johnfelstead

Someone (i wont mention) offered to buy me membership about 1 year ago for the help i had given them but i refused. That was pretty dumb of me now wasn't it!

chins. dont misunderstand me, the SIDC has a huge amount to offer people, i just never felt the urge to do something about it till January. Just a personal thing.

igratton

Wow

Its a real shame this situation has arrisen. I've known JF for just over two and a 1/2 years now and consider him to be a true friend...I guess if you like one of the 'old school' from when I first started out with imprezas and track work. We are lucky as a comunity to have his techincal and theoretical knowledge...but its not just JF...there are others too.

This bulletin board allows such friendships to grow in a way that is just not possible in any other way due to folks being dotted all over the country (and the rest of the world for that mater).

These trackdays seem to be one of the ways whereby such people get together and meet up...to enjoy time out on the track and to have a good chin-wag etc.

I guess we are all pretty responsible people or we wouldn't attend trackdays in the first place. Its been said 1000s of times before but it is simply the safest environment (for drivers and spectators alike) to enjoy high-performance cars.

Sure...some of the cars have significantly higher power-to-weight ratios than imprezas..and yes...they are very fast. But is that really an issue. It is <B>every</B> drivers responsibility to watch what is happening in front and behide their car to ensure overtaking is as safe as possible.

I appreciate that the SIDC is a motorsport club which exists primarily for Subaru Impreza drivers...and I'm glad it exists...I've been a member now for 3 years. Sure, as the club grows...more members are eager to get their cars onto the track...to learn...to enhance their driving abilities...and hopefully at the same time becoming a safer, more thoughtful driver. I have learnt more than I could ever imagine from these days...and the learning process never ends.

Part of the fun of trackdays for me is the mixed bag of cars that partake. I think drivers find it interesting (or at least I do ) to discover how their own cars compare with what else is on the track, talking to drivers, taking notice and learning from what they have to say.

But the problem will continue to grow as the demand for trackdays increases. Regardless of if you own an Impreza...I think they will become massively oversubscribed. These venues are already busy due to the typical Motorsport calendar.

But this isn't specifically about John, its all the other people who are SIDC members with other cars (Fords, Hondas, Nissans, Mitsubishi etc)...I'll sure miss you all if the decision is held.

Maybe Simon De Banke (and specifically scoobynet) could look into arranging days which cater for a wider range of cars.

Anyway, I've said what I think I need to say. This isn't a dig at anyone...just a simple observation.

I hope to see you all again soon. Be it at an SIDC event or otherwise.

Regards

Ian.

[This message has been edited by igratton (edited 19 March 2001).]

Pete Croney

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>I have not spoken to Pete personally, but its pretty obvious to me who he was refering to in the article. Or am i being paranoid?

[/quote]

John

I don't want to debate this on here, as the descision was a Committee one and it would need all of us to agree on a post each time.

With regard to my article, the car I was thinking of when I wrote Pace Notes was the "Mazda" race car at Cadwell. It can be seen in Scoobytrax performing what was obviously safe manoeuvre in the driver's mind, bearing in mind his power advantage, but was unacceptable for everyone else on the track. I am sorry if I gave you, and others, the impression that I was refering specifically to you.

To put this whole point into perspective, how many Impreza owners would want to go and do a Mazda MX5 track day? Would it be safe screaming past these cars at 50mph more than their speed? Would you get frustrated following a line of them, knowing you could easily just nip down the inside?

There are many members mentioned here that have been in the SIDC for years. MikeR, Blow Dog, Hunty, Steve Procter and Chins spring to mind instantly. The timing of the cut off was meant to enable people that have supported the club since its early days to be able to continue to feel welcome.

But any descision would adversely affect some. Be it the new members who have joined for cheap track access, or the Impreza ownering members who feel that they would be intimidated by sharing a track with much more powerful cars.

I agree that this topic should be discussed at the AGM. The SIDC Committee feel they have taken action which will ensure that Impreza owners, new and old, are encouraged to experience their cars on track days.

At the AGM, it will be for the members to decide whether we remain the SIDC or become, as mentioned above, The Cheap Track Day Owners Club.

