Problems with Subaru oil filters.
18 March 2011, 05:00 PM
#151
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So your engines moving parts are made of alloy?
Your crankshaft, piston rings, little end pins, oil pump rotors and drives, camshafts, cam followers and the various types of roller bearings are all made of alloy? I guess your cylinder bores are too? Are you sure?
Your crankshaft, piston rings, little end pins, oil pump rotors and drives, camshafts, cam followers and the various types of roller bearings are all made of alloy? I guess your cylinder bores are too? Are you sure?
18 March 2011, 05:04 PM
#153
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David
18 March 2011, 05:07 PM
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No need for the rolleyes David, you said there would not be any metal in the oil, so I wondered how it would get into the filter?
Ok, ignoring that slight error you made, lets all agree that the ferrous metal worn from the surfaces are indeed in the oil after all and that oil will transport them into contact with the filter media. I guess to ensure thats the last we see of it we need to know two things.
1) What is the physical size of said ferrous material.
2) What size will a said Subaru paper filter actually stop in its tracks.
Over to you David.
Ok, ignoring that slight error you made, lets all agree that the ferrous metal worn from the surfaces are indeed in the oil after all and that oil will transport them into contact with the filter media. I guess to ensure thats the last we see of it we need to know two things.
1) What is the physical size of said ferrous material.
2) What size will a said Subaru paper filter actually stop in its tracks.
Over to you David.
18 March 2011, 05:11 PM
#155
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That said, our last product has been made to their exact specification and is going to be put into testing by their analysis department to see if it will do exactly what they already know their filters wont. Lets see...
Last edited by Evolution Stu; 18 March 2011 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Fat Fingers....
18 March 2011, 05:15 PM
#156
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No need for the rolleyes David, you said there would not be any metal in the oil, so I wondered how it would get into the filter?
Ok, ignoring that slight error you made, lets all agree that the ferrous metal worn from the surfaces are indeed in the oil after all and that oil will transport them into contact with the filter media. I guess to ensure thats the last we see of it we need to know two things.
1) What is the physical size of said ferrous material.
2) What size will a said Subaru paper filter actually stop in its tracks.
Over to you David.
Ok, ignoring that slight error you made, lets all agree that the ferrous metal worn from the surfaces are indeed in the oil after all and that oil will transport them into contact with the filter media. I guess to ensure thats the last we see of it we need to know two things.
1) What is the physical size of said ferrous material.
2) What size will a said Subaru paper filter actually stop in its tracks.
Over to you David.
No 2; dunno - don't care
Getting bored now
You win, we must all go out and buy magnetic sump plugs immediately.
Keep selling them plugs Stu
18 March 2011, 05:38 PM
#158
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I didnt think a thread about oil filtration was going to be interesting, but this has turned out to be (1) educational, (2) very funny.
Im one of those people who wouldnt know if Im getting the right advice so threads like this are worth chatting/arguing your points about. As far as cars, Im a dumb-*** (give me a computer and I'll bore you to death) - keep up the good work guys, people like me NEED threads like this.
Im one of those people who wouldnt know if Im getting the right advice so threads like this are worth chatting/arguing your points about. As far as cars, Im a dumb-*** (give me a computer and I'll bore you to death) - keep up the good work guys, people like me NEED threads like this.
18 March 2011, 05:44 PM
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I haven't won anything as it wasn't a competition.
I wasnt going to reply as I am Admin on here and you are of course an IB Customer, however, this was a tricky one for me as I simply don't appreciate people bad mouthing my products or my customers for buying them. You suggesting my customers are "Plonkers" tipped the scales I am afraid.
As for me, I am not an idiot, I know as much if not more about modifying cars than 95% of people out there and as such I don't waste my time or my customers money selling things that don't actually do they job they are intended for.
The great news is, everyone reading this now has a more balanced view than before I entered it.
They know that:
So the community as a whole is a winner.
I wasnt going to reply as I am Admin on here and you are of course an IB Customer, however, this was a tricky one for me as I simply don't appreciate people bad mouthing my products or my customers for buying them. You suggesting my customers are "Plonkers" tipped the scales I am afraid.
As for me, I am not an idiot, I know as much if not more about modifying cars than 95% of people out there and as such I don't waste my time or my customers money selling things that don't actually do they job they are intended for.
The great news is, everyone reading this now has a more balanced view than before I entered it.
They know that:
- The worry over oil filters is a bit silly as you rightly say.
- The parts in your engine that wear out are not made of alloy at all.
