Their rollers always seemed pretty good to me.

I made 360/331 there on the lower boost.

Proper 330 converted cossies made 321.

Ians P1 made 290/259 I think - seems about spot on for a P1 with decent decat,induction and good Octane Booster.

 

@ john nobles i got 240.5bhp with 220 torque.
that was with a MY99 uk turbo, only mods being a backbox and k&n element.

spot on,

 

Mmmm... maybe a trip to TSL for a quick check then? But that will involve Trouser trying to sell me stuff... and can I resist for much longer? Especially if he gets the kettle out
Whether the figures are correct or not, I think the torque curve for mine must be the right shape as I have noticed a bit of a drop-off in acceleration at the top end. Not a complaint, just a bit of an observation, although I'd like to eventually get it a bit flatter without losing anything.
If the figs are 7% out, that would put mine bang on 215BHP - the one quoted by Subaru.
Scoobyskid, the graph goes up in those particular increments for mine because the graph is scaled to fit the paper. I'll bet they're different for some of the others.

[Edited by TonyG - 4/24/2002 9:55:43 AM]

 

Lizz,

So I assume when you took your car to TSL they checked the fuelling etc with an exhaust gas analyser?

A select monitor won't tell you if the car is overfuelling or not.

I know who I'd rather believe

 

Kevin
Craig
maybe the days you went the ROLLERS DIDN'T slip!!!

just my point1

Phil

 

just a thought what tyres you chaps running!
seems to be alot of dif figgers coming out of nobles!
try dif rr for comp.
steve

good pub talk though!

 

Phil,

If the rollers were slipping, the display would show a sharp incline in PAW figures.

Did they show the graphs?

If the graphs show a consistent smooth line, it would indicate there was no slippage.

 

I haven't got a problem with the Figures that Nobels rollers give - they are harsh and probably truthful.

Lets get this into perspective.

My car (HKS Racing Suction, HKS Racing front Pipe, HKS Hyper Dragger, HKS Sequential BOV) mate 315bhp and 289lb/ft at Power Engineering - WOW happy on the day - and more importantly so it won its class (i.e. breathing mods) by approx 18bhp over any other car. Incidently at also beat all the cars in stage 2 tune (breathing, mappable ecus such as link, unichip etc). That was the real stunner - but Dave Rannoch would only give me one trophey

All that proved (all figures aside) is that my car is very healthy and making good power in standard(ish) trim. It probably proves that some of the guys with mappable engine management have very conservative maps

I guess the dilema most tuners have is how close to the edge to take the map. If you map to the brink of det, maximum ignition advance and engine strength - you are going to get a quick car - hey - it may blow up in a few months but that should be expected.

A tuner has to make you car more powerful so as a customer you are happy with your purchase - but at the same time there needs to be an imposed limit by the mapper otherwise they would get a bad reputation of their cars blowing up left, right and center.

The figures Craig quoted for my car on the Nobel rollers are pretty much spot on. 292bhp and 259lbs/ft. Other STI spec cars make between 275-290 bhp - which is probably right.

I would be dreaming to think my P1 could gain 35bhp from an exhaust and filter - that is pure bull$#!+.

As for the P1 running motec - I'll do you an ECU exchange and 1500 pounds of your money and you'll instantly gain 15bhp - thats cheap tuning in my eyes.

Seriously though - I would get that P1 back to whoever mapped it and get them to refine what you have - you should at least be able to improve your torque curve and still stay within the safety levels required for the stock internals. What was the boost like on the car ???? let me guess - it tails off to about 1.0bar after 6000 RPM ????

Regards

Ian


[Edited by igratton - 4/25/2002 9:39:38 AM]

[Edited by igratton - 4/25/2002 9:44:51 AM]

 

Have TSL got a RR to check it leaning off at high rev in 5th ?

Lizzy, you can't check that kind of thing unless on full load, believe what you will, BANG maybe the answer.

Nobles is very acurate.

Standard FRST 130 made 131.

Martin Hadland 517 bhp made 520

etc etc, just because its accurate a lot of people scream.



http://www.derbyshire-rsoc.co.uk/rrday

 

Ian, you're right about the boost tailing of mate

Si

 

Simon,

this is typical of certain mappers - they'll clock the boost back down as you get close to the redline - saves the impending BOOM . Thats why the top-end power is pretty poor on your car. I imagine your torque curve is much better achieving its peak torque lower down that std.

With good fueling and stuff I reckon they should be able to hold higher boost to the redline.

My stock ECU seems to hold 1.2 until about 6500rpm. Get whoever did it to refine the map. You have to make a decision as to if you want reliability or power - you can't have both

I don't know anything about mapping ecus - but I do know that a tuner wouldn't want the reputation destroyed by a car blowing up and everyone on scoobynet finding out about it

Ian.

 

Craig & Dingy,

OK, the truth is I don't know who to believe, I've had so many different opinions from various people that I am just confused. The best advice seems to be that if the car feels right to drive, then forget what the rollers say and just enjoy it!

Dingy, 'BANG' Do you mean my car's going to blow up?????? If so, what do you think I should do?

