Hang on, that doesn't make sense! It's either contrary or it's not. If calls into dispute, it's contrary!

Don't say mis-diagnosis or incompetence is a medical miracle!

This is nearly as bad as the man who is attending a beatification ceremony during the Pope's visit who claims that praying to Cardinal Newman cured his back problem, yet funnily enough it was after an operation to fix the problem that has near 100% success rate and gives virtually instant relief

Eh? Magicians perform tricks. That's quite a key word! They didn't really make anything disappear. Sleight of hand etc., optical illusion. Physics really does preclude those things from happening, and so it does in the bible.

Geezer

 

Have a word with yourself

 

Lol, the point is that you are simply saying that the Bible is all lies because physics says it is. That's not right and your venom against the Bible is clouding your view of approaching the world with an open mind.

For example Jesus apparently rising from the dead? Well there are verifiable stories that people have woken up in morgues, this occasionally even happens today. Did a load of people think they were dead, yes. Doctors have even been involved to certify the deceased. But to say that no one has ever "risen" from the dead cannot happen because physics says so is wrong. Of course this is usually accompanied by a medical explanation of why this happened. But the fact remains is that people have "risen" from the dead even these day. Does the Bible tell us this? Yes. Does it mean that Jesus and God caused someone to rise from the dead? Well I don't know about that.

Could a bush apparently burst into fire by itself? Yes I bet you could setup a trick to do that, possible coated in some volatile chemicals that react under sunlight to burn? Did David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear - yes he did that. Could someone make 5 loaves feed 5000 people, I haven't a clue, but I bet that someone somehow has a trick to do that (biggest loaves in the world? Maybe they are in the Guniness Book of Records etc). I don't know, but I keep an open mind that while some of these things are clearly not miracles I am sure that they can be done.

So because of that I do not simply dismiss the Bible as impossible. Because it's entirely possible.

 

I would have the head teach them both creationism and the theory of evolution, that way they cant be on sided and avoid all this type of fuss!



If they refused i would remove the child from religious studies and make all the other parents aware of waht is happening!

 

Ever read a science book or pay attention at school.


Prove it, what a clown

 

Damn it. Ok, Let me just say that it would be physically or whatever form he/she/it chooses to take impossible for a single entity to create everything.
Frosty The Snowman LOL. I am also open minded about creation. The whole Single entity creation theory just doesn't wash with me though.

 

Who says God is a single entity? what actually is God?

 

No, I haven't read a science book that proves beyond doubt that God did not create the universe. I thought that debate was still going on between science and theologians. However, if I've missed something and such a book does exist, and religion has been proven to be bunkum, please point me to that book. I'd love to read it.



PS. Less of the insults please. It doesn't really get us anywhere does it?

 

My little blind fish must believe I am God, he's never seen me, never spoke directly to me, never touched me but I created his world, look after his well being and feed him everyday.

 

What if that single entity was capable of creating things outside what currently perceive as the laws of physics?

Again I don't subscribe to the theory but my mind is open. The Frosty theory still holds a certain charm for me!

 

But you could physically touch the Fish though. BIG difference

 

If the Big G wanted to touch us, i'm sure he could!

 

Start here

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species.../dp/0517123207

Religion is just a construct of the human mind

 

No, I'm not saying it's "all lies" at all. However, there are many aspects of the bible that simply could not have happened. Alot of these things are central to the message of the bible. Simply having a smattering of historical fact here and there (and a fair bit of that is incorrect) to try andlend it some credibility is frankly ridiculous.

As for venom, I don't really have any. It is fascinating how people how be fooled by such an obvious non-truth, so I am rather incredulous, not venomous!

No, it is wrong. We need to be quite clear on that. We are not talking about someone being declared dead but yet being resucitated within a longer time frame than usual, or mis-certification of death here. He was crucified, and speared by a Roman soldier. He was taken down several hours later, (presumably after a good bleed) and wrapped in a shroud, completely covering him, so presumably restricting any breathing he may have had. He is then sealed in a small cave for 3 days.

