hodgy0_2

presumably Bigsinky, coming from NI, knows a little bit about the sharp end of racial and religious bigotry, intolerance and border control.

bigsinky

^^^ you presume right my friend from it's earliest days to the British government's sell out to IRA murderers

hodgy0_2

thought so Bigsinky,

and we will leave the thread to the people who really know about it because they have some sort of hotline to God Almightly

bigsinky

It means let it go. you and your ilk, TdW et al, traipse you your boring old rhetoric on Middle East politics and the pro Palestinian supporters rise to the bait every time. you're like a old dog with a bone who just won't let it go. It has been done to death and while yes i could opt to not post in the threads i just can see the point in having circular discussions about a subject that we will never get to the bottom of because of the polariztion of the contributers.

Now while you are correct in thinking this is an open forum and discussiion and debate are healthly, the same old protagonists seem to play this game of one up manship, which to be perfectly frank i find totally boring now.

So i think while both yourself and TdW are articulate enough to put your points across in well researched and logical manner, i just don't see the point in flogging the same old horse, hence my comment "let it go"

a quote attributed to Albert Einstein - "Insanity:doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I will leave you and your friends to argue Middle East politics with the Palestinian diaspora

tony de wonderful

We don't have any Palestinians here, just those that claim to speak for them...

bigsinky

whatever

JTaylor

Loyalist, then?

JTaylor

Fair enough, but might be worth reading the thread, which was about the Golan Heights incident, and asking what contribution you made. I agree with your basic idea here, though; it's a futile, unwinnable and frustrating argument.

bigsinky

nope, i may come from a particular community community but i am just stating fact here. I have no interest in party politics and don't consider myself a loyalist. i have seen what religious bigotry and sectarianism can do to a nation, but more importantly, what a devatating effect it has on family and family life.

I have no time for anyone who spouts political rhetoric on either side. in my opinion they are as bad as each other. From the Border Fox sniping British soldiers with one shot, one kill on the border in South Armagh, to Lenny Murphy pulling innocent cathloics in to black taxis and pulling their teeth out with pliers.

the ineptitude of sucessive British governments and even the laughable excuses for MLAs in Ni Assembly have lead me to the conclusion that

1. the british government would love to be rid of the Northern Ireland problem
2. if we had full autonomy the economic impact on the population would be so severe as to render NI a 3rd world country
3. there would be political deadlock to an extent that nothing would be agreed in the assembly because of veto powers allowed by both major parties.

JTaylor

So you're neither a loyalist or a republican. Ok, cheers.

bigsinky

you seem like a smart guy. any posts that i have read that you have written I have found to be articulate and cogent. So why do you continue, it just seem so illogical. do you need to keep your mind active? do you have nothing better to do? does it not frustrate you so much? Can you not let these type of threads go knowing you are not going to get anywhere nor get any pro Palestinian to come round to your point of view, or is it a case of hope springs eternal?

JTaylor

It's not the pro-Palestinian side that I'm interested in, Bs, rather those few who may read the threads that are undecided. Take a look again at my input on the Golan Heights incident:

https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=11
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=26

Now, what pissed me off is that you posted:

https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=28
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=44

which got our Muslim friends all excited and cheering but, when somebody drilled down on what you actually typed you got all flustered. So, you happily perpetuate Hamas' narrative (wittingly or otherwise) and then shift to "let it go" when cornered. I also find it quite odd that you'd describe Israel as "parasites" but sit on the fence regards the politics of your own homeland. Anyway, all interesting stuff.

dpb

Well at least youre recognizing Palestine exists , thats a start

bigsinky

I described Israel as a parasitic nation in that it has been supported and to a certain extent injected with cash and arms by the USA. If it had been left to its own devices after the state of Israel came into being in the 40s things might have been different today. Now while i don't condone the genocide of Jews either by Hilter or anyone else, i don't think the Jews would have survived long enough to get away with their land grab from the Palestinian arabs without help. Israel seems to be influenced quite a lot by both the banking and media empires primarily in America but also in other parts of the world where big Jewish communities reside. there are a plethora of reasons for this, political, monetary, socio-economic, geographically all of which have been done to death.

the reason for my own fence sitting is one of repeated disappointments in various governments, and my disafectation with the political and economic climate and the self righteous holier than thou attitude of MLAs who have frozen my pay for 4 years while they continue to line their own pockets. I exercise my majority on every occasion I am required to do but like everyone else I don't see any change nor if i am honest am i likely to.

JTaylor

So would you have been happy for Israel to have been invaded and wiped out by the Arabs? Should America and Great Britain have let that happen? What loyalty do you have to the Arabs?

tony de wonderful

Nobody fought for Israel in any wars and in 1948 they had just a few rifles virtually. The Soviets armed the Arabs through the cold war and yet you cry foul that America sent aid the Israel.

FWIW America sends aid to various Arab countries yet you only focus on Israel.

What the hell does that mean? More ideas which boil down to age-old Anti-Semitic paranoia about the Jews controlling everything?

Are you aware that Europe virtually funds the Palestinian authority?

What about the western left co-opting the Pallies as their clients?

The Jewish state was established by UN mandate to give self-determination to Jewish people, principally Jewish people in Muslim lands where Jewish self-determination was prohibited.

Does that sounds in principle the result of some nefarious conspiracy? Jewish self-determination seems so unreasonable to you?

dpb

Theres a huge amount of jewish self determinists who are more than unreasonable

The place is almost ungovernable !

JTaylor

Well, that's excellent, Hodgy, but let's see how these qualifications allow Bs to justify his deeply xenophobic comments regards Israel. You see, I get Team Islam's thing with the Jews, but here's a fella from Norn Iron who's neither republican nor loyalist, but, seemingly, has these deeply anti-Israel convictions. It can't be good, old-fashioned anti-Semitism as the gentleman has stated his antipathy for religious intolerance; I don't think he's an Islamist sympathiser; it can't simply be that he begrudges Israel's support from the US (surely he'd be equally scathing of Hamas who openly processed payments of $25k from the Hussein crime-family for the families of suicide-murderers); I'm not aware of Arabian blood coursing through his veins; the stuff about a global Jewish-cabal is, by your own admission on the other thread, the stuff of wishthinkers and nutjobs and Sinky's neither of those things, is he? No, as I said, my instinct is that it's an ignorant pose and I'll continue to think that until I'm proved wrong. I'll be proved wrong when Bs's argument (should he present one) stands up to scrutiny.