Lizzy

[Edited by Lizzywizz - 4/25/2002 10:30:23 PM]

 

Ian, thanks for the advice - in the ideal world you would have the engine mapped so it was on the 'edge' producing maximum power, but if that was the case, the engine wouldn't last longer than a week probably

Lizzy, I know what you mean about lots of different opinions when it comes to tuning...there are lots of ways to go but which one is right for you? This will often depend on budget I suppose, but still I don't think that there is a right or wrong way. As long as any mods are reliable, and give the desired result for you.

Just my 2p's worth, having been down this route very recently.

Si

 

Lizzy, not saying your car will blow up, but you should listen to the People at Noble's ifs it to rich at the top, then you need it sorting, running to much fuel can damage the engine, such as borewash and oil contamination.

These sort of things you can't check unless under load, so unless it was checked on the road (private one) or the rollers the select monitor was probably not 100% correct.

Your CO's at the top where very high.

 

Should I get my fuelling checked as well then? Or can I afford to wait until the next service in July?

 

Hi,
My Fiesta acheived the 131BHP figures @ John Noble, two months earlier it acheived 129BHP @ PTS in Luton.
I believe IMHO that John Nobles Rollers are one of the most accurate around, Why?? Because they are brand new and standard figures mary to standard cars, can`t say fairer than that.
It seems whenever people get low figures on the Rollers they tend to blame the Rollers why dont you look at your car!
At the end of the day a Exhaust and a filter will not give you 50BHP which some disallusioned people think it will.
Also cars vary in performance from day to day, you have to take into consideration weather atmosphere fuel tyres etc etc etc.
Scooberators got 317BHP / 279Torgue, a UK spec scooby on the John Noble rollers, still think the rollers are underestimating?? Me thinks not!
Maybe its time for a re-match?? Then we can compare a few more figures including people who have made more than one visit.
Anyone interested???
O and as a matter of interest I have organised a FRST RR day in May so I will let you know how the figures compare to the owners claims!
Doc

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining (much), but I've got a standard MY00 and to get 'only' 202BHP when the quoted figure is 215BHP is a bit disappointing. If the loss in power is down to the engine running rich (which is what I was told up at John Noble), then I can accept that, and do something about it. Whatever the power on mine though, it in no way detracts from the main reason I shelled out my hard-earned cash - to drive it. As long as it continues to 'go' (and stop) then at the end of the day I'm happy.

 

Got the RST one this Sat, with a few Escort Cossies and MK 1 escorts.

 

Might have found out why mine was running rich (and losing top-end power) - check out 'What the heck is this?' under Drivetrain...

 

Fiesta RS Turbo day without a hitch, John Nobles is very accomodating, he even let one or two have another run for free AND checked their Speedo calibration!!!
The figures were pretty accurate, again one or two disgruntled people expecting more and achieving less.
Doc

 

Has anyone here (with a non-turbo) had the Unichip from Nobles yet?

Ive got a Pajero Evo and have been thinking about having this done, but just wanted to know peoples views on it first.

Appreciate any help (sorry its a bit off topic)

Cheers

Teri (Big Evo)

BTW - Salsa - how about russling up a few karters?

 

when for?????????

 

top.

just so ppl can compare figures when they come back from Noble.

 

Salsa are you trying to put a damper on this RR-Day ???????

 

LOL @ SCOOBERATOR

The only damper on your day would be if i ran my car

Put you all to shame i'm sure

Problem is, i don't want mechanics and technical people deciphering a load of stats about my car and then telling me if you don't spend 2 grand on a super dooper monitor thingy, just in case,it's gonna blow"

Mikey (Just playin' wid ya )

 

LOL @ SCOOBERATOR

The only damper on your day would be if i ran my car

Put you all to shame i'm sure

Problem is, i don't want mechanics and technical people deciphering a load of stats about my car and then telling me if you don't spend 2 grand on a super dooper monitor thingy, just in case,it's gonna blow"

Mikey (Just playin' wid ya )

 

scooberators
no...just don't get your hopes up. i went thinking i'll see 240+bhp.
they gave 232bhp.....last year at PE i had 235/217 tourqe and at well lane 230/215...PE i had a straight through CentrePipe...at well lane i didn't.

when i went to noble i had a ScoobySport DownPipe fitted...and i get 232bhp/200torque......something is wrong.

just didn't like the they didn't give any reasons for the figures all that the rollers don't lie!

how can a car with full de cat hav less torque and bhp than when i first went on a rr day with vertually standar car except a magnex back box?


will be interesting to see the figures you guys come away with.

Phil

 

Maybe your car was having a bad day? Dodgy/dirty fuel? Slipping on the rollers? Tyre pressure/atmosphere/temperature/Fueling etc etc
There are too many varients to list.
Why dont you come again and compare the figures, its the only way

 

Phil,

Would you rather have real figures or those that pamper your ego.

Or is that a daft question

 

Craig!!??!!??
just rub it in why don't you!!


Doc
i might just pop up!
btw
i was running Optimax for a good 6weeks b4 we went on the rollers and had a service the week b4!!