- There IS metal in the oil.
So the community as a whole is a winner.
Last edited by Evolution Stu; 18 March 2011 at 05:47 PM.
18 March 2011, 05:57 PM
#161
How many Subarus are there out there in the world driving around? Most of them use the generic OE filter made for Subaru by whomever, that we are discussing here
There would be a huge epidemic of failed Subarus out there if the filter is as bad as you guys are making out. My local dealership has 6000 customers, many of whom have cars with that filter fitted. That part number is the same one for a Nissan Micra, there's more of them out there than Subarus. Usually the Japanese Subarus domestically use " Micro " brand filters, that as far as l know are made in Japan. Top quality stuff.
You may not like the way it looks, but better informed, brighter, Fuji Heavy tecchies are
happy with the spec. and it is not giving them trouble - WORLDWIDE.
Don't talk yourselves into a frenzy about something that doesn't need fixing.
David APi
There would be a huge epidemic of failed Subarus out there if the filter is as bad as you guys are making out. My local dealership has 6000 customers, many of whom have cars with that filter fitted. That part number is the same one for a Nissan Micra, there's more of them out there than Subarus. Usually the Japanese Subarus domestically use " Micro " brand filters, that as far as l know are made in Japan. Top quality stuff.
You may not like the way it looks, but better informed, brighter, Fuji Heavy tecchies are
happy with the spec. and it is not giving them trouble - WORLDWIDE.
Don't talk yourselves into a frenzy about something that doesn't need fixing.
David APi
You're probably right most people won't have a problem but the internals of the honeywell/fram filters look cheaply made to me and I'd certainly prefer the older style filter with metal end caps instead of glued on paper ones!
I've read a few posts (here and nasioc) on the P style gasket leaking, infact I've read about non subaru filters and people saying the only time they've had leaks were on the same design gasket. If it ain't broke and all that!
My personal feeling of these blue filters is that the quality is poor with the glued on paper ends, especially when nearly every other (even cheap) filter has sturdy metal ends. Looking at the construction I wouldn't be suprised if the bypass does a lot more 'bypassing' than it should when sealing against those ends.
It might never cause a problem, or the glued ends might fail and pump a lump of glue down a vital oil way. The fact that people have had fram filters fail in this exact way means I'd rather not use them. If I can remove as much chance (and yes it might be slim) of potential problems from my car then I'll do so.
If you want to use cheaply made poor quality products that's up to you.
Also, your other narky post about the magnets (and no I don't use one) isn't quite right as the idea is to remove the very fine non filterable particals (from all the engine wear componenets that are magnetic) from the oil to stop it accelerating wear on other components such as the big end bearings. Whether this has enough of a positive effect or not is debatable but it sure as hell can't do any harm.
18 March 2011, 06:02 PM
#162
I tend to read stuff on the net and do a bit of research, weed out the ****e and make my own mind up (Regarding your other condescending post about people on forums not knowing what they are on about)
You're probably right most people won't have a problem but the internals of the honeywell/fram filters look cheaply made to me and I'd certainly prefer the older style filter with metal end caps instead of glued on paper ones!
I've read a few posts (here and nasioc) on the P style gasket leaking, infact I've read about non subaru filters and people saying the only time they've had leaks were on the same design gasket. If it ain't broke and all that!
My personal feeling of these blue filters is that the quality is poor with the glued on paper ends, especially when nearly every other (even cheap) filter has sturdy metal ends. Looking at the construction I wouldn't be suprised if the bypass does a lot more 'bypassing' than it should when sealing against those ends.
It might never cause a problem, or the glued ends might fail and pump a lump of glue down a vital oil way. The fact that people have had fram filters fail in this exact way means I'd rather not use them. If I can remove as much chance (and yes it might be slim) of potential problems from my car then I'll do so.
If you want to use cheaply made poor quality products that's up to you.
Also, your other narky post about the magnets (and no I don't use one) isn't quite right as the idea is to remove the very fine non filterable particals (from all the engine wear componenets that are magnetic) from the oil to stop it accelerating wear on other components such as the big end bearings. Whether this has enough of a positive effect or not is debatable but it sure as hell can't do any harm.
You're probably right most people won't have a problem but the internals of the honeywell/fram filters look cheaply made to me and I'd certainly prefer the older style filter with metal end caps instead of glued on paper ones!
I've read a few posts (here and nasioc) on the P style gasket leaking, infact I've read about non subaru filters and people saying the only time they've had leaks were on the same design gasket. If it ain't broke and all that!
