You must be an amazing clairvoyant or something Tony, you must win the lottery every week.

Why don't you explain your point, exactly why you won't take the bet, or just concede that I am right?

Won't kill you, we might even move this discussion on.

 

I am trying to bet with Tony that this won't happen and that Israel will get their way. He won't take my bet.

 

I agree with this point.

This backs up what I am saying though Tone, nothing will change, not unless Israel gets some humongous concessions out of the US first. Watch...

 

Please do.

 

Don't be obtuse.

You are trying to draw the conclusion - if Obama doesn't get his way - that he must be a Puppet of the Jewish Lobby.

I've pointed out that this conclusion is based on faulty logic.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_P...Elders_of_Zion

 

It doesn't back up what you are saying about Obama being a Puppet at all.

There are numerous examples of the US not getting its way. It's not had it's way in Pakistan, in Iraq, in Afghanistan.

Pirates still attack ships off the East coast of African etc, does that mean Obama is a puppet of the Pirates?

 

You get back in your box!

 

Coming from you, "Don't be obtuse" is utterly priceless. How many questions have you ducked and dived on on this thread alone?

So, if Obama doesn't get his way, why will that be, Mystic Meg?

Explain the faulty logic or admit to being a chicken. CLUCK CLUCK!!

 

I've explained in it previous posts on this thread.

No offense but you need a lesson in logic and reasoning.

Obama won't get his way overnight because both sides have differences which so far have proved irreconcilable.

If the US was the Puppet of Israel we wouldn't even be having this conversion. The Pallies would have been kicked out of the West Bank and Gaza and the conflict would have been resolved that way.

 

It's like explaining it to my three year old, correction, you are more difficult!

I'll type this slowly. If Obama and the Pirates were in talks together, as 'allies', (although the term 'allies' implies a two way relationship) and Obama was furnishing them with nice new pirate ships, faster than all of the merchant vessels going past Somalia at that time, then Obama asked them to stop being pirates and they said no, then your point might be valid.

Otherwise you are descending from obtuse to something worse.

Now come up with something sensible or leave this thread!

 

I have a plane to catch so my last post for now...this is better.

Didn't see your explanation, sorry if I missed it. What post number please?

Isn't there a UN resolution this this effect, about what Obama is asking Israel for? So what's the problem? We all obey UN resolutions don't we?

Who do you think will 'win', or compromise the least, as regards to their irreconcilable differences?

I am willing to bet that Israel will come out on top. Don't take my bet, but we will come back to this point when it happens.

By not taking my bet you obviously agree with me.

Speak tomorrow, wish me Bon Voyage!!

 

The US gives aid and arms to many countries. Are they all controlling the US as a 'Puppet'?

Is the US a Puppet of Turkey?

The PA also gets a huge amount of financial aid from the West (EU and US).

Do you actually know how much military aid Israel gets each year? It's not actually as much as you think, hence why much of their hardware is indigenous.

Given your belief that the US is Israels Puppet, then why has a resolution to the conflict not been imposed upon the Palestinians? I mean you have the worlds military superpower to force this solution on a few million.

Makes no sense.

 

Israels enemies have never obeyed any resolution right from when they first attacked. Obeying UN resolution is a luxury for those who don't have to sleep next to their gun at night.

Both sides have to compromise to get a long term solution, but the problem is so many people on the anti-Israel side have so much to loose if the Pallies agree peace. If the more secular/progressive Pally side agree to sign for peace then you can bet the Islamists etc will keep on the offense and places like Gaza will have to stay on Israeli lockdown and that keeps the conflict going.

 

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fraudulent, antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for achieving global domination."

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Hamas Covenant

"The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Hamas: "let's negotiate, it is nice and good yes, thank you-please."
Netanyahu:

 

I've answered all your questions already Tone, why don't you ask them again?

 

Which resolutions exactly? If so, what is good for the goose...

The Anti Israelis are actually concerned for the Palestinians Tony and their right to their own land. The pro Israelis are concerned about Israels 'right' to others' land.

There is a slight difference.

Simples!

 

I can go with that, looks spot on to me.

 

Hamas appropriating 'The Elders' or the imagined response of Netanyahu?

 

Looks like you have run out of argument.

 

It's totally insane, they actually believe this stuff!

The Islamic world seems really susceptible to conspiracy theories particularly anti-Semitic ones.

You can see more watered down versions in the lefty and Islamist ideas that the Jewish Lobby in the US somehow have the US government under their total control.

It's always this idea that a small cabal of jews are secretly running everything, in conspiracy etc to somehow subvert and do harm etc.

What it comes down to is a scapegoating narrative; blame Jews for our problems.

There are lots of lobbys etc in the US. Obama got most of his funding from secular interests etc and what finding he did get from Jewish people was from secularists.

 

Nice one TdW. This thread gets better and better. Keep going please, you are making me laugh if nothing else as not even you could really belevee all this crap

 

You should right a poem about their 'concern' for the Pallies, read it like a School Girl in assembly.

The pro-Palestinian side couldn't give a toss about the Pallies. The Arabs keep them locked up in refugee camps after all this time and deny them citizenship and rights etc. I'm talking Jordan, Syrian etc.

Gadaffi kicked them out of Libya and told them to walk home a few years ago.

Rich Arab states could have resettled them years ago just doesn't suit them to have the problem solved. Their elites use the Israelis to focus their populations anger and frustration on...to divert the blame from their own failings.

The Islamists exploit the conflict for their own political ends, and the euro left exploit the conflict to give themselves some relevance.

Believe me, the last thing they do is 'care' about the Pallies. It's just a pose.

 

And Israel and the pro Jewish West are all cuddly teddy bears with no agendas whatsoever and should be admired and left to live happily ever after as well as being given a yearly Nobel Peace prize....

Sorry I know that is bollocks but you started it!

 

All lobbies have agendas by definition.

But their are lots of lobbies and interests in the States.

 

good piece in the paper today re the reporting of the conflict

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...flict-coverage

Now comes hard evidence to support these views, gathered by Greg Philo and his Glasgow University Media Group, who have monitored and analysed four separate periods of BBC and ITN coverage between late 2000 and the spring of 2002. Bad News From Israel makes the scientifically based case that the main news and current affairs programmes - with the rare exception, usually on Channel 4 - are failing to tell us the real story and the reasons behind it. They use a distorted lens.

 

http://www.gwpda.org/1918p/samuel1921.html

League of Nations Report: 1921

I'll be asking questions in 48 hours.

 

It's a biased article, look at this:

The highlighted line would always be an opinion, there is nothing scientifically a 'cause or effect' about it.

If the BBC was reporting that, then they it would be reporting pro-Palestinian propaganda.

Typical Guardian tosh.

 

The article is written by

Tim Llewellyn who was BBC Middle East correspondent from 1976-80 and 1987-92

so what would he know

you keep beleiveing in fairies at the bottom of the garden - and it will all turn out OK in the end

 

He's saying the BBC should report the pro-Palestinian narrative, it's quite clear he is biased, just he shamefully veils this behind 'contextualization' and pseudo-scientific 'research'.