Maz

iTrader: (34)

It's an opinion, no more valid than anyone else's. If those that don't share it are mistaken then consider me mistaken.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Swedish media confirmed that the US ambassador contacted the swedish government and had an informal chat about how assange could be extradited to the US.

The original charges were dropped by the chief prosecutor in stockholm because there was no evidence of rape. They were opened again by a prosecutor in Gothenburg after an MP contacted her about the case. Nothing suspicious there then.

Either way, the "rape" charges are nothing of the sort, as pointed out earlier.

I feel so ashamed to be Swedish. First pirate bay and now this circus as well.

Dedrater

I do feel your pain, wtf is going on in your Country at the moment? More to the point, the Court of Appeals.

Sweden's law system, at the minute is synonymous with dishonestly, a general feeling within Sweden Henrik?

Shssh, leave alone the legal A Level speak.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Honestly I have no idea, I haven't been there for 9 years apart from 1 week a year on holiday

Does seem completely messed up, though. I'm back over xmas so will try to get a feel for the place, but ultimately every time I go there, I come back disappointed as to what things have turned in to. The thing that usually strikes me is that everyone thinks almost exactly the same about every issue, and "dissent" is met with ridicule.

Oh, and don't ever question why paying effectively 75-80% tax etc is sensible, you capitalist pig :P

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Actually to pick up on your point about dishonesty within the law system:

From my own observations and conversations, the younger people generally know that something is "not completely right", but they don't seem to get organised to change it (same as everywhere, then) where-as the older people seem to think everything is hunky-dory *or* that the government should stop ***** footing about and introduce tougher laws for almost everything.

I think this is because the older people generally read one of the two main news papers (expressen & aftonbladet), and especially the Expressen one is very daily-mail'ish (i.e. prints distorted facts etc etc). Aftonbladet on the other hand is just full of complete crap - i.e. celebrities, the equivalent of X factor etc etc ad nauseum.

Both of the above are good at witch hunts too.

Now, I'm sure the media influence thoughts a great deal, so I hope that the young start getting their news from somewhere else.

Fingers crossed.

tony de wonderful

Fact is you don't 'know' there is a conspiracy or the charges are baseless, you just think that.

DCI Gene Hunt

He has a valid point.... it's like I don't actually 'know' TDW's a retarded ****, I just 'think' he is

JTaylor

It's called smelling a rat, instinct or a strong hunch; the facts come afterwards.

tony de wonderful

It's not good enough in the final analysis, we have due process and courts of law because 'intuition' doesn't work.

'Intuition' is why the Gitmo inmates were locked up. Strange that the exact same people arguing that Wikileaks whathisname is the victim of a conspiracy, also want the Gitmo inmates freed and due process.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Red Herring.

JTaylor

(You can take me out of the 'exact people' broad brush.)

You're missing the point (intentionally). People are recoiling in light of the apparent misuse of due process and legal avenues to achieve another, political, goal. It blatantly abuses the system, devaluing and corrupting it.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Thanks to Wikileaks we know just how corrupt and devalued the system is.

tony de wonderful

I can't prove that you are wrong (the beauty of conspiracy theories), but in the absence of a smoking gun that this is an actual US promoted conspiracy, we should withhold judgement until such time as this justice system reaches a verdict (assuming it even goes to trial). It's not the first shaky rape allegation - most rape charges don't even give a conviction. From the POV of the justice system and the alleged victim it is 100% wrong for the wikileaks supporters to politicise this issue, because it says that the justice process should be different for celebs or people with certain jobs.

JTaylor

On a scale of 1-10, If you had to take an educated guess at the truth, 1 being utterly ligitimate, 5 being undecided, 10 being out and out, unequivcol fit-up, what would you attribute?

tony de wonderful

I don't feel in a position to make that guess, not knowing all the facts.

JTaylor

This isn't binding, Tony. Let's imagine we're employing our perceptive faculties and making a call. Is that something you can do? For the record I'm at about an 8.

tony de wonderful

8/10 based on what though?

Historical rape charges against the owners of diplomatic cable leaking websites?

JTaylor

Calls by senior North American politicians to have Assange executed or assassinated. Being branded as a terrorist and an anti-American operative. Calls for his 'capture' and extradition. Unfortunately for the establishment, there was no legal route. Whar happens? Within 72 hours Assange is arrested for 'sleep rape' against the same accusation that hadn't even been granted an arrest warrant in August (the last time he pissed off the establishment). Assange's credibility and integrity aside, I'm claiming an 80% probability that the 'sleep rape' arrest is politically motivated. You?

GlesgaKiss

The thing is that this is just an informal discussion on a forum rather than a legal process. Common sense would suggest that there could be something going on behind the scenes here, but it doesn't matter what opinions we hold because this is not a legal process and nothing needs to be proved either way. You are arguing a case, but probably 90% of the people in this thread have another opinion, so it can't be too unlikely a scenario to dismiss it altogether.

Remember, this discussion isn't about what happened, it's about what people think may have happened. Impossible to know either way, but I'd rather stay cynical than blindly believe everything as fact until proven otherwise. Apart from anything else, what a dull life that would be!

tony de wonderful

But the people who take this self-consciously 'refusnik' stance against the 'official truth' are precisely the ones who seems to just 'believe' any old ludicrous conspiracy theory.

I'm cynical about government but even more cynical about the ones who would tell me how cynical the government are! They ALWAYS have an agenda!

A classic example are the Muslims who say 7/7 was an MI5 set up.

JTaylor

Do you think there's no agenda here, then? You'll be telling me we really did land on the moon next.

JTaylor

Not allowed a copy of Time magazine? He's not even been charged.