stop insulting people whose beliefs are different to your own then?
Les
28 May 2012, 11:52 AM
#45
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Believe whats actually here, believe in ghosts....
There are many things that happen we actually explain/prove on/in this human planet.
In science, a fact needs to be found. Theory means little until proof can be had.
The eternal debate continues... Evolution
There are many things that happen we actually explain/prove on/in this human planet.
In science, a fact needs to be found. Theory means little until proof can be had.
The eternal debate continues... Evolution
28 May 2012, 07:24 PM
#47
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To the believers, would you agree that the belief that makes you a Christian is that Jesus rose from the dead?
If so, would you accept that it is an extraordinary claim to make so it should require extraordinary evidence?
If so, my follow on question is why should I suspend rational process that I would require for far less important questions and employ faith?
If so, would you accept that it is an extraordinary claim to make so it should require extraordinary evidence?
If so, my follow on question is why should I suspend rational process that I would require for far less important questions and employ faith?
28 May 2012, 07:49 PM
#48
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just back from a chritening for my best mates child
first time in church fo many years
the effort put into brainwashing and repence was beyond phenominal, calling on unquestioning following - and beleif without question which was shocking imo!!!
however the sentiment behind the reasoning was much more enjoyable, human tolerance, caring, communtiy events ect - even behind the cloak of religion represented a pleasant scenario.
if only there was a reachable mid-ground.
first time in church fo many years
the effort put into brainwashing and repence was beyond phenominal, calling on unquestioning following - and beleif without question which was shocking imo!!!
however the sentiment behind the reasoning was much more enjoyable, human tolerance, caring, communtiy events ect - even behind the cloak of religion represented a pleasant scenario.
if only there was a reachable mid-ground.
28 May 2012, 09:06 PM
#49
What about this
One night a man had a dream.
He dreamed he was walking along
the beach with the Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene, he noticed
two sets of footprints in the sand,
one beloning to him and the other to the Lord.
When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.
He noticed that many times along the path of his life
there was only one set of footprints.
He also noticed that it happened at the
very lowest and saddest times in his life.
This bothered him and he questioned the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,
you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life there is
only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when I needed you most
you would leave me."
The Lord replied "My precious, precious child,
I love you and would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffereing,
when you see only one set of footprints in the sand,
it was then that I carried you.
One night a man had a dream.
He dreamed he was walking along
the beach with the Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene, he noticed
two sets of footprints in the sand,
one beloning to him and the other to the Lord.
When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.
He noticed that many times along the path of his life
there was only one set of footprints.
He also noticed that it happened at the
very lowest and saddest times in his life.
This bothered him and he questioned the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,
you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life there is
only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when I needed you most
you would leave me."
The Lord replied "My precious, precious child,
I love you and would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffereing,
when you see only one set of footprints in the sand,
it was then that I carried you.
I don't belive in god though, seeing IS beliving...
28 May 2012, 10:53 PM
#51
I do not believe in anything apart from a deep, dark infinite nothingness. Scary.
However, my wife and subsequently my children do believe and I would say they have a more peaceful ride through life. They don't wake at 3am worrying that the darkness I just experiences during sleep will soon be permenant they KNOW that things will be fine and that there is something after what we know as life finishes.
So ... those who believe I don't have a problem with. It is just something that I cannot do myself/
However, my wife and subsequently my children do believe and I would say they have a more peaceful ride through life. They don't wake at 3am worrying that the darkness I just experiences during sleep will soon be permenant they KNOW that things will be fine and that there is something after what we know as life finishes.
So ... those who believe I don't have a problem with. It is just something that I cannot do myself/
At this point in my life, I'm not really sure what I believe any more, if I'm honest. I know that I am not a fan of religion, but I can't rule out that there is something more after this life.
28 May 2012, 11:06 PM
#54
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Of course there is proof !
here is a piece of toast that I pulled out of my toaster this morning
with our dear lord Jesus on it !
that's all the proof I need
Last edited by nizmo80; 28 May 2012 at 11:09 PM.
29 May 2012, 05:37 PM
#60
This topic tends to come around frequently on here.
I was brought up as Catholic, went to Catholic schools and regularly went to church up until my late teens. Life changes as you get older and my perspective on things is slighly clouded due to life experiences.
It's easy to make fun of people with faith (in any religion), and simply repeating lines like "prove it" or "if I can't see it it isnt true" is pretty childish as you're simply baiting. At some point in our lives we will all experience truly awful times, its at these times when faith can give you a lifeline to cling to.
To belittle someone for wanting something to believe in and help them in their time of need is pretty low in my book. One day you will need that sort of help and comfort and I hope you find it, but for some its in faith.
I'm not trying to push religion down anyones throat, all you atheists can burn in hell only kidding!
There was an interesting programme on TV a couple of weekends ago about the rise in Cult like Religions, did anyone else catch it?
I was brought up as Catholic, went to Catholic schools and regularly went to church up until my late teens. Life changes as you get older and my perspective on things is slighly clouded due to life experiences.
It's easy to make fun of people with faith (in any religion), and simply repeating lines like "prove it" or "if I can't see it it isnt true" is pretty childish as you're simply baiting. At some point in our lives we will all experience truly awful times, its at these times when faith can give you a lifeline to cling to.
To belittle someone for wanting something to believe in and help them in their time of need is pretty low in my book. One day you will need that sort of help and comfort and I hope you find it, but for some its in faith.
I'm not trying to push religion down anyones throat, all you atheists can burn in hell
only kidding!There was an interesting programme on TV a couple of weekends ago about the rise in Cult like Religions, did anyone else catch it?