Clare's Law
20 July 2011, 04:45 PM
#31
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20 July 2011, 06:09 PM
#32
Don't you think that it's a slippery slope though Pimmo? Today it might be violence tomorrow it might be people that returned a book late to the library ... I'm dead against "things" being made available to the public as who knows where it will end! Tbh I'm stunned that anyone can check & see what I paid for my house 
TX.
TX.
20 July 2011, 06:14 PM
#33
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For any normal person in a serious relationship, this issue will never come up. Can't think of a situation where a woman would want to just randomly do this check.
If the history is there, then why not allow them to see it if they want? But 99% of the women with abusive partners will know after a very short period of time anyway.
It's not really an intrusion of privacy per se.
If the history is there, then why not allow them to see it if they want? But 99% of the women with abusive partners will know after a very short period of time anyway.
It's not really an intrusion of privacy per se.
20 July 2011, 06:18 PM
#34
Just to counter a few of the comments that have been made:
1. the law will NOT be limited to women checking male partners for a history of spousal abuse, men will also be able to check females for the same. After the recent EU ruling on special insurance rates for women, it's obvious any attempt to do otherwise would have got shot down in seconds, so it would have been pointless trying.
2. as I understand it, the law will only give people the right to access information about a partner's history of criminal convictions for spousal abuse, or at the very most convictions for violence against the person generally. It's not a blanket entitlement to go fishing for any random kind of dirt on anyone you feel like.
3. checks as per point 2. won't be limited to serial abusers. Anyone with even a single criminal conviction for physical abuse of a partner would be open to having that information divulged to new partners.
Personally, I don't really see a problem with it. If it means the scumbags of this world get named and shamed, the rest of us non-scumbags will look all the better for it. As others have mentioned though, there's always the question of the cost, and whether they'll make a total b@lls-up of putting it into practice, but you can only hope for the best.
1. the law will NOT be limited to women checking male partners for a history of spousal abuse, men will also be able to check females for the same. After the recent EU ruling on special insurance rates for women, it's obvious any attempt to do otherwise would have got shot down in seconds, so it would have been pointless trying.
2. as I understand it, the law will only give people the right to access information about a partner's history of criminal convictions for spousal abuse, or at the very most convictions for violence against the person generally. It's not a blanket entitlement to go fishing for any random kind of dirt on anyone you feel like.
3. checks as per point 2. won't be limited to serial abusers. Anyone with even a single criminal conviction for physical abuse of a partner would be open to having that information divulged to new partners.
Personally, I don't really see a problem with it. If it means the scumbags of this world get named and shamed, the rest of us non-scumbags will look all the better for it. As others have mentioned though, there's always the question of the cost, and whether they'll make a total b@lls-up of putting it into practice, but you can only hope for the best.
20 July 2011, 06:26 PM
#35
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Just to counter a few of the comments that have been made:
1. the law will NOT be limited to women checking male partners for a history of spousal abuse, men will also be able to check females for the same. After the recent EU ruling on special insurance rates for women, it's obvious any attempt to do otherwise would have got shot down in seconds, so it would have been pointless trying.
2. as I understand it, the law will only give people the right to access information about a partner's history of criminal convictions for spousal abuse, or at the very most convictions for violence against the person generally. It's not a blanket entitlement to go fishing for any random kind of dirt on anyone you feel like.
3. checks as per point 2. won't be limited to serial abusers. Anyone with even a single criminal conviction for physical abuse of a partner would be open to having that information divulged to new partners.
Personally, I don't really see a problem with it. If it means the scumbags of this world get named and shamed, the rest of us non-scumbags will look all the better for it. As others have mentioned though, there's always the question of the cost, and whether they'll make a total b@lls-up of putting it into practice, but you can only hope for the best.
1. the law will NOT be limited to women checking male partners for a history of spousal abuse, men will also be able to check females for the same. After the recent EU ruling on special insurance rates for women, it's obvious any attempt to do otherwise would have got shot down in seconds, so it would have been pointless trying.
2. as I understand it, the law will only give people the right to access information about a partner's history of criminal convictions for spousal abuse, or at the very most convictions for violence against the person generally. It's not a blanket entitlement to go fishing for any random kind of dirt on anyone you feel like.
3. checks as per point 2. won't be limited to serial abusers. Anyone with even a single criminal conviction for physical abuse of a partner would be open to having that information divulged to new partners.
Personally, I don't really see a problem with it. If it means the scumbags of this world get named and shamed, the rest of us non-scumbags will look all the better for it. As others have mentioned though, there's always the question of the cost, and whether they'll make a total b@lls-up of putting it into practice, but you can only hope for the best.
20 July 2011, 06:29 PM
#36
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As others have said, it's a bit of political point scoring. It will hardly be of any practical use whatsoever. No normal couples would even give it a passing thought, and the ones who would (I'm guessing mostly the women) will know anyway... and whatever info they are given they will probably ignore and carry on as normal with their chump boyfriends/husbands.
20 July 2011, 06:29 PM
#37
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It's utterly retarded. The whole point of abusive relationships is that the abuser has an emotional hold over the victim who is receptive to their manipulation. How is a background check going to help that?
