johnfelstead

S2000 limit handling is not good. I was once asked if i would be interested in trying to come up with a package to make the S2000 handle properly by a very well respected vehicle dynamics test driver, but couldnt be bothered, not enough time spare. I suspect the BRZ is a different proposition based on feedback to date.

my 2.1 accelerates the car faster than the 2.0, so on that basis it must rev up faster in it's working range. Until you get to much shorter rod ratios than the 79mm stroke, you have nothing to worry about, the gain from the extra capacity ouweighs any disadvantages IMHO, especially if you use rods capable of retaining the 8Krpm limit.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Semion

Maximum boost value which I've seen in 1st@1.5bar,2nd@1.6-1.7bar,3rd@1.6-1.7bar,4rd@1.6-1.7bar,5th not tried yet.Like on V-Power and 20% Methanol.

Not sure what fuel you are using at Russia,are you tried methanol or E85 there?

We are running 2.1 and feels amazingly,with better heads we should have better top end.

Agree with 2.1 have more torque,we are tried 2.5L and still think 2.5L is laziest engine,yes with better cams should be great,but this will be same like with 2.0 or 2.1L

About the going with 2.5L i'm still not convinced and we are thinking go with 2.35L and GT35R

Good luck with yours Semion


Jura

Semion

jura11, can you provide me the boost levels on the pump fuel, no meth, no E85? I see on the meth mix the numbers are much better. As for me the task is to find out is it ok with my mapping or not, I have to provide the facts before I have a talk with my mapper. I don't want to look like stupid. So what boost levels are on the pump fuel?

I know some people use meth in Russia, but the fastest cars and competition cars here are using only the sport fuel. My mapper's opinion is that till today still no any professional meth kits on the market, he advices me stay away from meth and just use the race fuel.

2.5 , 2.35, 2.1 they all have 79mm stroke, so the lazy factor is the same. the only difference I see is the block strenght and the capacity.
2.35 Imho is a must have for 600+bhp, on 450-500bhp the plated-straightened 2.5 should be a perfect choice for the street car. And if compare to 2.1 it should have much more better low-end perfomance, what I am frustrated about on 2.1 with MD321T..

TimH

iTrader: (11)

You don't need a "meth kit" - just a source of pure (99.5% or better IIRC) methanol, and add it to your fuel tank in a 10% or 20% mix. Easy to do

jura11

iTrader: (7)

As Tim said,don't bother with any water/methanol kit,simply with Water methanol you can't use pure methanol

Those boost levels we are have too like on V-power/Tesco 99 or Methanol mix.

Car with methanol feels much better,quicker spooling and really feels much smoother on Methanol,we are running 20%.

Race fuel is much expensive and methanol is cheap and plus gains from methanol are just amazing,big plus is car feels much better on meth,spools much quicker

You are running MoTec which can have multiple fuel maps and really I still don't understand why your mapper is against methanol,methanol is great thing,yes is messing with the meth is downside,but worth it this small downside


Jura

Semion

Does the pure methanol mixes well with the petrol? As I know, methanol is a poison and it's better to be accurate when preparing the mix, it's a risk to get blind and it's a risk of a cancer, if to breath the meth vapors.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

methanol mixes easily with petrol and the best way is to have a metered amount in a can which easily dispenses without any splashes into the car at the petrol station. Put meth in first and then fill with required amount of fuel. I find 40litre mixes best i.e. 8litre meth 32litre fuel but any multiples of 1+4 as long as they are exact each time. Meth doesn't mix with octane booster so that needs to be avoided.
It is nasty but you would have to be very careless to have the effects you describe.
Use an open area when dispensing and avoid any contact to the skin, i.e gloves which cover the wrists and lower arm. Treat with respect and there is no need to worry.
Trev

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Methanol injection or water methanol injection is a very expensive option and not necessary for what you are trying to do. They are often used on both petrols and diesels, on petrols to control EGTs where a 50-50 water methanol mix is used and on diesels to produce additional power. They are even used on large marine engines!!!!.
The simplest thing for you to do is find a source of quality methanol. In the UK it is available in 25 litre and 205 litre drums. It is well under a £1 a litre here with no tax I expect. As Trev has pointed out it has to be handled with care and you have to be exact in the amount you are running. Map on a particular mix and stick with that mix.
10 litres of methanol and 50 litres of petrol is a 20% mix.
7.5 litres of methanol and 37.5 litres of petrol.
5 litres of methanol and 25 litres of petrol.