Now it is not beyong the realms of possibilty that he was still alive after 3 days, but consider this : huge blood loss, restricted breathing, no water, no food. In the extremely unlikely event he wasn't dead, do you think that after 3 days of those conditions he actually got up and walked round unaided? And moved the rock blocking his tomb?

I think you have hit another nail on the head there, using the word "trick" again. So the burning bush is a trick, not God.

David Copperfield did not make the statue of liberty disappear. He made it so that we wouldn't see it, it's quite different.

The bible is not entirely possible, it's mostly impossible.

Geezer

 

LOL, This could go on forever. I do admire your persistence though

 

More of a caretaker than a God since you didn't actually create him from nothing nor created a companion from one of his little ickle ribs.

 

you think clown is an insult?, that was a bit of friendly banter!

 

here here!

 

Aha I see a ***** of light :-)

I'm not about to debate whether the odds of someone rising from the dead or bushes burning or making things disappears. That is not my intention. It was my intention to show that one could produce the same things as seen in the Bible. Therefore to say that Physics proves the Bible is impossible, is wrong.

The original point I was expanding on is that "modern physics... is contrary to the Bible". Ie modern physics says that the Bible is wrong and impossible. The real issue is not whether they are possible (clearly they are), it's in the interpretation of those events in the Bible, not whether some of the apparent miracles are real or not.

As mentioned earlier I appreciate a magic show for what it is. But I don't go around claiming that it's not possible to do the tricks just because they are contrary to physics. But, and here's the important part, I do not take that a stage further and create a religion around it.

There have been several posts (not just by you) lately about the Bible being a pack of lies both in miracles and historical content, maybe it is, but I prefer to keep an open mind on everything, rather than close it off with sweeping statement.

 

I think SN should have two new forums - I'd like to see a Radical Atheists one and a Believers one, please.

Then we can leave each other in peace.

Moreover, if any of you non believers want to join me over here - where I've been for a number of years, you're more than welcome.

Things are a happening, people. It won't be long.
http://radicalatheist.com/





And just to even it up

http://forums.jesusradicals.com/

 

OK, I think we are talking at cross purposes here. What I am saying is that the bible is simply a story, totally made up because it is historically innaccurate and the miracles are not possible, and you are saying that the bible is not made up but the stories in it have been mis-interpreted and were not real?

If that is so, then yes, of course I concede that is a possibility, but it still means that the miracles in the bible are not miracles, either way

So what point is there in the bible?

Geezer

 

Geezer,
You're pissing in the wind.
Leave them to it.

 

Cya there

 

Sorry, I obviously got the wrong end of the stick.






























You scum sucking retard.

 

Back on topic - in the US if a four year old came home having been taught this at school there would be hell to pay. Indeed the parents could sue the school!

US Presidents can lose elections backing RE in schools.

Prayer in assembly is a hugely controversial issue. It does not seem to have stopped the religious right indoctrinating their own though!

 

Genius!!

 

out of interest Lisa, what moral values do you bring your children up to believe?

 

That is going to be a bit hard to define isn't it, for any parent that doesn't rely on a bull**** book that doe more harm than good.

It is blatantly obvious what a good set of morals are, what is right, what is wrong etc everyone implements them in a way they see fit for their child.

 

I personally wouldn't worry about it. I had religion rammed down my throat at infance and junior school and it didn't brain wash me. Ultimately religous parents will be the ones grooming their kids into their ways. So if you are there to give a balanced view of things I'm sure they'll see the light.

Might sound odd to some people but I could never be good friends with someone that believed a god/ man image created earth/ the universe. Infact the only people I know that are truly worshippers are really loopy. I was watching some of the pope visit in Scotland yesterday and just watching some of the people worshipping this man made me feel quite ill.

 

No really. I see the world as a monotheist, it's impossible not to unless you somehow take a radical break from western civilization and isolate yourself of maybe become insane.

It's not an intellectual thing but a matter of consciousness.