Talking of irony!!! You actually watching and believing anything you see on Al Jazeera LOL!

I would have mentioned them, but didn't think they would figure on your far right laden radar.

Their analysis is that the unrest from the Arab world and the Russians and Chineses is even geater than the picture painted on the pro-West BBC/Sky etc. So what's your diffculty in understanding the ensuing mess?

No need to answer as the dense comment earlier covers that!

 

Jeez, and to think some people on this thread reckon it isn't costing us much at all What a f**king mess!

 

isn't that the problem (as seen by the target audience), we rightly complain about islamification.

a fine line to tread and can be seen as cultural imperialism.

 

Don't forget the Jerusalem Post.

 

Yes, I'd go with that, but I support secular liberal democracy and wish to see it spread to our neighbours. I find totalitarianism and dictatorship an afront to humanity and feel and think that we and our allies should continue to support those who are calling for progression and reform. As I've said time and again, it's about picking sides - universal suffrage and freedom of conscience are principles in which I deeply believe. I know which side I'm on.

 

You're on the cusp of Godwin's, f1.

 

Whatever you say 'Brains' Not my fault if the truth hurts!!

 

I have tried to get this back on topic, but the content of my post didn't agree with NSR's resident 'cut and paste' king so if someone else would like to join in and contribute to the subject matter be my guest.

 

and along side, fair and equal representation before a democratic parliament/law is the elephant in the room, which is poverty and unequal access to and benefit from a countries resources.

And the problem is the west have no interesting in solving that problem, so the democratisation project will inevitably fail

 

Ok,here goes,,,,,,we need bigger bombs.

 

What's his legitimacy based upon then?

He was certainly not elected by anyone.

I'm talking about the now.

 

LOL Press TV.

The western 'journalists' working for it should be ashamed.

Al Jazzera seems to be very good at getting reporters on the ground, very good indeed. However I don't like the slant they try and put on things, some of the opinion pieces they present on their website are absolutely terrible. However as they balance the authoritarian state news in the Arab world I suppose it is not surprising, it's the tendency to lowest common denominator 'arab street' thinking which is reprehensible.

 

Which absolutely needs to be addressed and is at the heart of NA and ME uprisings.

On the contrary, we are desperate to solve that problem in order to give democracy the best possible chance of success. The empowerment of women, education, wealth generation, secularism and fair representation leads to peace.

The Western model is successful and the young people of Tunisia, Egypt, Lybia, Morroco and Algeria want it to be part of their future; it's almost as if they can see across the Med. Ataturk had the vision in the early 20s and that country's gone from strength to strength.

 

But if you want an Iranian perspective......

 

and then...a few days later...

 

if we a desperate to solve it --- why do we sell arms to all these despots

 

It's a fair question and certainly presents an ethical dilema. We've revoked the export licences for Bahrain and Libya and guess that we'll look at other situations country by country.

The harsh reality is that the huge demand for arms amongst countries who wish to defend themselves will be met by someone. The only way we can ensure that we can achieve absolute ethicacy on this is to completely withdraw from arms exports.

According to BAE, defence exports were worth £7.2 billion in 2009, we're the largest exporter to the EU, the largest exporter to the US and the industry supports 300,000 jobs.

So, it comes down to a choice between a huge negative economic impact at home that leaves a gap in the market for another nation to fill whilst being able to claim moral authority or adopting a pragmatic approach and accepting the inevitable criticism everytime a conflict ensues.

Which do you choose?

 

What do you mean?

 

Jt> i think if you do the homework France and Germany then us on the defence exports

I could be wrong.

 

well the harsh reality is that the west (and by implications the US) cannot deal with poverty in their own countries, what chance the rest of the world

A crazy statistic I read the other day is that between the years of 2000 and 2007, 57% of the additional wealth created in America went to the top 1% of the population.

that is unsustainable


GlesgaKiss - in my view poverty/inequality is a massive contributury factor in these recent uprisings, its that simple. It breads corruption and chronyism

 

True, but that is surely the effect of such a political system... that it will produce inequalities like that? That's why people are so against it.

 

Thinking about it, but please continue, I am enjoying this.

Asif

 

 

Please continue F1, this is too much fun!

 

yes -- i suppose it is one of the big questions of the age GlesgaKiss, and probably too big a subject for me to air my views on

 

To the EU and to the US.

 

Sure, but we were discussing the arms trade and I answered your question. Do you care to answer mine? Which do you choose?

 

How's the fence? Comfortable? Good view?

 

Marx and Engels are your men.