urban

iTrader: (1)

I had a guy in work today who's got a GTR
Slightly off topic perhaps, but he's had a very bad run of luck with his
Exploding bonnet
Brake disc failure of some type
Broken gearbox

He's currently trying to sell it - as he says the running costs are very high.
His insurance has doubled in the last two years.

john banks

When you see what is behind the trim and the carpets you start to see why. There are massive box sections of chassis strengthening/cross members that you wonder what space there is actually left for the driver. The whole car including the positioning/type of engine and gearbox have been designed around tyre loading according to Mizuno. Interior space comes second.

It appears to pay off when you consider how well something so heavy can change direction/handle and the grip is incredible.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

That may be all true and yet it results in a car that is very large and very heavy. Give a tight and twisty circuit and the GT3 RS is the quicker car (evo results on West Circuit which is not actually that tight).

So it is a very fast car with monumental grip but does it really handle?

Lighter cars have many virtues and what they may lose (in a very small way) in grip and I sure they could make up in handling - e.g. Caterham, Lotus 2-11, Exige, GT3 RS.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Would love a go in one of these, anything that people remark on the performance in such high regard is always a draw, however they weigh 1700 odd kilos and have 470 bhp which in these strange times seems quite heavy compared to the BHP, a lot of Mercs have that but they dont get the same reverence with the performance so how did Nissan do it as on paper it should be fast but not that fast, is it like in the past where they quote one figure but its actually more ?

And how fast must that Noble M600 be to make one look comparatively slow !

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Perhaps this is how Nissan recover losses made on each sale

J4cko - that's "only" 276hp per ton which doesn't seem to explain mental speed of em

TX.

LG John

I have often wondered the same think J4CKO. I have seen a few vids of stock GTRs thumping M5s from a roll which should be near impossible with only fractionally less weight, 37bhp less and 4wd losses - we arent talking about just beating them either, it is a decent victory.

I conclude that a) the lightening quick gearbox helps a lot and b) they have more than quoted power - probably nearer 500bhp.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Or the M5s were not set to Power mode so were only running 400bhp which is default.

MMT WRX

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/fastest-car-video/

MMT WRX

I didn't realise the turbo was that much faster, looks like the GT3 even jumped the start.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hPBeM3UhKyo

Zip

LG John

Pretty sure I have seen an M5 video of this though....seems unlikely they would forget to hit the M button

Dingdongler

Wow! The 997tts whoops the GTR's butt on that video. I suppose to be fair they should have used a lightly modded GTR for comparison but it does go to show how much difference launch control makes to the GTR (no longer available on new models and invalidates your warranty if you use it on the older models)

Btw did they say whether the 997tts was manual or PDK?

john banks

You selectively chose a result that favours one car. Light cars are not fun to crash in, not sensible for daily use in all weathers and for carrying stuff. This is a road car for me, not a track car, but generally the track results blow anything remotely similar on price or power:weight out the water. Any RWD Porsche would never be a consideration for me for a year round car to use in Scotland.

It depends what you mean by handling, it can include steering response, weighting of controls, oversteer/understeer balance, throttle adjustability etc. I prefer longitudinal or lateral g over handling though. I'd much rather be able to pull 1+g in any direction without needing much driver skill than pull 0.9g and have a lot of driver input. Just me perhaps.

The only Porsche that directly competes is the 997.2 PDK Turbo and that accelerates faster in a straight line (fixed with a remap using the product I help to develop ) but is slower around all the track results I've seen that compare. It is about double the price with sensible options, but it does have a stronger gearbox and better cooling.

Dingdongler

Agreed. You can't compare a GTR to a Porsche GT3 RS even. The GTR is an everyday car that you can go shopping in come snow, rain etc. I wouldn't classify the GT3 RS as that

Trout

iTrader: (1)

What is this link to - it doens't work for me

Trout

iTrader: (1)

My comment was not about the car overall it was about what constitutes a good handling car. Personally I do not think the 911 Turbo is a comparison. In a straight line the 911 Turbo would accelerate faster - but around a circuit a GT3 would be quicker. The Turbo is a hugely accelerative car with amazing grip. Which goes to my point.

As for lateral G - even a 996 GT3 will pull over 1.0g without superhuman effort, but it is also very adjustable and has fabulous handling. I do think that with cars like the Subaru, Evo and Skyline/GTR superlative grip and acceleration is confused for handling.

As for living with a car day to day - my GT3 is my day car. And it has as many usable seats as a GTR

MMT WRX

Links to M5board (its working for me )
997 GT3 RS V 997 Turbo both manuals.
I think its from 50 - 180 km/h.
GT3 appears to jump the start a bit, but the turbo nails it and leaves the GT3 for dead. I'm surprised at just how much ground the Turbo put between them.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

It must be picking up something in your cache as it links to a duff You Tube page for me!

