Independent Scotland
Good old sottish english banter and people wonder why country falling to bits. Scotland and england isnt ours anymore anyway all the illegals get more benifits and more say wont be long before were ALL a minority 
07 December 2010, 09:27 PM
#33
Certainly there was quite bunch of 'em running the UK in the last cabinet. Not saying that is good or bad, but one has to question their allegiances. If they are in power in Westminster, then obviously they'd want to keep hold of Scotland in order to keep money flowing from London to their homeland.
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 December 2010 at 01:13 AM.
07 December 2010, 10:34 PM
#34
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Steve
08 December 2010, 10:16 AM
#36
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Isn't there a load of Scots at Westminster anyway?
Certainly there was quite bunch of 'em running the UK in the last cabinet. Not saying that is good or bad, but one has to question their allegiances. If they are in power in Westminster, then obviously they'd want to keep hold of Scotland in order to keep money flowing from London to their homeland.
Certainly there was quite bunch of 'em running the UK in the last cabinet. Not saying that is good or bad, but one has to question their allegiances. If they are in power in Westminster, then obviously they'd want to keep hold of Scotland in order to keep money flowing from London to their homeland.
LOL
I'm not massively pro or anti independence for Scotland. What does **** me off though is when English people (and I include many posting on here) whinge about the "cost" of Scotland and the Scottish people, when the reality is that the cost wouldn't have existed had the revenues from oil in what are Scottish waters been utilised in Scotland over the years.
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
And the doubters should read this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5728477.ece
08 December 2010, 10:37 AM
#37
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LOL
I'm not massively pro or anti independence for Scotland. What does **** me off though is when English people (and I include many posting on here) whinge about the "cost" of Scotland and the Scottish people, when the reality is that the cost wouldn't have existed had the revenues from oil in what are Scottish waters been utilised in Scotland over the years.
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
And the doubters should read this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5728477.ece
I'm not massively pro or anti independence for Scotland. What does **** me off though is when English people (and I include many posting on here) whinge about the "cost" of Scotland and the Scottish people, when the reality is that the cost wouldn't have existed had the revenues from oil in what are Scottish waters been utilised in Scotland over the years.
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
And the doubters should read this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5728477.ece
Good link btw
08 December 2010, 10:43 AM
#38
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LOL
I'm not massively pro or anti independence for Scotland. What does **** me off though is when English people (and I include many posting on here) whinge about the "cost" of Scotland and the Scottish people, when the reality is that the cost wouldn't have existed had the revenues from oil in what are Scottish waters been utilised in Scotland over the years.
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
And the doubters should read this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5728477.ece
I'm not massively pro or anti independence for Scotland. What does **** me off though is when English people (and I include many posting on here) whinge about the "cost" of Scotland and the Scottish people, when the reality is that the cost wouldn't have existed had the revenues from oil in what are Scottish waters been utilised in Scotland over the years.
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
And the doubters should read this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5728477.ece
Besides it's not all a utopia as a petro-economy. It tend to kill economic diversity and the dependence on oil-dollars is not healthy.
08 December 2010, 10:49 AM
#39
One of the leading authorites in International Economic Policy, currently an expert advisor to the Calman Commission of the UK Government, has as recently as October this year confirmed that Scotland subsidises the UK treasury and that Scotland would be better off with independence. Estimates are that Scots could be 25% to 30% wealthier.
I doubt it would work quite so nicely: Its assuming perfect trade agreements and the buyers of your oil don't play hard ball, take note of how they screw over many third world countries. Who is to say an Independant Scotland can't be bullied into poorer deals?
And Andrew Hallett didn't quite say that IMO -did he?
What he pointed out was "the context of independance is nothing here nor there" (maybe thats to say he wouldn't trust them to govern themselves efficiently ). He certainly didn't advocate independance, meerly suggesting a funding restructure (which we all need IMO).
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 December 2010 at 10:51 AM.
08 December 2010, 11:02 AM
#40
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I doubt it would work quite so nicely: Its assuming perfect trade agreements and the buyers of your oil don't play hard ball, take note of how they screw over many third world countries. Who is to say an Independant Scotland can't be bullied into poorer deals?