12 litres of methanol to an empty tank which is 62 litres to the brim is a 24% mix.
6 litres methanol and 30 litres petrol is 25%.

Always add the methanol first with the petrol on top to encourage mixing and do not use octane booster as already indicated.
Off the top of my head I do not know Lambda for methanol but it is around 7:1, almost half of that for petrol. You will therefore need to increase the fuelling in the map and if your injectors are close to maxed out you could run out of headroom which will require an upsize in injectors. The methanol mix allows it more ignition advance and therefore more torque and power and it also has the effect of lowering EGTs which on some engines is very welcome.

I understand it can ignite from static from a mobile phone so extreme caution is required and if you ignite it the burn is a clear flame so you do not know it is actually on fire. Just pour a small amount on a bit or tarmac and ignite it. Watch the tarmac bubble then burn and feel the heat. You will soon get the idea that you have no indication of a flame

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

What reaction do you get from the petrol station doing this?

Semion

Russians subaru enthusiasts use water/ethanol injection, vodka is the name of it. You can buy it anywhere cheap and it's not a poison.

Harvey, 10lt meth and 50lt petrol is not 20% mix.
1 part of meth + 4parts of petrol proportion should go for 20%.
10ltrs meth + 40ltrs of petrol = 20% mix. total 50ltrs, 10ltrs of them is meth, 1/5 part of, or 20%.

johnfelstead

Petrol 40 litres
Methanol 10 litres

Total 50 litres

Petrol % = (40/50) x 100 = 80%
Methanol % = (10/50) x 100 = 20%

If you wanted to put 30 litres into the tank you would do the following

30 x 0.8 = 24 litres petrol
30 x 0.2 = 6 litres methanol

If you wanted to put 25 litres into the tank you would do the following

25 x 0.8 = 20 litres petrol
25 x 0.2 = 5 litres methanol

harvey

iTrader: (48)

None. Unless it is less than 5 litres I don't add the methanol at the garage.

10/40 = 25%.
6/24 = 25%
8/40 = 20%
5/25 = 20%.
Basic maths.
The misconception comes because we are talking about a mix ratio which is 1:4 for 25% mix ratio and 1:5 for 20% mix ratio.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Have to disagree Harvey.

If you have 50l in total, then 20% of that is 10l; we need 10l of methanol in that 50l total to make a 20% mix...so 10l/40l is 20% not 25%.

johnfelstead

indeed Tim, sorry harvey but your maths is wrong when working out the % mix.

With a 62 litre total capacity to get 20% of that in methanol and 80% of that in Petrol you would do

62 x 0.8 = 49.6 petrol
62 x 0.2 = 12.4 methanol

What matters most is that whatever method you use during mapping, you stick to.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

I use 1+4 =5 ratio meth/petrol as that is what the car was mapped at, I just see this as 20%inclusion. I also use water/meth injection at 40% water/60%meth, all this yields me 441.6hp/ 480lbsft from MD321H/AVO TMIC which I'm very pleased with, I'm tempted to put on either a T or a SC46 to see what that will do
Trev

Semion

What is the difference in perfomance, if we compare the 10% and 20% methanol mixes ? Does methanol is not good for the rubber parts of the fuel system, injector gaskets, fuel pump, etc? Why people use these different mix ratios? I've heard the methanol provokes corrosion, oxidation of all the fuel system parts, and still no certified test of this type of fuel for our vehicles.

I suppose if you want the maximum of perfomance- go 20% mix
If you want to catch some gain but no worry about the fuel system damage- go 10%mix.
Am I right?


How much is one liter of V-power gasoline in the UK?

