eggy790

iTrader: (20)

Theres always going to be faster cars than you on the road.. So dont go for power.. go for the fun factor.. and that comes from a good all round car which the impreza is as standard.. 400bhp its probs the most affordable limit.. top this off with hadling mods and you'll have a good quick b road blaster

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

This 100% works i drive a picasso in the week when i get to go out.

lilesk

iTrader: (1)

This is absolutely the most cost effective way to keep your car feeling fast. Get a really sh*t car to drive as well.
(We've got a 1.9 diesel estate)

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

My misses Clio 200 feels like a slug compared to my Scooby, I still want 400hp though.

MK2VTR8VALVE

Stop putting ideas like this in my head lol

What cars did you do this on?

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

2003 wrx 2005 wrx

Moley

iTrader: (9)

No matter what you've got, there will always be something quicker than you.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=BIG FUD;9553300]Bolt a 20g on £450
Secong hand injectors 550cc £150
Decent panel filter £40
ecu tec mapp £400
pump £75
boost solenoid £pennies of here

£1200 give or take.
Ive done it on the last few new age cars ive had and 2k is possible.Me and a mate were both close to 400bhp.. 389 and 391 so not to much cost and the extra 60bhp is deffo worth it.

Brakes if you have standard 4 pots put some decent discs and pads off aztec £150 ish you are away and with the little extras to buy you still under 2 bags.[/QUOTE


None of that is 400 spec and totally unsafe if the tune was pushed.
The 20g is a poor 2ltr turbo, 550's would be maxed out, 650 injectors would be needed, the panel filter just wouldn't flow enough air so caik, a good front mount intercooler an absolute requirement.
The OP would spend the 2k and have a car that wasn't as good
Trev

stealthy55

yes but he only does 1/8 mile ande lives on a "road island" correct me if im wrong

stealthy55

you need a bigger turbo

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

[quote=trevsjwood;9553804]
What aload of shi?eee its proven on my mates car been on there for 2 years 30k miles and was on my track car so please dont tell me its unsafe.

Andy fs top mount does 450bhp my type 25 top mount did 389bhp so i think you need to keep reading up.As for panell filter both cars i spoke about had k.n panel filters.

Shaun

trevjswood,
A proper (so many cheap 20g's out there) 20g could produce the type of figures that BigFud is referring to. It is not common, but it is and has been done.

I agree that "pink" injectors would be close to flat knacker at that type of bhp level assuming standard fuel pressure.

As regards to a FMIC being an absolute requirement and the fact that the OE airbox / panel filter will not produce these figures is simply incorrect I'm afraid (for a Newage STI8 onwards).

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

My pink 550 cc in my tyype 25 were fine even if they wasnt get them flowed bye laterall to 800cc for £150-£200 or get some 850cc on e bay now flow tested £180.

jd5217

where do you think I live?

stealthy55

down south?

EH52WRX

iTrader: (16)

How about the price of an upgraded clutch and 6 speed box, arb's, suspension, brakes, anti lift kit, and the list goes on and on. By a car that has already had all the mods done. I wish i did, would have saved about £7K. One of the biggest factors is labour charges plus VAT...........Ouch.

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

just a little reminder of what the 'stock' sti is capable of, just 15 seconds in it at the end and a difference of £200K ish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBxKcJV7Wc

if the sti driver had a co-driver he would have been a little quicker

SCOOBY'S........dont you just luv em?

Mus

iTrader: (2)

if it's a daily driver don't go too mad as you want it to remain reliable and don't cut corners either as it will cost in a long run good luck what ever you do but remeber.

you can only have two

fast
reliable
cheap

it can be fast and reliable but won't be cheap
it can be cheap and reliable but won't be fast
it can be cheap and fast and won't be reliable

that's based on the last 4 years of owning an scoob

Mus

L.J.F

iTrader: (31)

nicely said Mus!

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

I too see it that way, I think () i'd be happy with 300!

I'd like to see some sort of chart which shows Impreza power compared to proven 0-62 times. I know the book figures are considered optimistic but the WRX I have with standard engine is meant to do it in under 6 seconds and with PPP that drops to under 5! I'd consider 0-62 in 4.something to be bloody quick!

Surely there is a point where it becomes no longer worth upgrading the engine as the noticeable speed increase outweighs the cost that would be involved? I wonder would that point be?

Shaun

Flaps,
That can be down to an individuals perspective, as regards to how much cash is worth x power.

The best way I like to look at it is cost for life of ownership. It is not always about spending £?k's and then forgetting about it. Costs can be increased over time, depending on what is being done. Insurance and increased maintenance, funds for breakages are all part of this.

When I went to over 500bhp on the Spec C I always had money allocated for a blown engine, just in case. I don't care how reliable the build is anticipated to be, you never know what is around the corner. When my HG's went after just over 18months I did not flinch over the cost for that repair, or for the subsequent total refresh that I decided upon at the same time. Funds had already been put aside. That fund was then "topped back up" as soon as the new refresh went in, and you are back at the same point. People need to be realistic certainly from certain performance levels, especially if they are going to be using the car very hard.

