Classic tuning thread on here...
21 March 2012, 11:24 PM
#91
While I accept most of your points, I don't understand this one. Everyone has a budget, and the aim is to use that budget most efficiently. Even prodrive has a budget. In fact, if prodrive weren't seeking the best value for money from their components, they wouldn't be winning any rallies. If money really wasn't an option, you'd be installing this sort of stuff in your car. (Hopefully that answers craigo's question as well) But you're not, so money clearly is an option.
Yes, there is a balance between reliability and cost. But loads of people are running 400bhp on the right 5 speed gearboxes without any problems at all.
It's not just me saying this, either. Here's harvey on the P1 forums saying the same thing.
Unfortunately people propagate the myth that because some 5 speed gearboxes are weak, they all are. I think it does the community a useful service to better understand which gearboxes are weak, which are stronger, and why.
Yes, there is a balance between reliability and cost. But loads of people are running 400bhp on the right 5 speed gearboxes without any problems at all.
It's not just me saying this, either. Here's harvey on the P1 forums saying the same thing.
Unfortunately people propagate the myth that because some 5 speed gearboxes are weak, they all are. I think it does the community a useful service to better understand which gearboxes are weak, which are stronger, and why.
The problem if I were to pin it down is the 'communities' access to these used boxes at a price that makes them worthwhile in comparison to a six speed. It's all very well Harvey, other specialists or hands on enthusiast running one at 400/400 but the likelihood of Joe Bloggs sourcing one at a comparable cost to do the same is questionable IMHO. Even if they were £500, you've only got to kill one and have to buy another, with fitting and faff you're 6 speed territory.
I'd rather take a punt on a Newage 6Speed than a much older cheaper 5speed purely because it's been seen to be able to take a power level.
It's a worthy discussion granted, I just prefer the 6speed
21 March 2012, 11:31 PM
#92
If you can only stretch to a 5 speed then that's what you must do. Personally I would never be happy with that whether I could afford it or not. I fitted a cheap 5 speed to my wagon to get moving again but all the time looking for another 6 speed 
So what do these stronger 5 speeds go for then and how available are they ?
21 March 2012, 11:51 PM
#93
With slightly less respect people cut their cloth accordingly If you can only stretch to a 5 speed then that's what you must do. Personally I would never be happy with that whether I could afford it or not. I fitted a cheap 5 speed to my wagon to get moving again but all the time looking for another 6 speed
So what do these stronger 5 speeds go for then and how available are they ?
If you can only stretch to a 5 speed then that's what you must do. Personally I would never be happy with that whether I could afford it or not. I fitted a cheap 5 speed to my wagon to get moving again but all the time looking for another 6 speed So what do these stronger 5 speeds go for then and how available are they ?
21 March 2012, 11:57 PM
#97
22 March 2012, 12:00 AM
#99
I'm gonna take a guess and say that the pre-MY93-96 "Gp.A" rules prob allowed them to replace the OEM gearsets/ratios with much stronger items?????? Bound to be straight-cut with dogs, too. I'm sure it would have been a 5-sp though, as their 6-sp hadn't been invented then. Plus the homologation rules rules would dictate that anyway.
By MY97, when the rules were relaxed to "WRC" status, then they had a hell of a lot more freedom. Indeed Prodrive invented their sequential (6 or 7sp?) in the end...
By MY97, when the rules were relaxed to "WRC" status, then they had a hell of a lot more freedom. Indeed Prodrive invented their sequential (6 or 7sp?) in the end...
Last edited by joz8968; 22 March 2012 at 12:14 AM.
22 March 2012, 12:07 AM
#100
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OK, once more, it isn't about "not being able to afford it", it is about where the money is best spent to get the fastest car. These are different concepts I think
When you start modding a car, you should always factor in contingency anyway for unexpected snags. The gearbox just forms part of that. And with the right choice of gearbox, I think the likelihood of failure is small. Larger than that of a 6 speed, but still far less likely than not. *If* the right box is chosen.
No shortage of classics being broken for parts. Sadly I think there is sometimes more money in breaking a 99/00 STi than selling it as a going concern
I've seen several being broken for parts even though there is nothing wrong with them at all (or very minor, easily repairable scrapes).
When you start modding a car, you should always factor in contingency anyway for unexpected snags. The gearbox just forms part of that. And with the right choice of gearbox, I think the likelihood of failure is small. Larger than that of a 6 speed, but still far less likely than not. *If* the right box is chosen.
No shortage of classics being broken for parts. Sadly I think there is sometimes more money in breaking a 99/00 STi than selling it as a going concern
I've seen several being broken for parts even though there is nothing wrong with them at all (or very minor, easily repairable scrapes).
22 March 2012, 12:09 AM
#101
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I'll drop another link in... http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/9.html
22 March 2012, 01:54 AM
#106
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My car has had the 2.5 for the last 70k kms and the 5 speed only let after going from a vf35 to a Vf48 and a map from jgm. That is still a good testement to the original box it had 225,000 km on it
22 March 2012, 02:41 AM
#110
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I think a better clutch would be harder on the box imo
Last edited by Baz82; 22 March 2012 at 02:44 AM.
or not !
22 March 2012, 03:23 AM
#112
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Why do you think that?
Here is the vid, , box gives up at the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf4ageD4Ym8&sns=fb
22 March 2012, 03:38 AM
#114
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22 March 2012, 03:45 AM
#116
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22 March 2012, 09:08 AM
#117
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The group N gearboxes have to use the standard gearbox castings, so the original 5 speed/6 speed castings homologated for that model would be used in the rally cars. Once again, the gearsets are not standard and probably bespoke Hewland items. These would be cheaper than the WRC boxes, but still almost certainly more expensive than the PPG or scoobyclinic gearsets.
You can call up the place and discuss prices with them
, but as a word of warning, the gearboxes would not be very nice to live with on the road! Straight cut gears put less load on the gearbox and transmit more torque to the wheels but they make one hell of a noise.
22 March 2012, 09:33 AM
#118
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According to the list craigo posted (usually caveat about stuff found on the internet etc) the TY752VBCAA does *not* have the uprated gearset that was fitted to the v4 STi type R and the V5 STi models. So it isn't supposed to be one of the stronger ones. That said, again according to the internets, only 1st/2nd/3rd gears were upgraded, and you stripped 4th gear.
MartynJ's box managed 520 lb-ft before his v5 STi 4th gear broke, but then as he was drag racing it, the gearbox oil temperature may not have got as high as on a track day.
22 March 2012, 12:53 PM
#119
Just to put my stance on things. My project thread isn't completely budget driven but if finances weren't an issue then i'd have started with an EJ22T. Personally i'd be much more impressed with someone spending £4k and achieving 400BHP than someone spending £10k for 500BHP, as long as they were reliable of course.
If a £500 gearbox can do the job of a £1500 6spd then why pay the extra?, and so far i don't think anyone is saying for definate that it can.
To me a Subaru has always been about a relatively cheap car that can keep up and in some cases embarass cars of 10x the value.
If a £500 gearbox can do the job of a £1500 6spd then why pay the extra?, and so far i don't think anyone is saying for definate that it can.
To me a Subaru has always been about a relatively cheap car that can keep up and in some cases embarass cars of 10x the value.
22 March 2012, 02:10 PM
#120
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Check this out:
www.enduringsolutions.com/13Mar11.pdf
No.28, ESL Demo Wagon.
This was our shakedown for the blue ESL wagon last year. We beat everything except Dunc Cowpers TA winning F1 turbo powered Dax. Every Ferrari, TVR and Porsche, Lotus and Caterham. The car stands us in at well under 10k. Not bad for a £295 ECU.