Type R

There is an art to VTECing it , once you learn how to keep the revs up it is a formidable, and i would never bet against it. The bonus of it all is pistons, don't slap, vtec won't brake, and turns in a half decent fuel consumption.

Also the "in the wet" bit is unproven about the Scoob wiping the floor with Honda's, certainly i have been on quite a few Scoobynet runs and been on runs with loads of Scoobs and Evo's, mostly in the wet, and had no problems staying with many and even losing a few. The LSD makes a huge difference, i tend to be able to go in quicker to the corners, where as a Scoob uses the bucket loads of torque to get away from a corner faster so swings and rounabouts, the power to weight is similar to a Scoob, so in a straight line up to 110 ish, there is nothing in it.

Lee I havent used the slicks since i uprated the suspension, as it has sooo much grip now, god knows what grip i would get on full race slicks.

Although my comments sound like im comparing the two, im not, most top end Honda's can't comfortably seat 4 people, and keep the speed up, and would be awful on rough surfaces, but the Type R's are so race bred, your journey to and from work feels like a lapping a circuit (Could be good thing or bad spose ).

I guess after all that mumbling you buy a Scoob for one thing and a Honda for another. Best bet is to get both.

[Edited by Type R - 4/27/2002 11:14:41 PM]

The_Gza

Cue song *I feel like Chicken Tonight, Chicken Tonight*

FreeT

What about a VTEC with a turbo?????? recon it'll need AWD then....

Hol

iTrader: (1)

Someone I know was looking to upgrade on his MX5 1.8 and drove the S2000 belonging to a workfriend.

His thoughts were that the S2000 was faster when you thrashed it, but the mazda had lots more torque.

Lower to mid range and S2000 will lose out where 8v and cars like the scoobys are better. Once you get rolling then the S2000 will benefit from 2wd (about 25bhp loss to scoob 90bhp) and high revs.

Bottom line, an S2000 would be good on an A Road, but crap on the twisty fast-slow (if you use brakes) stuff. As a rally orientated car the Scoob or Evo would always persevere.

Neither is better or worse, but both are different.

Hey, you are all right!

lpitt

Doh!

The S2k would be much slower on a twisty UNLESS you use the gears properly. There's a real knack to keeping it in the 'VTEC zone' but once you've got it there's grins to be had all round.

I think I said earlier that initially I was a bit disappointed with the performance of my Type-R after selling the Scooby. Now I've got the measure of the engine it's fantastic and I don't regret the move one bit!

I read somewhere once (and don't take this the wrong way please):

An Impreza can take an average driver and turn them into a good driver. It takes a good driver and turns them into an outstanding one. There aren't many cars that can do this.

And that's about the bottom line of it.

Laurence
(A dedicated Honda Civic Type-R Owner!)

Year One Racing

My ITR spends a lot of its time over 6000k (vtec zone) and thats fine. Its such fun driving something that feels like a racer although not everyone would appreciate it! In the future i hope to get it reving to over 10000rpm with new cams, valves, valve springs etc.... Now that will be fun. If in doubt over the vtec just come and listen to mine at 9200rpm (redline) through a tunnel... he he.

Each to their own but i like dropping two gears to overtake as i find it fun! Coupled to the impeccable handling i wouldnt swap it for (almost) anything... Its really not a chore to vtec it just requires recallibration of the brain!!!!!

ITR
HKS Hiper Muffler
HKS Super Header
Apexi Intake
b-Factory racing gas flow
Spoon Sports head gasket
+ a few secret bits.........

[Edited by Year One Racing - 4/30/2002 3:46:19 PM]

bumcrack

It's just like most race engines you have power at the top end only. Once you get used to it, its fine.
Hol, I don't share you views, driven right the S2000 is quick at slow/fast twists or anything you want to throw at it.
ie past 5500+ revs, you've got to drive it like you've stolen it(race car style) and it really loves it too.

And Hey your alright too

LG John

I agree it's usually easy to keep the revs up for cornering but there is one type of corner that screws the Saxo everytime and surely the Honda's would suffer just as bad.......Drum roll......Hairpins. Why, you ask:

Well, you hit the hairpin at max 25-30mph in which case you'd drop back to 2nd gear which would (in the Saxo) give you about 3000rpm, well out the power band. You can't drop back to first so you have to wait a few seconds till you hit the power in which time any turbo charged car in front has just pulled a several car length lead. Am I right, or and I right??

lpitt

Can't speak for the ITR, JDM original CTR, ATR or S2K but the new CTR doesn't have a problem with this. Hitting the hairpin at that speed would put you around 3,500 in 2nd with plenty of torque to get away.

Although the 0-60 is over 6 seconds, the 10-60 is bl00dy rapid and 30-90 is scary!

Laurence

LG John

I'm sure it pulls well from 3,500 for the type of car it is but a scooby would be boosting its *** off by then and would surely leave you for dust till you got nearer 5,500?

lpitt

To be quite honest I don't know and would love to find out. Am planning to get on track at least once this year to see what happens. My gut feeling having driven 35,000 miles in my Scooby and 8,000 in the Type-R is that it's going to be closer than people think.

Against a standard Scooby anyway. Would get murdered by a decent STi or P1 etc

Adam M

IIRC there is an old guy at donington with lots of track experience and a standard ITR in white . He laps about 3 to 4 seconds a lap faster than all the imprezas there. Its down to track knowledge no doubt, but it shows that the car is more than capable.

I have to say I disagree about the power band and the 3000rpm thing.

