Sobering Thought!
10 December 1999, 04:58 PM
#31
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Lou,
I think a lot of us are sensitive on this BBS about purely coming out with the comment 'excess speed kills' without any attempt to put it into context. You are right - if a human head hits a windscreen at 50mph you're probably dead meat - whereas at 5mph you'll get a sore head - gross oversimplification I know. However, most of the government argument is precisely that 'excess speed kills' with no attempt to put it into context - that is what we all object to. As they then use this for draconian speed enforcement etc.
Speaking to a traffic policeman I know that they consider 'excess speed' to be a factor in many RTAs. But then education is surely a better way of reducing this rather than draconian enforcement and more effort made to weed out the really bad/inconsiderate drivers.
Dave
I think a lot of us are sensitive on this BBS about purely coming out with the comment 'excess speed kills' without any attempt to put it into context. You are right - if a human head hits a windscreen at 50mph you're probably dead meat - whereas at 5mph you'll get a sore head - gross oversimplification I know. However, most of the government argument is precisely that 'excess speed kills' with no attempt to put it into context - that is what we all object to. As they then use this for draconian speed enforcement etc.
Speaking to a traffic policeman I know that they consider 'excess speed' to be a factor in many RTAs. But then education is surely a better way of reducing this rather than draconian enforcement and more effort made to weed out the really bad/inconsiderate drivers.
Dave
10 December 1999, 05:04 PM
#32
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I have no problem with appropriate speed for appropriate conditions. But how do you legislate for that? The fact is that the vast majority of the population are just bog standard ordinary drivers with bog standard ordinary skills.
Where are these figures you speak of as I would like to examine them myself (I teach trauma medicine and it may be of use for further lectures)? Deaths, however, involving motorists are in the main caused by excessive speed in combination with a whole variety of other factors. Speed is the common denominator. "Speed Kills" reflects this fact.
Where are these figures you speak of as I would like to examine them myself (I teach trauma medicine and it may be of use for further lectures)? Deaths, however, involving motorists are in the main caused by excessive speed in combination with a whole variety of other factors. Speed is the common denominator. "Speed Kills" reflects this fact.
10 December 1999, 06:12 PM
#34
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Guys - guys this is turning into a bit of a debate! You've all made valid very valid points pros and cons for both sides.
In this country we have to observe the legislated speed limits - that is law. None of us can put our hands up and say we are 100% crystal clean on this.
I have also seen occasions where driving slowly (within the speed limits) can also be as dangerous as driving too fast -
It's not driving fast - but let's call it 'Driving with undue care & attention' that's what causes the accidents.
I know myself and Paul drive much better when we are driving 'fast / faster' because you are more alert, and tend to be more awake because you need your wits about you - Lou is right you can't legislate for this at all.
We all have to make a decisions appropriate for the moment and be prepared to take the consequences of our judgements - ie: getting a speeding fine 'if caught' or an accident - that could happen at 10mph / 20mph / 30mph -
none of us know what's round the corner.
When I learnt to drive in Canada the philosophy was 'Drive always leaving yourselve and 'OUT' never take anything for granted'. I've applied that philosophy for years and 'touch wood' it's worked - (so far I have not had an accident) except for driving into the river 2 days after I got my UK licence but that's another story....
In this country we have to observe the legislated speed limits - that is law. None of us can put our hands up and say we are 100% crystal clean on this.
I have also seen occasions where driving slowly (within the speed limits) can also be as dangerous as driving too fast -
It's not driving fast - but let's call it 'Driving with undue care & attention' that's what causes the accidents.
I know myself and Paul drive much better when we are driving 'fast / faster' because you are more alert, and tend to be more awake because you need your wits about you - Lou is right you can't legislate for this at all.
We all have to make a decisions appropriate for the moment and be prepared to take the consequences of our judgements - ie: getting a speeding fine 'if caught' or an accident - that could happen at 10mph / 20mph / 30mph -
none of us know what's round the corner.
When I learnt to drive in Canada the philosophy was 'Drive always leaving yourselve and 'OUT' never take anything for granted'. I've applied that philosophy for years and 'touch wood' it's worked - (so far I have not had an accident) except for driving into the river 2 days after I got my UK licence but that's another story....
11 December 1999, 04:24 AM
#35
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'Drive always leaving yourselve and 'OUT' never take anything for granted'
Care to translate that from Canadian to English? 'Cos I'm sure there's a serious message in there somewhere but I'm afraid I haven't a clue where it is.
Care to translate that from Canadian to English? 'Cos I'm sure there's a serious message in there somewhere but I'm afraid I haven't a clue where it is.
11 December 1999, 10:14 PM
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I'm sorry, you didn't understand - I'm not sure I really can explain it - it's I suppose anticipate - try and anticipate what the guy in front / next / behind / hidden obstacles / side roads - what might happen / what's around the next bend / leave yourselve room to maneouver - always try and think about the cicumstances for the situation you are in and what 'potentially' could happen - if the lorry suddenly pulled out - the guy in front fell asleep - the chap behind you decided not to brake - in a nutshell - it's keeping your wits about you I suppose - I'm afraid I can't do better than that - hope that goes some way to translate my north american lingo...
Sorry
Penni
Did you really have to be so aggressive about it?
Sorry
Penni
Did you really have to be so aggressive about it?
13 December 1999, 04:21 PM
#38
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BruceH,
Sounds like a slightly more general version of the Roadcraft Police Drivers Handbook's "Always be able to stop within your own lane in the distance you can see to be clear" or something VERY similar.