20 July 2011, 06:31 PM
#38
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20 July 2011, 06:47 PM
#39
4. the point of the law is for people to have a means of confirming OR allaying any suspicions they might have about a partner who begins acting oddly. If it gives even just a few people the encouragement they need to ditch a scumbag, or on the contrary to stop suspecting someone of being a scumbag when they're actually not, it has to be a good thing.
20 July 2011, 07:00 PM
#40
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4. the point of the law is for people to have a means of confirming OR allaying any suspicions they might have about a partner who begins acting oddly. If it gives even just a few people the encouragement they need to ditch a scumbag, or on the contrary to stop suspecting someone of being a scumbag when they're actually not, it has to be a good thing.
20 July 2011, 07:32 PM
#42
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Personally I've never been in an abusive relationship but I have had friends who were and even if they'd done these checks and found out their partner had a history of violence etc I don't think it would have stopped it as the partner would probably claim they've changed,let's not forget they're are women out there who are abusive too.
20 July 2011, 07:41 PM
#43
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20 July 2011, 07:43 PM
#44
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For any normal person in a serious relationship, this issue will never come up. Can't think of a situation where a woman would want to just randomly do this check.
If the history is there, then why not allow them to see it if they want? But 99% of the women with abusive partners will know after a very short period of time anyway.
It's not really an intrusion of privacy per se.
If the history is there, then why not allow them to see it if they want? But 99% of the women with abusive partners will know after a very short period of time anyway.
It's not really an intrusion of privacy per se.
Got to take issue here.
A woman might "randomly" want to check the database if she felt there were signs her partner was beginning to display abusive tendencies?
99% will "know". Sorry but where does that statistic come from, other than thin air?
20 July 2011, 08:03 PM
#46
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Even at my age I know girls who have been hit by their boyfriends. They have all just convinced themselves it's fine and carried on. One did recently end things, but only after her boyfriend did a mini Raoul Moat and ended up in police custody. F*cking madness
20 July 2011, 08:21 PM
#47
I'll save you the hassle of waiting for a reply. He'll just say that these men will go after women they can tell are needy, lack confidence, have come from a background where abuse may have been present, weak etc. Ultimately, a bloke can tell, and the woman is to blame for being weak, or this wouldn't happen. Think that will be at least close to the response you'll get.
He is an expert you know.
He is an expert you know.
20 July 2011, 08:32 PM
#48
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I'll save you the hassle of waiting for a reply. He'll just say that these men will go after women they can tell are needy, lack confidence, have come from a background where abuse may have been present, weak etc. Ultimately, a bloke can tell, and the woman is to blame for being weak, or this wouldn't happen. Think that will be at least close to the response you'll get.
He is an expert you know.
He is an expert you know.
20 July 2011, 10:05 PM
#51
Domestic violence tends to follow a pattern.
The physical violence often comes after other controlling behaviours , which on the face of it might appear suspicious but are played down by the perpetrator.
Examples are turning the victim away from friends and family by making false claims about them or suggesting they are somehow jealous and "just don't want us to be happy together"
The controlling behaviour increases, perhaps controlling access to finances, then some mental abuse, maybe derogatory comments about physical appearance, all geared towards draining the victims confidence.
As the victims confidence dwindles, so the controlling becomes easier as it goes unchallenged.
Things are getting better for the offender.
As the victim lacks confidence, they stay home more, disengage from their friends and accept that its for their own good.
The physical violence starts with perhaps a push, then a push with some verbal abuse, then slaps, kicks, punches, bites . Excuses disguised as apologies follow. " It was the drink" "You made me do it" If you hadn't said that in front of my mates you wouldn't have made me do it"
Over time the victim genuinely believes these excuses. Their confidence has gone. Who else would have or want them? Now victims accept the violence. After all its their fault. This type of thing goes on in all relationships .
They need to do more for the partner to keep them. "After all no one else will want me. I'll have nowhere to go if I leave and I'll never see the kids again because they'll go into care."
Faced with these thoughts the victim remains in a relationship.
These relationships rarely get better until a massive outside influence intervenes.
Victims of domestic violence, based on national averages, find the courage to contact police on the 35th occasion they have been the victim of domestic violence.
The ability to discover what could potentially lie ahead, when the warning signs are first displayed may offer potential victims the opportunity to remain just that, potential and lucky.
The physical violence often comes after other controlling behaviours , which on the face of it might appear suspicious but are played down by the perpetrator.
Examples are turning the victim away from friends and family by making false claims about them or suggesting they are somehow jealous and "just don't want us to be happy together"
The controlling behaviour increases, perhaps controlling access to finances, then some mental abuse, maybe derogatory comments about physical appearance, all geared towards draining the victims confidence.
As the victims confidence dwindles, so the controlling becomes easier as it goes unchallenged.
Things are getting better for the offender.
As the victim lacks confidence, they stay home more, disengage from their friends and accept that its for their own good.