You guys forgot to take gearing and redline into the equation.

assume the imp has a 6k redline for ease since it dies at 6 anyway,

and take into account the gears are set for a 6k redline, then the with a 3k power band, 50% of the rev range is usable where as on the S2000, only 33% or the last 3k of 9k is usable.


More importantly I am really pleased to hear the talk on here about the S2000, my 55 year old dad, who I have been begging for years to buy a new merc SL, decided he didnt want to spend lots on a car but was bored with his accord 2.0 exec! He wanted a honda because the delearship was 100m from his house and 50m from his office so was more convenient plus the part ex would be better.

in a desperate attempt to stop him buying another crv, I made him drive the S2000, and to my shock he loved it and bought one!

so next week I will have the pleasure of running in a MY02 black S2000 with red leather seats and hard top. Heard an ITR the other day in a tunnel and am assuming the noise is similar.

jokily my dad asked if he would be as quick as me.

Anyone know how an S2000 would compare with a a 350+bhp 22B? (remember this scoob is very rear wheel drive!)

Type R

I have converted most of my family to the Type R range. Mum is waiting for her Yellow 02 S2000, Brother - ITR, Dad - ATR, Me - JDM CTR.

We love the Red line

Adam M

my redline is still 8500rpm, mine is turbo charged from abotu 3k ish, and wont wain towards the top!

I will not be converted, but thats ok, as I will happliy drive my dads S2k when its sunny! if I am bored and want to go relatively slowly.

Scooby a la francaise

Well Adam,
I'm about to order my S2K. My boyfriend has a modified 99 Scoob, and he is more than welcome to take mine for a drive if he fancies something a bit quick and sexy for a change (if he can take it!!!!)Can't wait for the thrill of VTEC !!!

DominicA

Someone else on this board has just bought a new one of these, eh Colin?? He's still running it in, so limited to low revs. I can't begin to tell you how impressed I was with this car. If it's this good at low revs it's gonna be an absolute stormer once run in. I for one would not bet against it in a test against most scoobs.

foz01

Having driven a 98 PPP'd scoob and an S2000 recently I doubt there would be much in it.

My own car is a chipped TT (267bhp) by the way!

Any way the S2000 will hang onto gears much longer and sounds like a motorbike when getting ragged! As for which is faster i dont know but they are both gr8 cars- completely different mind! I also managed to do the best do-nut in history in the car

IMHo the S2k is about 5k overpriced- just look at the import prices, I was impressed with the car but not enough to change from the audi!

IntegraR

But why is the emphasis placed on which is faster? The S2k is certainly far more involving and fun, which is surely more important than going 0.2 of a second faster to 60 or something.

Lets face it, a Scoob hardly inspires anyone to run out and buy it for its looks, and it is not the most enthralling drive unless you're above 100Mph, whereas an S2k can be enjoyed more of the time, which is more important?

I suppose at the end of the day, like everything, its down to personal choice, but you can make a bath tub fast if you stick enough turbo's and modifications on it, but you can never make it a finely tuned piece of engineering built purely to be enjoyed.

All in my VVHO

Mo

Here's an interesting article from Autospeed

FreeT

IntegraR: "a Scoob hardly inspires anyone to run out and buy it for its looks, and it is not the most enthralling drive unless you're above 100Mph" what are you talking about?

lpitt

I agree, my comment from earlier in the thread:

Other cars that do this include EVO VI & VII, Skyline R34. So that HAS to be a compliment.

If I could have afforded the running costs for the high mileage I do then there would still be a Scooby in my garage.

I do find the Type-R more challenging to drive, but better grins when it goes right.

Laurence

Adam M

I actually agree, but on that point everyone should buy an mx5, which is very cheap and gives great thrills for the money.

I wouldnt say that grip makes a car uninvolving. For me handling makes the car fun, and the impreza handling is fun no question.

Also acceleration makes the car fun not just cornering at high speed.

Bombjack

Here's a review by Rob Collingridge of his recent test drive of an S2000, which may be of interest: http://www.elises.co.uk/diary/2002/april.html

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

A friend of mine has just purchased an S2000, its a lovely looking car and great for summer, performance wise id say its probably on par with most uk cars, and higher up the range it may be slightly quicker, not down to transmission losses which at 80bhp i thinks a lot of tosh, but down to aerodynamics
The scoob is basically a brick in this area, this is where its losses are, not transmission, that nice scoop we have on the front may give us nice cold air onto the intercooler but look how much drag it must be causing!
The S2000 is probably a great car to drive but with no real torque low down it means that you could get caught out alot for quick overtaking manouvers

Tony

bumcrack

Spot on IntegraR, that's why I want rid of the scooby, it's fast and easy to drive at silly speeds, but boring to drive and it looks poo.

Adam M

tony,

the drag from the scoop cant be that high,

if it was, it would be ripped off, and since it isnt that strong, I think you would be surprised!

LG John

Stick your hand out the window at 70mph and tell me the scoop doesn't drag

moses

yeah my mate has one nice to drive and very nice inside but not as cool as to drive a rallycar and im talking about an evo and scoobys are not bad either especially the p1, kev from the ss-r has one its cool

LG John

So is the 02 model any different from the previous ones, more power, etc. How would a modified UK scooby do against one?

CraigH

Drove a friends and one at Bedford Autodrome.

Felt gutless and was almost like you could feel the chassis twisting powering out of tight bends.

Looked great, sounded great but didn't like it.

Was the pre-update model though.......

As to being faster than a Scoob - bury the throttle at 3.5-5k and see what happens. Nothing