And Andrew Hallett didn't quite say that IMO -did he? What he pointed out was "the context of independance is nothing here nor there" (maybe thats to say he wouldn't trust them to govern themselves efficiently ). He certainly didn't advocate independance, meerly suggesting a funding restructure (which we all need IMO).
And Andrew Hallett didn't quite say that IMO -did he?
What he pointed out was "the context of independance is nothing here nor there" (maybe thats to say he wouldn't trust them to govern themselves efficiently ). He certainly didn't advocate independance, meerly suggesting a funding restructure (which we all need IMO).Saudi Aramco is the world biggest oil company.
OTOH North Sea drilling is quite technical and capital intensive, but then Iraq has/is opened/opening up its fields to Majors and is absolutely raping them with obscenely low royalties.
08 December 2010, 11:11 AM
#41
On the contrary many 3rd world countries run national oil companies so they get all the revenue direct into the governments pockets.
Saudi Aramco is the world biggest oil company.
OTOH North Sea drilling is quite technical and capital intensive, but then Iraq has/is opened/opening up its fields to Majors and is absolutely raping them with obscenely low royalties.
Saudi Aramco is the world biggest oil company.
OTOH North Sea drilling is quite technical and capital intensive, but then Iraq has/is opened/opening up its fields to Majors and is absolutely raping them with obscenely low royalties.
08 December 2010, 11:23 AM
#42
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Scottish Nationalists forget this is not 1975 anymore.
08 December 2010, 11:27 AM
#44
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I doubt it would work quite so nicely: Its assuming perfect trade agreements and the buyers of your oil don't play hard ball, take note of how they screw over many third world countries. Who is to say an Independant Scotland can't be bullied into poorer deals?
And Andrew Hallett didn't quite say that IMO -did he? What he pointed out was "the context of independance is nothing here nor there" (maybe thats to say he wouldn't trust them to govern themselves efficiently ). He certainly didn't advocate independance, meerly suggesting a funding restructure (which we all need IMO).
And Andrew Hallett didn't quite say that IMO -did he?
What he pointed out was "the context of independance is nothing here nor there" (maybe thats to say he wouldn't trust them to govern themselves efficiently ). He certainly didn't advocate independance, meerly suggesting a funding restructure (which we all need IMO).
08 December 2010, 11:29 AM
#45
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But lets not let the facts get in the way
Last edited by Devildog; 08 December 2010 at 11:33 AM.
08 December 2010, 11:33 AM
#46
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08 December 2010, 11:40 AM
#47
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It's a classic sign of an oil province being in decline, plus the actual statistics on production!
This from wiki. Note this is UK oil production - not all is in 'Scottish waters'.
UK oil production has seen two peaks, in the mid 1980s and late 1990s, with a decline to around 300×103 m³ (1.9 million barrels) per day in the early 1990s.[21] Monthly oil production peaked at 13.5×106 m³ (84.9 million barrels) in January 1985[21] although the highest annual production was seen in 1999, with offshore oil production in that year of 407×106 m³ (2559 million barrels)[22] and had declined to 231×106 m³ (1452 million barrels) in 2007.[22] This was the largest decrease of any other oil exporting nation in the world, and has led to Britain becoming a net importer of crude for the first time in decades, as recognized by the energy policy of the United Kingdom.[23] The production is expected to fall to one-third of its peak by 2020
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 08 December 2010 at 11:56 AM.
08 December 2010, 11:57 AM
#48
I work for a stimulation department in a large oil service company and things are looking good, the cost of new technologies are coming down all the time.
You are correct that it is in the decline but there's years of life left yet before we suck the north sea dry.
Last edited by mslorach; 08 December 2010 at 11:59 AM.
08 December 2010, 12:09 PM
#49
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It's not the majors who matter any more in the north sea though, its all the smaller companies who have taken over and committed to the north sea for the long term and are using excellent technological innovations to increase the life of existing fields and open up new ones too.
I work for a stimulation department in a large oil service company and things are looking good, the cost of new technologies are coming down all the time.
You are correct that it is in the decline but there's years of life left yet before we suck the north sea dry.
I work for a stimulation department in a large oil service company and things are looking good, the cost of new technologies are coming down all the time.
You are correct that it is in the decline but there's years of life left yet before we suck the north sea dry.
I agree with your last point, but it's stupid to base the economics of 'national independence movement' on an oil province which is in long term decline and has had most of oil has been produced!
