Perhaps when "Osama" is top of the charts is the time to get worried.

btw I don't think you can register "Jesus" as a name in this country.

dl

 

I certainly respect your right to believe in your religion and in the same way I respect the right of anyone to believe that there is no God. We all have to follow our own conscience to be true to ourselves.

What I will not support however is a man who will use a religion or other peoples' beliefs to achieve his own selfish ambitions in a dishonest and destructive manner.

Les

 

Influence on what?

The Christian message was revolutionary and enabled science and later industrialism. OTOH Islam seems to have fizzled out as an introverted fatalistic creed, espousing conservatism and thus never innovating, a kind of intellectual dead-end.

 

That's just great.

Next moment you will be saying that all Muslims should be slim

 

Common sense posts like this will get you nowhere in SN BNP. Come on, tow the party line. Those nasty Muslims are taking over and we will all be under Sharia Law by this time next year LOL

 

My wife is a Midwife, overall there are more children born in her unit to non-English parents than white English parents.

 

It's toe the line actually.

Finished with your Islamist sock puppet now BTW?

 

dont believe in birth control thats the problem .. we should be like china and limit the amount of children people can have

 

Is she celebrating the diversity?

 

Did you see the placards held by the protesters at the trial of the Muslim girl who tried to murder the MP?

One said "Islam will Dominate the World"

 

Sadly no, she sadly finds many of them rude and very demanding, seem to think its a 5 star hotel.

 

They are some of a handful of extremists with nothing to do with Islam apparently.

 

And so it is Nice one

 

interesting facts guys. with islam yes there are extremeist that are giving the islam people a bad name come on im sure u guys have friends that are muslim how are they as people to you.. Ok these bad extreme muslims who dont know **** all are giving muslims bad name but you cant assume we are all bad im not saying you guys do

 

What conditions would need to be prevalent in order for you to acknowledge that the country has an issue?

 

I really don't think it does so none. Thirty years ago people spent their time worrying about 'reds under the bed', today it's Muslims and in thrity years time it will be something else.

I will ask you two questions however.

1) What is the 'issue' you think the country has exactly? Answer in plain English please.

2) You obviously feel so strongly about whatever it is that you can't stop posting on here about it so why don't you actually do something active about it instead of repeatedly posting in a small subsection of a Japanese car forum?

 

I for one do not have an issue with Muslims; I have an issue with Islam and its ideological wing, Islamism. Could you tell me, so that I can be confident that you understand me and those that think like me, what you think or feel that my concerns are? Take personality and emotion out of it - let's work it out.

 

I think, feel and believe that the supernatural, fundementalist foundations of Islamism are in direct opposition to the free enquiry that this country and its cousins hold dear. Empirical evidence points to an exponential growth in Islam's influence and I reason that this presents a threat, in the long term, to rational humanism. This is the issue.

I act open this by challenging the status quo and by inviting people to really think about the consequences of inaction. I define inaction, at this juncture, as ignoring the 'issue' and therefor sponsoring the slow creep of an enemy to reason. I hope to, one day, speak with a Muslim that will convincingly allay my fears.

 

Well we have issues of social division etc with ethic groups making themselves insular and I think you have to admit this is a problem in places like Bradford etc. It's part of a wider siege mentality within the community is question, giving way to an insular paranoid mindset which is fertile ground for radicalism and extemism. I don't see a discrete split between the extremists and the moderates but a grey scale.

I see even so called 'moderates' espousing some of the demagoguery and warped narratives of the extremist...even on this forum.

So as well as the immediate terrorist problem (a law and order one) we have a wider social problem and division.

 

Thanks for the answer. I am just not convinced that the growth of Islamism is as big or bad as we are led to beleive. I think if you go looking for something you will find it and if it becomes a focus for the media and various political groups then it can seem to be everywhere as it enjoys a high profie in the political arena.

I know the Muslim popualtion is growing, but surely offsetting that is the fact that many Muslims are becoming more Westernised. I have a couple of Muslim friends who practice their religion within their own (self redefined) limits, but are as Britsih as I am in nearly every way. They are not popular with the more hardline Muslims at their local Mosque, but surely over time this will become more prevalent with second, third, and fouirth generation British Muslims.

 

I do get your position, f1_fan, a genuinely noble opposition to a percieved witchhunt. I don't even want you to publicly acknowledge my position. All I'd ask is that you look at the numbers, decide where you want this country to be in five generations hence, and assess whether you can square the two outcomes.

 

Ah, but Jesus and his Dad aren't real - never have been.

As Prof. Hawking once said....

 

Sorry, wrote the other response without having read this, but I think it still stands. I know, and get on very well, with a number of Muslims; hospitable, civilised men. I have real problems drawing a line between my personal experiences with these guys and what I've witnessed across the country over the past year or so. It isn't these good guys at the reigns - the influence is in the hands of what I believe to be an enemy of Western culture.
Whenever I've pressed Bashir and Haroon (two Afghani refugees with whom I became friends via The Prince's Trust a decade ago), they always support, unequivocally, an ideology rooted in superstition which favours totalitarianism. I simply cannot get past this. I still like them, a lot, but the foundation of their fundemental beliefs sends shivers down my spine. I guess I'm looking for convincing discourse with Muslms which assures me that secularism is accepted and understood.

 

That is fair enough but is not the growth of Islamism and it's visual symbols (the burka etc) within young British muslims quite the opposite?

In many cases these young muslims are 'more muslim' than their parents were.

I see loads of Burkas in Manchester these days. A few years ago zero.

 

Excellent post, very well put.

 

"Some reports say the target could have been a local tribal elder, whose house near the mosque was among those damaged. The elder is reported to have encouraged people to take a stand against the Taliban."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11700795

It's not surprising that the moderates are so fearful of speaking out in this country when the savages within their own religion punish a challenge to power with death at Friday prayers. As I've stated before, your life as an 'ordinary' Muslim is thus:

You're born a Muslim - no choice.
If you try to leave (apostasy) the very best you can hope is complete and devestating ostricism or, more likely, death.
Challenge the Islamists and call for reform? See above.
Die and be invigilated eternally - Hellfire if you've committed thoughtcrimes during your Earthly submission Allah.
A Muslim can of course be in blissfull ignorance, by choice or otherwise, turn a blind eye (cowardly apologists) or join in the fun.

Religion of peace?

So how can 'ordinary' Muslims offer the reassurance that I seek when their hierachy has it all tied up?

 

I would not believe that all Muslims are bad, any more than all the Atheists, Christians, or most other followings in that line.

Les

 

The biggest threat to world peace.

 

...is?

 

As a political-religious ideology is it is tremendously effective form of social and economic control of religious elites over the masses.