With the plethora of corporate track days available for owners of exotica, I hope we can retain cheap, safe, relaxed and intuitive track days for Impreza drivers.

johnfelstead

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>as I've already said several times, this affects NO events that the SIDC currently has booked, bar the ones at BHLG circuits<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now i am really confused? Are you saying that i wont be put on a reserve list Stef because the true grip article clearly states i will be?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>This subject will be discussed fully at the next agm, and a solution will hopefully be agreed by all then. Pete's statement is simply an interim measure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where does it say in the article this is an interim measure? doesnt read like that to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>If you read it properly he was actually referring to the 500bhp/ton fibre glass cars you find at commercial track days, not SIDC ones<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does not compute Stef? I know of only one other 500BHP/tonne car to ever attend a track day with any subaru presence, and that is a westfield V8 owned by john who runs corporate motorsport. The issue is about SIDC days and the fact that it is stated that on these days it is unsafe for cars like mine to be in attendance unless of course you are short on numbers, then its perfectly safe. Very strange reasoning not based on fact.

I am sure the Majority of people who read True Grip will be thinking about me when they see a car of 500BHP/Tonne mentioned.

I dont want this to deteriorate into a slanging match because that achieves nothing. I simply felt i had to comment because in most peoples eyes the article refers to me, even if that wasnt the intent, thats the way it will be read. I will question anything that does not stack up to simple logic, thats the way my brain works, the statement re safety does not stand up to scrutiny.

Can i just have a simple yes or no answer please, do i go on the reserve list or not?

Anders

Now you just leave Stef alone

John if the worst comes to the worst you can always drive my 22B

CraigH

One thing springs to mind here. The comment about vastly more powerful cars not being fun, safe etc etc.

3 instantly spring to mind. JohnF, Dingy and MikeR.

With the exception of Mike, the other 2 haven't caused any stoppages, incidences etc etc. Mike a couple, but not as many as a lot of Impreza drivers. Nor are they intimidating on track. Their track etiquette is probably the best overall - how often do you hear complaints that Mr XYZ in an Impreza was a complete 4ss?

That half covers safe - but the other half is the intimidation factor. There are certain Impreza drivers out there who are perhaps the most intimidating drivers on track. The way the come up to you under braking, weaving all over the place, stick to your bumper thru corners cos your slower than them etc etc. Again, this doesn't happen, certainly with the above 3.

As far as fun goes - I'd say 95% of track goers, LOVE to have cars like this there. sometimes that's the only reason they go - then they get the benefit of seeing what Scoobs can do at the same time and get introduced to our community.

I do understand that the SIDC is an Impreza drivers club - it just seems some of the reasons for these actions have no weight to them.

As for Scoobynet doing trackdays - that'd be superb. Only thing is, I could almost see it killing SIDC trackdays off, as most people seem to want a mixed bag at circuits.

robski

When I read the article I immediately thought of John, it must be said.

If it was a general comment it should have been general. Mike Rainbows car must be getting closer to 500BHP/ton all the time.
Especially once he admits what BHP it is.

Lets face it, whats more likely to cause a problem, experienced drivers in different cars or mixed skills in similar powered cars?
its bloody obvious to me.

And lets face it, not all imprezas are equal are they. Take my bog std MY99, its going to be a little different to so may other imprezas on here, just for example Stef or CraigH, or Moray!

Yes the SIDC is an impreza club, you cannot argue against that, but a little diversity helps, and people like MikeR and John are genuine top people, owning an impreza doesnt automatically make you one does it!

I think the Scoobynet track day idea is top. Maybe the days of the SIDC are numbered, and it should be re-launched as the scoobynet club? Controversial I know!!

robski

RonaldoH

Felstead Rocks.
Blowdog Rocks
Dingy (never met him, but his car rocks)
they all rock

In a years time when the MY01 is the daddy people will say oh look its the "toyota corrola" driving club at Brands. Except if Pete Croney gets to do the mods on em all

Its a pity. John, you can use my scoob on track if you want mate. The things ****e slow and dont go anywhere and never done a track day. Its yours mate as long as you fix it if it breaks.

Rocket "not taken his SIDC'd scoob on track yet" because I know I would kill myself.

Markus

hmm, must go home and re-read TG as I've missed this bit in it!

I'm a track virgin, but that might change this year. My personal take on this is that SIDC has to be for scooby owners first, as that's what it was created for. Think the problem is with BHLG wanted to make more money and to do this they stipulate the 'one make only' trackday situation, which, obviously, effects SIDC. As Stef has said, there are not many/no current SIDC events that this BHLG thing will effect, however, we don't have a event callender for 2002, where, no doubt, this problem will occur, thus, in my eyes, SIDC is pre-empting the situation.

Must say that whilst spectating at BH last year it was good to see the EVO's and the exiege(sp?) mixing it with the scoobs, gives us a good idea of the 'competition'

Think that this point might come up at the next AGM (must dust of the burger king hat! ) But don't think anything will change.

just my 2 cents worth.

johnfelstead

Thanks for that Pete but it doesn't answer my question.