The physical violence starts with perhaps a push, then a push with some verbal abuse, then slaps, kicks, punches, bites . Excuses disguised as apologies follow. " It was the drink" "You made me do it" If you hadn't said that in front of my mates you wouldn't have made me do it"
Over time the victim genuinely believes these excuses. Their confidence has gone. Who else would have or want them? Now victims accept the violence. After all its their fault. This type of thing goes on in all relationships .
They need to do more for the partner to keep them. "After all no one else will want me. I'll have nowhere to go if I leave and I'll never see the kids again because they'll go into care."
Faced with these thoughts the victim remains in a relationship.
These relationships rarely get better until a massive outside influence intervenes.
Victims of domestic violence, based on national averages, find the courage to contact police on the 35th occasion they have been the victim of domestic violence.
The ability to discover what could potentially lie ahead, when the warning signs are first displayed may offer potential victims the opportunity to remain just that, potential and lucky.
20 July 2011, 10:28 PM
#52
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There may be an alien spaceship hiding behind the moon.
Pslewis may have beaten a GTR away from the lights in his Honda.
20 July 2011, 10:39 PM
#54
You have the opportunity to find out of Hitler is your grandfather by researching your family using websites both freely and subscribed
There may be an alien spaceship behind the moon. How do I find out if there is or not? With Clare's law, you have the opportunity to discover whether or not a potential partner is a serial perpetrator of domestic violence
PS Lewis / GTR, you're spouting rubbish.
Your response clearly highlights how Clare's law can provide answers for those who choose to use it.
20 July 2011, 11:25 PM
#55
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You have the opportunity to find out of Hitler is your grandfather by researching your family using websites both freely and subscribed
There may be an alien spaceship behind the moon. How do I find out if there is or not? With Clare's law, you have the opportunity to discover whether or not a potential partner is a serial perpetrator of domestic violence
PS Lewis / GTR, you're spouting rubbish.
Your response clearly highlights how Clare's law can provide answers for those who choose to use it.
There may be an alien spaceship behind the moon. How do I find out if there is or not? With Clare's law, you have the opportunity to discover whether or not a potential partner is a serial perpetrator of domestic violence
PS Lewis / GTR, you're spouting rubbish.
Your response clearly highlights how Clare's law can provide answers for those who choose to use it.
Originally Posted by s70rjw
The ability to discover what could potentially lie ahead, when the warning signs are first displayed may offer potential victims the opportunity to remain just that, potential and lucky.
You have no evidence that the type of women who become victims would use this service, and no evidence that if they did it would effect their relationship patterns.
Awesome.
20 July 2011, 11:39 PM
#56
Spit it out then, exactly what information do you think the police would divulge about you and to whom, if you didn't have a single conviction to your name for violence against a partner? What is it you'd be 'guilty' of, in those circumstances?
21 July 2011, 12:21 AM
#58
You said this on a thread a while back, along with other comments
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=27
Women who dress a certain way don't deserve to be raped, just like women who may lack in confidence or are 'needy' (not to mention scenarios mentioned by s70rjw) don't deserve to be abused.
You seem to suggest that due to a character flaw (as you assume) certain women are targetted, and you show little compassion as almost 'they bring it on themselves', yet you are quite strong in your views about how women dress shouldn't mean they are 'asking for it'. Slightly different scenarios, but not miles apart.
21 July 2011, 08:25 AM
#59
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But I think it was this one ....4. the point of the law is for people to have a means of confirming OR allaying any suspicions they might have about a partner who begins acting oddly. If it gives even just a few people the encouragement they need to ditch a scumbag, or on the contrary to stop suspecting someone of being a scumbag when they're actually not, it has to be a good thing.
.. I mean, who the h3ll defines 'acting oddly' ?????
As GK said, it's just political points scoring and will stop diddly squat in the way of "abusive partners". All it will mean will be many more vexatious claims by women against men and further the men/women divide. Which is a purely politically invented mechanism. Whatever the safeguards built in now what will happen is that there will be one or two other cases that mean that the authorities will need to open up the process to many more "victims", all in the interests of "protecting women from abusive partners".
Dave
21 July 2011, 08:32 AM
#60
Scooby Regular
Perhaps you're not, but you seem to be placing some responsibility at the foot of the woman. For what exactly? Not being strong enough???? For being the 'sort' to allow themselves to be manipulated??
You said this on a thread a while back, along with other comments
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=27
Women who dress a certain way don't deserve to be raped, just like women who may lack in confidence or are 'needy' (not to mention scenarios mentioned by s70rjw) don't deserve to be abused.
You seem to suggest that due to a character flaw (as you assume) certain women are targetted, and you show little compassion as almost 'they bring it on themselves', yet you are quite strong in your views about how women dress shouldn't mean they are 'asking for it'. Slightly different scenarios, but not miles apart.
You said this on a thread a while back, along with other comments
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=27
Women who dress a certain way don't deserve to be raped, just like women who may lack in confidence or are 'needy' (not to mention scenarios mentioned by s70rjw) don't deserve to be abused.
You seem to suggest that due to a character flaw (as you assume) certain women are targetted, and you show little compassion as almost 'they bring it on themselves', yet you are quite strong in your views about how women dress shouldn't mean they are 'asking for it'. Slightly different scenarios, but not miles apart.
Well spotted