My personal feeling of these blue filters is that the quality is poor with the glued on paper ends, especially when nearly every other (even cheap) filter has sturdy metal ends. Looking at the construction I wouldn't be suprised if the bypass does a lot more 'bypassing' than it should when sealing against those ends.
It might never cause a problem, or the glued ends might fail and pump a lump of glue down a vital oil way. The fact that people have had fram filters fail in this exact way means I'd rather not use them. If I can remove as much chance (and yes it might be slim) of potential problems from my car then I'll do so.
If you want to use cheaply made poor quality products that's up to you.
Also, your other narky post about the magnets (and no I don't use one) isn't quite right as the idea is to remove the very fine non filterable particals (from all the engine wear componenets that are magnetic) from the oil to stop it accelerating wear on other components such as the big end bearings. Whether this has enough of a positive effect or not is debatable but it sure as hell can't do any harm.
I am not going to spend 5k on an engine then stick on a crap oil filter, I am going to get the best available even if I have to spend a few more pounds!
18 March 2011, 06:03 PM
#163
I tend to read stuff on the net and do a bit of research, weed out the ****e and make my own mind up (Regarding your other condescending post about people on forums not knowing what they are on about)
You're probably right most people won't have a problem but the internals of the honeywell/fram filters look cheaply made to me and I'd certainly prefer the older style filter with metal end caps instead of glued on paper ones!
I've read a few posts (here and nasioc) on the P style gasket leaking, infact I've read about non subaru filters and people saying the only time they've had leaks were on the same design gasket. If it ain't broke and all that!
My personal feeling of these blue filters is that the quality is poor with the glued on paper ends, especially when nearly every other (even cheap) filter has sturdy metal ends. Looking at the construction I wouldn't be suprised if the bypass does a lot more 'bypassing' than it should when sealing against those ends.
It might never cause a problem, or the glued ends might fail and pump a lump of glue down a vital oil way. The fact that people have had fram filters fail in this exact way means I'd rather not use them. If I can remove as much chance (and yes it might be slim) of potential problems from my car then I'll do so.
If you want to use cheaply made poor quality products that's up to you.
Also, your other narky post about the magnets (and no I don't use one) isn't quite right as the idea is to remove the very fine non filterable particals (from all the engine wear componenets that are magnetic) from the oil to stop it accelerating wear on other components such as the big end bearings. Whether this has enough of a positive effect or not is debatable but it sure as hell can't do any harm.
You're probably right most people won't have a problem but the internals of the honeywell/fram filters look cheaply made to me and I'd certainly prefer the older style filter with metal end caps instead of glued on paper ones!
I've read a few posts (here and nasioc) on the P style gasket leaking, infact I've read about non subaru filters and people saying the only time they've had leaks were on the same design gasket. If it ain't broke and all that!
My personal feeling of these blue filters is that the quality is poor with the glued on paper ends, especially when nearly every other (even cheap) filter has sturdy metal ends. Looking at the construction I wouldn't be suprised if the bypass does a lot more 'bypassing' than it should when sealing against those ends.
It might never cause a problem, or the glued ends might fail and pump a lump of glue down a vital oil way. The fact that people have had fram filters fail in this exact way means I'd rather not use them. If I can remove as much chance (and yes it might be slim) of potential problems from my car then I'll do so.
If you want to use cheaply made poor quality products that's up to you.
Also, your other narky post about the magnets (and no I don't use one) isn't quite right as the idea is to remove the very fine non filterable particals (from all the engine wear componenets that are magnetic) from the oil to stop it accelerating wear on other components such as the big end bearings. Whether this has enough of a positive effect or not is debatable but it sure as hell can't do any harm.
18 March 2011, 08:39 PM
#166
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Am I right in thinking that any metal particles picked up in the oil travel "in the engine" until they return to the sump. So if the engine is running, the metal bits are in suspension and will be carried from the sump to the filter where they will hopefully be held in the filter. Only when the engine is stopped will the oil and and unfiltered metal particles will stop in the sump where the metal particles will sink, hopefully to be attracted (if ferrous) to the magnetic drain plug.
So it seems to me there is only a limited purpose to a magnetic drain plug.
In the "old" days, you could get some worrying visible bits of metal on the magnetic drain plug, but in the last 20 or so years I can't remember seeing any metal bits on magnetic drain plugs.
Why should I invest in a super power magnetic drain plug Stu ?
So it seems to me there is only a limited purpose to a magnetic drain plug.