The Article in true grip excludes me from attending SIDC track days on a first come first served basis.

Stef's comments confuse the situation.

Can i have a plain and simple answer as to where the club stands with me?

I joined the club to obtain all the benefits, including track day attendance. Last years track events were thin on the ground re SIDC days. I was very pleased to see Stef putting more time into this to get more days organised, thats why i felt it worthwhile to join the club.

I didnt join the SIDC to get "Cheep" track days. You are no cheeper than the prices Donington charge for their own Track Zone days.

I joined to enable me to enjoy the experience of being on track with relatively safe drivers who respect their equipment (i also like the people). I can afford to do non SIDC days at the more expensive events, money isnt the issue here.

I didnt like the logic re safety in the article because it doesnt make sense. From your comments it wasnt aimed at me but it certainly read that way.

Putting that aside, i am a fully paid up member of the SIDC, i expect to recieve the benefits i paid for. Changing the goal posts after i have entered into a contract with the club for 12 months isnt justifiable in my eyes. It certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

I understand that at BHLG circuits your hands are tied, i dont dispute this, but at the other tracks i do not see why you have made a retrospective change in my membership benefits.

So, can i have a simple yes/no answer please.
Do i recieve the benefits i paid for in full or do i now automatically go on the reserve list?

taz

Just to throw a small spanner in the works. I dirve an Impreza that also has the disadvantage that you are talking about above. I have a 97 sport with just over 130 bhp. I noticed there were no other sports at the track day never mind on the track but if you are talking about differences inn power then are you going to stop people with sports getting on the track and enjoying themselves. I am currently thinking about joining the club and as another article in the True Grip states your sport drivers are not getting involved. Could this be down to the club being geared towards turbo drivers. I would like to take my sport on the track and I think the car is capable of keeping up with some turbo's, on the twisty bits anyway. i agree that the club should be letting other cars in so we can judge how the car is doing as after all it is a test of the cars performance. I also think that if you decide to take out the non Impreza's from Knockhill then it would turn out a lot more expensive for the ones who are on track. Take away the Elises,exige, evo@s, solitary RS and a couple of Fiats and you don't have many Impreza's left to split the cost of the day and it will increase in costs.

Hope we can resolve this as I am new to SIDC and looked forward to making as many friends as possible.

Taz.

Hoppy

I think we all enjoy a variety of cars on track days, and it's not the fast ones that are a problem, it's the slow ones!

Having said that, I think that the SIDC have no choice but to restrict non-Scoobs (though perhaps not for the reasons given).

While other makes of car at SIDC track days is a relatively minor issue now, it will soon become a big problem when lots of Scoob-driving SIDC members are turned away from a track day because it's over-subscribed with other makes. That will happen next year for sure and the SIDC is the Subaru Impreza Drivers Club. If you ain't got a Scoob, then why are you a member?

But, but, but...!!!

We have a real community here, and being a member of ScoobyNet has changed my life for the better. Yes, most of us drive Imprezas (coz they're better than Evos ) but what bonds the community is the kindred spirit that runs amongst us. We all love fast cars and track days are the ultimate expression of that passion! ScoobyNet already welcomes drivers of other cars, and in other countries, too. The more the merrier, I say.

Webmaster Simon de Banke has come up with the obvious solution - ScoobyNet Track Days. YES PLEASE, SIMON. First come first served and the more Cosworths I get to beat the better!

Where's the problem with that?

Richard Hopkins

Pete Croney

John

The answer is that all members wishing to use cars other than Imprezas at (non BHLG) SIDC track days, who were not members last "club" year, will have to allow priority of allocation to be given to Impreza owning SIDC members.

johnfelstead

Thanks Pete, so long SIDC track days.

I expect a refund in the post as i am not getting what i paid for.

By the way, i am an Impreza owning member, i just dont want to use that car on track, i built something else for that purpose.

Thanks for all the offers of cars to drive i recieved, i am quite overwelmed by the response.

I wont take you up on the offer because i dont push other peoples cars to the limit (plus i am a stickler for being 100% insured if it all goes pear shaped) and i go on track to get satisfaction from driving something very challenging at my limits.

One very sad track and Subaru enthusiast.

P.S i suggest you change the

DavidLewis

With Pete's clarification in mind, it will always be a shame not to see John and his westie at SIDC trackdays. BUT, I still think this decision was made in the best interests of Subaru Impreza Drivers (though I hoped John would be classified as such)

I dont agree with the comments that things will turn into a procession as the varying standards of drivers ability matched to the varying levels of modifications on the cars themselves will always make things 'interesting' but I will miss the opportunity to 'reel in' a Nissan Skyline or follow a TVR with is tail wagging wildly while trying to keep in front (or watch Dingys sideways antics in the Melbourne Hairpin) This wont, however, stop me enjoying SIDC run days.