The new Turbos are very quick in a straight line. The S does 0-100 in 6.8secs where the GT3 will take nearly 9s (yep it's really slow! )

I know which one I would prefer though...

...the GT2 RS

bighead

iTrader: (1)

well typed my man

john banks

Did you use the GT3 in the snow/ice in January? The GTR got out of our farm and into many others where our Golf was stuck. It collected our Xmas turkey in the ice where only 4wd vehicles were going. All on summer tyres.

Do you find the GTR handling lacking?

Personally I like the GTR as it can mix it with track cars and GT3s, although it would need to cool down more often, but then can be used

The GTR does this and goes around a circuit faster than the Turbo, sometimes faster, sometimes slower than a GT3 RS. Have you driven one and found it lacking in the handling department, or is it a preconception?

john banks

Sorry iPad from the M6 messing up replies. Blame Apple! Seems unable to scroll down in a scoobynet edit box. It is going out the window...

Dingdongler

Trouty may not have driven the GTR but that will never stop him insisting that the GT3 is the best handling car in the world, the most tactile and I'm sure he has insisted in the past that its the best sounding NA engine in the world as well.

I'm sure the GT3 is a fantastic car especially on track, but to me it is not an everyday car, especially in clubsport guise (and anybody who buys the 'comfort' version is a pillow biter anyway)

Btw has anybody here driven a PDK car? I'd be interested to hear feedback.

Looking at some vids on the 997.2 turboS its good to see that the extra £60k price of the 997 over the GTR does buy you better engineering that the makers have faith in.

Launch control in the GTR will invalidate your warranty, and this was spelt out to me by the Nissan salesman. In the Porsche, no problem, use it as many times as you want

MMT WRX

Here you go (the other link is for your mobile)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPBeM3UhKyo

Something must have gone wrong with the GT3 or he chucked his toys out

Dingdongler

Thanks Moley.

To coin a scoobynet fave expression, the GT3 RS was RAPED!!!

MMT WRX

Moley?

GT3's a pensioners car

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Im looking at Golf's with a 1.8T conversion that are about that bhp/tonne, i.e. a 1.8T TT engine in a tonnes worth of Golf tuned to getting on for 300 bhp without much effort, so 276 bhp/tonne doesnt explain the epic performance reviews they get, not doubting it, just celebrating it and wondering how what seems a "workmanlike" power to weight is so mind bending even to hardened tuned Scoob and other performance car owners, I can only assume they make more power than advertised, even Matteeboy defers to a GTR ! and that is the main factor for me

graeme jones

Looked like he got a dog **** start in the GTR but he also had a bad start in the lexus so some of it is down to the fella not being capable of launching them hard of the line.
He wouldn't have beat the porker anyway as it was awesome off the line and continued to pull harder than the GTR but it wouldn't have looked as poor if the GTR had actually got off the line quicker than a Rover 200 lol

Trout

iTrader: (1)

In no particular order

Yes I used my GT3 in the snow and ice in January - it is my only car - never got stuck, never spun off.

Of course I do love my car but there are plenty of other cars out there (including some I have listed) that will run rings around the GT3 in many departments. There are many faster cars as well, in a straight line, such as 911 Turbos.

I have not driven the GTR but if you note my posts I have asked a question not made an assertion. I asked that like Scoobs, do GTRs rely on monumental grip and acceleration rather than handling. I merely use the GT3 as an example of a relatively low powered supercar that benefits from decent handling. Although it does have monumental grip as well - perhaps even more than a GTR as it turns out. There are others that also make this challenge that are perhaps less practical such as a Caterham R400 or R500 or Lotus Exige.

For a while I really, really wanted to get a GTR. It was the centre piece of my vision board from the very first photo being put out there. What put me off? Size, weight, weak gearbox rumours, servicing costs, potentially horrendous track day costs due to all of the above. I now add the need to cool it off

Back to my real question - does it really need to be so heavy? And does this weight damage it's potential as a handling car?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Whoever wrote this BBS software needs to be SHOT!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I am not sure I have ever said that but I do sleep soundly knowing that some pretty skilful wheelmen think that

Dingdongler

I'm glad that helps you sleep soundly

Anyway, I do understand your question. I think you may just be using slightly ambiguous terminology. What I think you are asking (and I wondered this myself) is does the GTR put in impressive track times by way of its sheer 4wd grip or does one actually enjoy some driver input and adjustability along the way?

I can't answer that as it was raining hard when I test drove.