In the "old" days, you could get some worrying visible bits of metal on the magnetic drain plug, but in the last 20 or so years I can't remember seeing any metal bits on magnetic drain plugs.
Why should I invest in a super power magnetic drain plug Stu ?
18 March 2011, 08:45 PM
#167
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I think it depends on the application, the military have gone mainly diesel from when I was in back in the mid 80's where they still had series 3 landrovers (though they were iron sump etc), those are all diesel now so heavier iron block engines, same with the trucks, iron as we know is magnetic, alloy as we know isnt, so in an all alloy engine the application is irrelevant, on a diesel iron engine then it is 
If you get bits of metal sticking to a magnetic drain plug in a fully alloy engine then you should be worrying (as David has said), if its your crank then your going to be spending the cash
Tony
If you get bits of metal sticking to a magnetic drain plug in a fully alloy engine then you should be worrying (as David has said), if its your crank then your going to be spending the cash
Tony
18 March 2011, 09:22 PM
#171
looking at the other thread about the old black filter.....it appears that the main differences are metal end caps and stronger paper........so how important are these factors?
obviously subaru think that paper end caps are fine and do the job,or....do subaru not give a **** and are just trying to make extra cash everywhere they can? no disrespect to subaru but the way the whole of the uk and world are these days are all trying to cut corners as unfortunetely people are getting too greedy and/or finding it harder to make a living,the blue filter maybe fine but im inclined to go with the latter.
the quality dosent look very good imo.
although there are not any reports of the blue filter causing any s**t at the moment,whats to say its only a matter of time......or not?
its a funny old debate but i will be trying to find the best quality oil filter to use,maybe we should all chip in and buy every different oil filter on the market and cut them all up?
obviously subaru think that paper end caps are fine and do the job,or....do subaru not give a **** and are just trying to make extra cash everywhere they can? no disrespect to subaru but the way the whole of the uk and world are these days are all trying to cut corners as unfortunetely people are getting too greedy and/or finding it harder to make a living,the blue filter maybe fine but im inclined to go with the latter.
the quality dosent look very good imo.
although there are not any reports of the blue filter causing any s**t at the moment,whats to say its only a matter of time......or not?
its a funny old debate but i will be trying to find the best quality oil filter to use,maybe we should all chip in and buy every different oil filter on the market and cut them all up?
18 March 2011, 10:34 PM
#175
I fit these Blue ones day in day out at work, we've had two fail and **** oil all over the headers, yes they look a little cheap around the threaded area. Personally I wouldnt use the blue one, I've got a stash of the Old style black ones in my tool box for my own car & when those run out It'll be a K&N one going on. Just Personal Opinions here guys
18 March 2011, 10:38 PM
#176
I fit these Blue ones day in day out at work, we've had two fail and **** oil all over the headers, yes they look a little cheap around the threaded area. Personally I wouldnt use the blue one, I've got a stash of the Old style black ones in my tool box for my own car & when those run out It'll be a K&N one going on. Just Personal Opinions here guys
18 March 2011, 10:52 PM
#177
Thats Like asking the same question, How do we know the blueprint ones are any good.
Like I said the only issue we've had was with the seals popping out and the threads look very dodgy indeed. the K&N one looks a little better finished off in that department, Thats all thats concerning me to be fair. The filter's only on my car for 3000 miles at a time anyhow
18 March 2011, 11:18 PM
#178
I fit these Blue ones day in day out at work, we've had two fail and **** oil all over the headers, yes they look a little cheap around the threaded area. Personally I wouldnt use the blue one, I've got a stash of the Old style black ones in my tool box for my own car & when those run out It'll be a K&N one going on. Just Personal Opinions here guys
18 March 2011, 11:29 PM
#179
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As mentioned and ive not seen a reply to it but whats the deal with the pink STi ones? Are these knocked out the same factory? any reason why should fit one of them over another?
18 March 2011, 11:38 PM
#180
Part HP-1008 Product Specifications
Product Style: Oil Filters
Height: 2.86 in (73 mm)
Outside Diameter: 2.69 in (68 mm)
Thread Inside Diameter: M20 x 1.5
PSI Relief Valve: 11-17
Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes
Style: Canister
Removal Nut: Yes
Gasket Material: Nitrile Rubber
Filter Material: High Flow Premium Media
Bypass Valve: Yes
Weight: 0.5 lb (0.23 kg)
Product Box Length: 3.16 in (80 mm)
Product Box Width: 3.16 in (80 mm)
Product Box Height: 3.63 in (92 mm)