08 December 2010, 12:12 PM
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08 December 2010, 12:45 PM
#51
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Sure they are mopping up the pockets of oil left over by the majors, and you have had the odd discovery like Buzzard, but it's precisely because it's in decline that these smaller companies are moving in. The majors want reserves not to eek out a few bbls from a finished field.
I agree with your last point, but it's stupid to base the economics of 'national independence movement' on an oil province which is in long term decline and has had most of oil has been produced!
I agree with your last point, but it's stupid to base the economics of 'national independence movement' on an oil province which is in long term decline and has had most of oil has been produced!
Yes the extraction figures are in decline. Because its not flowing as freely as it used to, but that doesn't mean there is not a significant quantity still there. The majors can't make money below critical volumes, so they move on.
Go away and do some proper research if you want to be taken seriously.
08 December 2010, 12:51 PM
#52
Oils old news anyway
we'll soon be leading the way with our green energy, wind, water and tidal !
don't worry though, I'm guessing the income will still go to the same place
we'll soon be leading the way with our green energy, wind, water and tidal !
don't worry though, I'm guessing the income will still go to the same place
08 December 2010, 01:21 PM
#53
Sure they are mopping up the pockets of oil left over by the majors, and you have had the odd discovery like Buzzard, but it's precisely because it's in decline that these smaller companies are moving in. The majors want reserves not to eek out a few bbls from a finished field.
I agree with your last point, but it's stupid to base the economics of 'national independence movement' on an oil province which is in long term decline and has had most of oil has been produced!
I agree with your last point, but it's stupid to base the economics of 'national independence movement' on an oil province which is in long term decline and has had most of oil has been produced!
There's still vast amounts left but it's technologically more difficult to produce. Some of the majors aren't interested in this and are passing the fields on to those who are. Most of the majors are actually still committed to the north sea for the moment, there's plenty of others who will take up the reigns when they leave.
Take Apache for example, they are building a new satellite platform for the Forties Field at a cost of $240m, this is one of the oldest fields in the north sea that BP sold off in 2003.
You are right, it is ridiculous to base the independence movement solely on the oilfields but they certainly could be used as a stepping stone in that direction, a lot of the industry's technological excellence could be used in other areas such as renewable energy.
Just so you know, I'm undecided as to whether Scotland should be independent or not.
Last edited by mslorach; 08 December 2010 at 01:30 PM.
08 December 2010, 02:37 PM
#54
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Very stupid to break up the Union. Nothing to be gained by either side, and Scotland should remember how well they have been doing out of the rest of the UK for some time now.
It is worth remembering the old saw about "divided we fall" and not only that, imagine how we would be expected to slip them several billions to back them up if it all fell about, just like the gift to Eire. This union has been in existence for so long and always worked to everyone's advantage. Why throw an historical success away?
Les
It is worth remembering the old saw about "divided we fall" and not only that, imagine how we would be expected to slip them several billions to back them up if it all fell about, just like the gift to Eire. This union has been in existence for so long and always worked to everyone's advantage. Why throw an historical success away?
Les
08 December 2010, 02:44 PM
#55
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There was significant resistance to the Union when it was first formed, Les. It really did have to be forced through.
Last edited by JTaylor; 08 December 2010 at 02:45 PM.
08 December 2010, 04:02 PM
#56
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Does anyone remember the 'Naked Video' sketch character, who step over the border and shout abuse at the English?
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
08 December 2010, 04:28 PM
#57
Does anyone remember the 'Naked Video' sketch character, who step over the border and shout abuse at the English?
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
You must be reading a different thread from me, I dont see anyone blaming England for any misery, just a bit of light hearted banter from both sides and a decent discussion about oil revenue.
08 December 2010, 04:40 PM
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Does anyone remember the 'Naked Video' sketch character, who step over the border and shout abuse at the English?
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
08 December 2010, 05:39 PM
#59
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Does anyone remember the 'Naked Video' sketch character, who step over the border and shout abuse at the English?
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
Ive always thought that that summed up petty f*ckwitted Scottish nationalism. The two countries are inseparably linked; so stop blaming England for your own misery.
Nationalist idiots make me embarrassed to be half Scottish.
Last edited by Devildog; 08 December 2010 at 05:44 PM. Reason: clarity
08 December 2010, 05:42 PM
#60
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