Scoobynet trackdays? Now thats an excellent idea. If they are as cheap and well run as SIDC ones, I'd be there.

Blow Dog

I am quite fortunate in that I have been a member since early 99, so luckily I am exluded from the new rulings.

One thing that does interest me, however, is who are these voices of discontent? It seems that this issue was made apparent by a number of people who had trouble joining track days, however, they seem to be rather quiet out here?

Cem

(waiting for AGM for a definitive answer, I am sure you guys have a lot to discuss till then )

simon_prickett

I tend to do airfield days through Easytrack

Mike Rainbird

John,
I can't see how you thought Pete was referring to your car, as you would need to have at least 375bhp to get anywhere near 500bhp per ton - which it got nowhere near on the PS rollers...

Personally, I can see why they did this to a certain extent, but can't see what all the fuss is about from the non-Scooby owning lot. This maybe because I persued the line of enquiry with the relevant people from the outset to establish how this would affect me personally. Whereby I had it explained to me that it would be open to just Subaru owning SIDC members to book first and although no time period was laid in concrete, it was intimated that they would be given priority of a matter of weeks. After that date it would be open to the non-Scooby owning members to book freely. Accordingly, the way I was lead to believe was that I could put my name forward as early as I liked, but I would not be confirmed as having a space until a few weeks after the anouncement of the track day (to give the others a sporting chance of booking first and going on). Obviously this would work along the basis that if out of the 75 spaces (example), after the alloted time frame had passed and there were still spaces left, my name would automatically go down. It would not be left so that I would only know at the last minute, I would obviously know well in advance. In fact within a few weeks of the date being announced.

The ONLY problem I could foresee with this situation is that if all 75 spaces were booked up within the few weeks and there were Scooby reserves as well with me being say the sixth reserve. It would then be my choice as to whether or not to take the chance of there being a space or not on the day and going along. Other than this scenario happening, I can't see it being much different to the normal set up, the only difference being that the SIDC Scooby owners get a few weeks extra time to book above myself....

Obviously, this is only relevant if this is the true situation and I aren't talking bollix as usual... But this is how it was explained to me. From this basis, I am therefore surprised at why Steve and John want to jack in their membership, as it seems a shame for them to not be there out of the sake of their own principals... I don't want to be alone, I'll get scared...

Go on ya b u g g e r s, shoot me down in flames and tell me I've got it all wrong...
LOL
Mike R
SIDC Member 1105

TFyus

taz

thats me... the solitary rs...

the rest of the rs's have been lost rallying in the forrest or died in a rallycross

well thats our excuse or otherwise they might just have broken down or rusted away

well i enjoyed my solitary track day with the sidc, but john_s is saying that there will be no problem with other cars being on during the knockhill days and we all knockhill is where its at

rw

johnfelstead

If it worked in the way you describe mike i wouldnt have grounds for complaint now would i?

I have been told that if i book i will be put on the reserve list and then i will only get a shot at the track if come the day they havent filled the places with people who meet the criteria of either driving a scoob on track or being last "club" year members.

Sorry, but i am not prepaired to book events and get my car ready for the track only to be told on the day i cant run.

If the suituation was that a month before the event i would have a confirmed place then there isnt a real problem, i would be happy to accept that. That is not the situation i am in.

I also talked to the horses mouth, so to speak, weeks ago, thats the explanation i recieved.

PS. My car is 471BHP/tonne but who gives a toss about that, it's still quicker than your shed on a race track.

johnfelstead

OK, someone just mailed me to point out that pete's statement does not exclude me from being on the normal list.

If you want to be completely corect in the interpretation of this <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR> "The answer is that all members wishing to use cars other than Imprezas at (non BHLG) SIDC track days, who were not members last "club" year, will have to allow priority of allocation to be given to Impreza owning SIDC members." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> then i cannot be excluded as i do own an Impreza.

So i am going to ask again for clarification, please answer with a yes or no, am i automatically on the reserve list?

Mike Rainbird

John,
Perhaps that was because I have been a member since late 1999 then - sorry for adding to the confusion....

And how would you know, we've never occupied the same track space since my "ickle" upgrade - or are you going by my "interesting" racing lines.... Mine is only just over 400bhp per ton fully fuelled up and with driver, is yours wet or dry weight?
Best regards
Mike R
PS. See you at the next Track Zone day anyway......

johnfelstead

Mines the power/weight fully fueld up but without the driver.