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

10% meth was more used a couple of years ago, until it was realised what substantial gains could be had from 20%. The way it was put to me, 10% is no more than an octane booster, 20% is where things happen.
I've run 10% for the last 4 years and 20% for the last 6 months with an increase in fuel pressure to 3.8bar. Just to mention, my fuel pump, which turned out was the original pump but thats another story, was fine, however the plate which supports the pump etc was quite corroded and needs to be replaced. Everything else seems fine. I now have two maps, V-Power/ V-power +20%meth, this was done more for practical purposes rather than concerns over corrosion/oxidisation.
V-power is around £1.39/£1.41p per litre, not long ago £1.49p litre.
Trev

Shaun

This is one of the reasons why I still haven't sorted out booking my car in for the Meth mapping session! Can I really be arsed will all this ****e!

rickya

iTrader: (18)

Couldn't agree more Shaun!

Semion

So, if you don't like to get the fuel system corroded, and you don't want to mess with methanol as a poison, you should go for vodka injection kit! This is effective, race proven mod!

p.s. I got the correction file for my ecu, mapper added some of wastegate solenoid duties on the first gears, and now the turbo spools as it should ! I see 1,5bar on the first gear, 1,6bar on the second, etc.. What I said earlier about the MD321T on 2.1 liter engine - I take my words back, this marriage of 2.1 engine and MD321T is made in heaven !
The downside is that I started to see some det on a high boost in the log files, very few but it is there, don't know may be because of russian **** petrol You know, everytime I visit the gas station I don't know what I will get. Sometimes the gas station worker says " I wouldn't fill your car's tank with our fuel, we are quite empty and there is a lot of **** and water in our petrol reservoirs". All of my friends everyday are asking each other on what gas station the fuel is good today. At all, Russian petrol factories make some strange product, the call it "base petrol", I suppose it is 80RON, and only on local gas stations they add additives (octane boosters) in different amount, making all the line of petroleum products. But these additives are working for a very limited period of time, may be just couple of weeks, then all the octane boosters fly away as light and unstable fraction. Even my father's chainsaw is overheating if he buys the petrol from the nearest gas station, he always asks me to buy him some of "good petrol" from the city . My snowmobile sometimes shows "octane!, octane!" on the dashboard , my girlfriend's father's car exhaust smells like ****, very noticable smell from the cabin, when he buys the GAZPROM petrol, because the amount of brimstone (sulfur , not sure is it the proper enlgish word) is 100 times more than from SURGUT petrol plant He always asks at the gas stations, from what petrol plant is the fuel you sell ? The old cars are ok with no of this smell, the 2005+ cars with the new type of catalyzers are always smelling like **** because of the brimstone
So we have to be brave and true enthusiasts of high power turbocharged cars in these conditions !

Yes, 90% of cars here are bought used, only 10% of people buy brand new cars. In Siberia most part of the cars around are jdm right-hand drive cars. MY2005 car here is fresh and new, if it was not used in Russia and just came from Japan. The 2005 Stis sells here for 18000pounds, brand new Sti is 46000pounds, most of people work for 200-500pounds/month.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

sulphur is the British English word.

Oh, and it's sure - without an h. British English, on the face of it, can appear inconsistent as regards its 'rules'. Must really confuse non-nationals.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Semion

I've been in Russia and i've work in Russia(Vladivostok) for few months for one Czech company few years ago.I drove there only Lada Niva and UAZ and not sure about the fuel,but few my friends from Slovakia buying fuel from UA and really is not the best fuel...

Glad you have sorted boost levels

About the vodka injection kit,how much cost there now vodka?

Last time when i've been at UA(Ukraine) 1L cost less than £2(Stolichnaya cost around £6),now not sure


Jura

Semion

Last week Putin raised the minimum price of vodka from 95roubles to 125 roubles per a 0,5l bottle. (from 1.9pounds to 2,5pounds per a bottle).
The quality of petrol in Moscow, Ukraine and Siberia differs, many cars came here from Moscow, drivers notice the fuel quality difference in eastern and western parts of Russia.