Obviously this is slightly extreme over the type of level being discussed here, but it is all relevant.

In a lot of cases cheap is dear and dear is cheap!

bigsinky

yes, it's the law of diminishing returns. people spend thousands to chase tenths of seconds in the drag racing scene. for instance in a classic scoob.

standard sti 276 bhp quarter mile 14 seconds 100mph terminals

300 hp (light mods) = 13.3 @ 107

350 hp (light mods) = 12.7 @ 114

400 (forged build) = 12.1 @117

500 (forged build) = 11.5 @ 125

600 (mega build) = 11.2 @ 135

Now i cant drive for toffee. i found it harder to make better times with more horse power.

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

good comparison chart above thre big sinky.. an extra column of cost would also highlight this further

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

Good thinking regarding the rebuild money Shaun, I wonder how many people have spent all they have on the one engine only for it to go pop and then be stuck! I also agree on the cost of ownership issue, it would be cheaper for me to mod mine (although not to those standards) than part ex for a newer STI. That's the angle i'm working on with the wife anyway

Those 1/4 mile times are quite interesting. Surprising how little difference there was between 500 and 600, but yeah, I agree if that's what you are going to use it for then it it is worth ploughing more cash in for a few tenths.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Regarding diminishing returns in terms of power versus elapsed time, it generally works out in drag cars that you're going to need 8 times the power to go twice as quickly. From the list above 400 bhp gives approx 12 second ET. If you want to run in the 6's you're going to need somewhere between 2800 and 3200 bhp. Obviously this is not an absolute rule, and there are variables such as weight and car set up to consider.
It may sound a bit far fetched, but in 15 years spent drag racing I found it's not a bad rule of thumb.

StickyMicky

400 is the new 300

bigsinky

eggy,

i bought my car back in 2002 as a standard jap import wrx with 260hp. I knew nothing about subarus but found a great subaru mechanic who has now become a great friend. he has guided my every step when it comes to increasing the power in my car.

this is my 4th engine incarnation. and in eight years of driving to and from events including a few SSOs and two TOTBs i have only had one engine failure when a rod decided to come out the block ay Jurby Drag races in the Isle of Mann.

Back then the cost of upgrading to big power was wallet crushng and you would would cringe at the amout of money i threw at my car to get to about 600bhp. you have to remember it has been three years since my car was out. that 11.2 at 135mph was done June 2007. my mega mega build is three years in the building as i dont have the money i used to have but all major parts are bought and engine has been rebuilt. my car has been stripped now as it was in full trim when these times were done.

i have tried to make this a very special build and again the amount of money i have ploughed into the build over the last three does not make good reading. 2.35 builds tend to be on the expensive side. i dont do the work myself so i have labour costs on top of that though my friend is not hard to pay. It will be my last build and i have tried to make it as bullet proof and as reliable as i can. as Mus has said in a previous post, power and reliability comes at a very expensive cost.

some of the things we were doing back 5 - 6 years ago where also very experimental and that has to be added into the cost equation because sometimes things just didnt work out the way you wanted them to and you have to go back to the drawing board.

I am hoping this build will see me into the 10s. i will be happy with that. it was always my goal. if i can drive to an event on pump fuel, do mid 10s all day consistantly, and drive her home to Belfast, i will be a happy camper.

I also have to bear in mind, someone will ALWAYS be faster than me. I don't have £250K to sink into a car like RCM or some of the big tuning companies. i am a regular bloke, with a regular job, mortgage, bills etc. it is foolish to chase these people.

I do this for the fun of it. a group of 8 -10 of us make regular trips to the mainland to race our cars and have a bit of craic. you also need to remember it's just you against the timing gear at the drag strip and having the power is one thing but getting that power applied to the tarmac is another as you have seen with my times above. A better driver with 600bhp could probably dip into the 10s no probs, but me, a fat bloke who likes his food and beer to much, will need to spend another few thousands to get 700 or 800 hp.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Nail. Head. Hit!

Corresponds exactly to my 6 years experience with a classic Impreza.

It's really not just a case of getting a car to a certain power level; it has to work as a package (suspension, brakes drivetrain etc) It's that bit that often costs the most money.

As an example, my 340bhp classic overwhelmed the std 4pots easily and felt too baggy on the std suspension.

2.1k for AP 6 pots and about 1k for Eibach Coilovers sorted it, but that's 3k before we even start talking about the costs entailed in upgrading the power reliably.

My advice these days is if you want a 400bhp car (and you don't want to fall out with your bank manager), make sure you start with an STi and even then expect to be bent over! If you're starting from a UK Turbo or WRX, expect to be bent over repeatedly, with no lube!!

You play, you pay (sooner or later) as the old saying goes.

Ns04

PS IMHO For a road car, 400bhp is plenty! Forget all boyish notions of having the fastest car around; never gonna happen- there will always be someone quicker; just a question of how much you spend before you realise it!

bigsinky

so true, especially if you are coughing up for labour as well

andythejock01wrx

Good post Shaun.