We have been on track together since your upgrade, i passed you down craner m8.

(OK so you were cooling the bugger down ) LOL

No doubt we will have a good run on track soon, i am saying nowt about your lines though mike.

letdown

Ive just read this thread and can't see what all the fuss is about?? No-one is saying you cant go on the Track-days just that as its a SIDC event Subaru's have first choice! its seems pretty black and white to me!

johnfelstead

no letdown, that is not what is being said at all.

Mungo

I have never met John, and not yet taken my Scoob to a track day, so I may be in a poor position to comment, BUT I remember a recent thread concerning a track day (I think Snetterton) where John was telling us how he had had to overtake several cars on the wrong side because they wouldn't move over and how it was safe to do so because his car was so much quicker. From a total outsiders point of view, surely this is the kind of behaviour that SIDC is trying to remove from their track days?
As I feel no personal attachment to John, (and I'm sure he's a very noce guy from the kind comments above), are there not Westfield track days where John could use his car with more compatible machinery?
From John's point of view, I can understand that he feels he's not getting what he paid for, and he should get a refund of his membership fee.
From SIDC's point of view, why does a Westfield owner want to join a Subaru club? Are there Scooby owners who want to go on MGF days?
Hopefully an emotion-free viewpoint of this obviously tense situation.

salsa-king

how many NON-Scoobys do SIDC track days???
not that many are there??

How many????

at the end of the day there are still plenty of Scooby's on track and a few other cars...
Escort/Saphire Cossie's, Westfield, Evo's, the odd TVR, the odd Honda.....?

are we looking at about 6-7 or 8? in a fild of 30+ Scoob's

i don't see much of a problem, there all SIDC members who think the SIDC club is one of the best run/organized clubs!


having differant cars on track makes it interesting 4 everyone, surely?

is it not more dangerous at Donnington (TrackZone Days) when they have a Time slot with MX5's mixed with TVR's and a few Scoob's and other faster cars?
a real mix bag of power on track at the same time!


if Johns not in his Westie at SIDC days it will not feel the same!


ILOVEUJOHNEVENIFNOONEELSEDOES lol
i think ur cars ace, thank 4 taking me out in it last January.


Phil

johnfelstead

I own a Subaru, most of my mates own Subaru's, i drive one every day. I have put an awefull lot of effort into educating both Subaru and non-Subaru drivers on getting the most out of their cars both on the road and track. I have nothing to gain from this effort except the pleasure of knowing i have made a contribution to the society i live in. I like the people who attend SIDC track days, the events are always well run, thats why i want to attend these days.

I had some issues with what was published in True Grip. The first was a safety issue that did not stand up to scrutiny. I also did not like what looked like a reference to me personally, Pete has put that one straight. Third is the fact that i signed an agreement with a club and paid money to that club to recieve the full benefits the club had to offer. After accepting my money they decided to change my membership terms without consultation, that simply is not an acceptable way to treat a club member.

Some of you may wonder what all the fuss is about. I'll tell you why. I have a very strong sense of fairness and whenever i enter a contract with a third party i expect them to treat me with the same respect i give them. When that doesnt happen it upsets me enormously.

The SIDC is fully entitled to run the club as it feels fit, but to change the terms of membership after members have signed up is simply not cricket. If they feel it is so important to make a change in members terms then the only fair way of doing this is to make the changes to new members and inform them before they sign up. The current members should then be consulted to ensure the committee is acting in the interests of those members. Obviously this cant happen on a daily event basis but this is a big change in the clubs terms, as a current member i feel entitled to comment.

As to my exploits on track mentioned above (Oulton m8), this has been covered extensively, I aint touching that subject here.

Phil, thanks.

[This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited 20 March 2001).]

salsa-king

don't worry John,
i'm sure ur not!

Phil

MarkCSC

I've only been to one SIDC track day as a spectator and the variety of cars made everything a lot more interesting. I had a passenger lap with StuartK and being overtaken by a 500bhp MkII escort made you realise that it doesn't matter how fast you are there is always someone faster. I don't think anybody had a problem with it. If someone is dangerous on track they get black flagged, right? If everybody is driving safely what's the problem? I've never heard any complaints about JohnF's or MikeR's driving on track.

If the SIDC want to let Subaru drivers have first crack at the wip fine. Do as Mike suggested give priority to these owner drivers and then open it up to other members three weeks or so before the event.

Everybody is happy and the SIDC fill the track days.

Does this seem a good idea?

Mark


[This message has been edited by Mark Champion (edited 20 March 2001).]