I know some fast cars here with the AEM water/methanol kit fitted, they are all running on vodka injection, and they are happy with this mod. Mappers here always making the a/f a bit rich, because of variable quality of our pump fuel, and the rear bumper of that cars is always black around the exhaust tip, if you are driving a car behind them, you clearly see how that cars permanently expectorates the black smoke.
With the vodka injection, you can run correct and right a/f ratio with much less risk of det and without that black exhaust smoke.

Semion

Enough stories about my motherland here! After getting the power that shakes my knees, I feel that I need a stronger brakes and a stiffer suspension. My car is a 16" gravel spec C with the subaru 4-pot brake calipers, not with the brembos. I have installed Sti braided brake lines, cusco master cylinder stopper, project mu HC+ 0-900C pads, but still think that the bigger brakes should perform better. Which way to go? Not to hurt the brain myself and just get the OE brembos or go farther with the 6-pot big brakes like endless, project mu, jbt, ap racing etc..? These 6-pots should be sealed, reliable, fit OE 17 inch wheels without any spacers, fit OE brembo brake disks, and the brake pads should not cost like they are made of gold. May be someone here can suggest me the way to go, any information is appreciated.

As for suspension setup, I bought subaru pink "tuned by arai" adjustable coilovers, 15mm low down, about 50% more stiffer pink springs. These are OE from S203, S204, typeRA versions of the Sti. Hope to get more confident ride on this setup.

I am still thinking about the AST coilovers, I did not try them but know that Litchfield type 20 and type 25 cars are running on AST coilovers. What Litchfield was guided by to choose the AST?

beliblisk

iTrader: (16)

AP 330s fit under 17"

jura11

iTrader: (7)

We are running K-Sport 8pots 356mm(they will fit under 17",but you will need low offset alloys or low ET) at front with PF Z-rated pads and they now do job,we are tried DS2500 and we are been little bit disappointed with them

K-sport will do job nicely for less,plus you don't need them rebuild,because those not using dust seals such as AP,Brembo etc.

About the coilovers,you should start with ARB,ALK(Anti Lift Kit)etc.before you go with coilovers and coilovers i would go with the Nitron 2-way or KW V3,which will do maybe better job than AST

If you will be lowering the car,would have look too for Whiteline KCA313 Front Roll centre/bump steer - correction kit


Jura

harvey

iTrader: (48)

John, Tim and others : Thanks for that.
Until February of this year I worked on the basis that 20% methanol mix with an empty fuel tank (60 litres) was 12 litres of methanol, 50 litres at 20% was 10 litres as we all now agree.
When it came to mapping a particular car someone I respect well asked me about the methanol mix and then informed me that 12 litres of methanol in a 60 litre tank was indeed 25%. He then went into great detail to convince me this was the case on the basis of one part methanol and four parts petrol, ie. 12 litres methanol and 48 litres petrol.
Now I have copied this page to the guy twice asking for his comment but as none has been forthcoming I guess there is a lack of conviction and I am going back to what I previously did and will conform with the norm.
I see where the confusion comes from, 1/4 = 25% but the interpretation is 20% of tank capacity ie. 12/60 = 1/5 = 20%.
Anyway nothing lost on my part as I continued with my previous ratio which was actually 12/62. How **** is that ?
Humble apologies

TimH

iTrader: (11)

No apologies needed Harvey

As has been said, the MOST important thing is to use the same mix as it was mapped on, regardless of whether that is 12.5%, 20%, 25% or whatever

I went for 10% simply because it is easy to bung 5l of meth in with 45l of VPower making a 50l refill, done shortly after the yellow light comes on; and 10l gave me more than enough power from the build...although I am tempted to try a 20% map simply to try and improve spool

johnfelstead

Cheers Harvey, no need to apologise though! We had this very conversation on 22B not so long ago, some of the maths people use is quite amusing.

johnfelstead

I've found the quality of the whiteline roll centre control bottom joints to be utter junk. They lasted 2 months on my car and less than that on another i know of. I now use the Super Pro equivilent kit.