Penni,
I don't think bruce was being "aggressive", he may have been attempting a humerous reposte (which may have sounded a little rude). Sorry you took offence.
Moray
(part time human)
PS. How about a new SIDC comittee posting: "Club safety officer"?
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 13-12-1999).]
Sounds like a slightly more general version of the Roadcraft Police Drivers Handbook's "Always be able to stop within your own lane in the distance you can see to be clear" or something VERY similar.
Penni,
I don't think bruce was being "aggressive", he may have been attempting a humerous reposte (which may have sounded a little rude). Sorry you took offence.
Moray
(part time human)
PS. How about a new SIDC comittee posting: "Club safety officer"?
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 13-12-1999).]
13 December 1999, 04:39 PM
#39
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Very sound advice Penni. Light aircraft pilots are always taught to continually pick emergency landing spots as they fly along. Defensive driving courses likewise. I was taught this on the military and it has saved me from at least two serious accidents over the years.It should be something we do as second nature, but sadly most drivers are too switched off, or just don't have a security-conscious mindset. Or maybe, it's that 'It'll never happen to me' philosophy!
13 December 1999, 05:08 PM
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There is a lot of truth in some of these messages. We may all be great driver (I don't consider myself one yet) but the other guy more than likely is pants!!
I nearly found this out the hardway at the weekend. Travelling on a two mile dead straight road outside Newmarket in my little Porker, see a car at a junction, I back off and start to brake and low and behold he pulls outs. I still have to do the mother of emergency stops and pull over on the verge beside him to avoid hitting him.
The driver was a myopic 95-year-old who didn't see me at all.
What I am trying to say is adjust your speed to the potential dangers around you e.g. road conditions, junctions etc
Anyway stay safe
Mark
[This message has been edited by Mark Champion (edited 13-12-1999).]
I nearly found this out the hardway at the weekend. Travelling on a two mile dead straight road outside Newmarket in my little Porker, see a car at a junction, I back off and start to brake and low and behold he pulls outs. I still have to do the mother of emergency stops and pull over on the verge beside him to avoid hitting him.
The driver was a myopic 95-year-old who didn't see me at all.
What I am trying to say is adjust your speed to the potential dangers around you e.g. road conditions, junctions etc
Anyway stay safe
Mark
[This message has been edited by Mark Champion (edited 13-12-1999).]
14 December 1999, 12:45 AM
#42
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Don
Thank you for your response. I wish I could have translated what I was trying to say
'Leave yourself an OUT!' didn't come across very well. What you said is what I was trying to say.
Thanks
Penni
Where are your classes I would like to have some coaching.
Thank you for your response. I wish I could have translated what I was trying to say
'Leave yourself an OUT!' didn't come across very well. What you said is what I was trying to say.
Thanks
Penni
Where are your classes I would like to have some coaching.
14 December 1999, 12:09 PM
#44
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I agree with all above
I started my defensive driver training business ten years ago because a driver going the other way did a U-turn in the road without looking to see if there was someone coming.
I nearly died in the ensuing crash ( note this is not an accident!).
The really sad part about my business was that the clients who are the cause of the incidents were typical company car drivers who paid little attention to what was happening. They were the ones I wanted to get into driver training and who are still disinterested. They became the people who almost destroyed my will to do something useful.
I now have a business where the drivers I coach want to do something, they want to learn, they want to be better.
This is the right place to be. If I could have done something for the also rans it would have been a bonus. They are the people who kill. Not speed. Not fast cars. Not enthusiasts.
The bottom line is that we have to live with these inconsiderate, incapable and ignorant people.
Thus we have to be clever, we have to think for those who may not. We have to perform at a much higher level. We have to be masters of the art of driving. And, we have to do that within the constraints of the law that is often unfair (or at least uncompromising) in our eyes.
The law is changing to a state that it too cannot cope. The law is becoming an ***. The purpose of the law was to enforce good practice and yet it is fast becoming an income generator. An enforcer of dull practice.
I still have a passion for good practice, a practice of perfection, of poetry in motion where drivers count and where they count for others.
I started my defensive driver training business ten years ago because a driver going the other way did a U-turn in the road without looking to see if there was someone coming.
I nearly died in the ensuing crash ( note this is not an accident!).
The really sad part about my business was that the clients who are the cause of the incidents were typical company car drivers who paid little attention to what was happening. They were the ones I wanted to get into driver training and who are still disinterested. They became the people who almost destroyed my will to do something useful.
I now have a business where the drivers I coach want to do something, they want to learn, they want to be better.
This is the right place to be. If I could have done something for the also rans it would have been a bonus. They are the people who kill. Not speed. Not fast cars. Not enthusiasts.
The bottom line is that we have to live with these inconsiderate, incapable and ignorant people.
Thus we have to be clever, we have to think for those who may not. We have to perform at a much higher level. We have to be masters of the art of driving. And, we have to do that within the constraints of the law that is often unfair (or at least uncompromising) in our eyes.
The law is changing to a state that it too cannot cope. The law is becoming an ***. The purpose of the law was to enforce good practice and yet it is fast becoming an income generator. An enforcer of dull practice.
I still have a passion for good practice, a practice of perfection, of poetry in motion where drivers count and where they count for others.
14 December 1999, 02:34 PM
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I agree with the importance of anticipation, but when something that cannot be predicted such as a blowout occurs, the faster you are driving the more likely you are to have an accident.
Paul
Paul
14 December 1999, 06:10 PM
#47
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Ah... the Midlands is a bit far for me, particularly this weekend because of other stuff I have to do, but now I know I can sort something out and plan for it. Thanks for the info.
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