dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yes it will aim for stoich but it will do that by using the fuel correction (short term) and fuel learning (long term)

If the induction is marginally smaller in diameter it will be taking fuel or as the maf voltage for the required flow will be higher.

Assuming the kit is better flowing it may take out fuel in the low end because of the diameter difference but it may transpose to flowing more air at some point in the range.

The learning trims in this case would be carried forward into open loop and may have very destructive effects.

At the end of the day though it is no skin off my back if you think xyz because the facts and experiences of mapping hundreds of cars are very simple. Is it worth the risk of an engine for the £350 for the remap.

sponners

iTrader: (4)

some good points made, but I think it boils down to advise given as a trader or advise as a community forum member.

I understand why traders do have to be very carefull how they word things and do need to cover all bases (plus may make some more business recomending checks/remaps)

How many impreza owners on here are blissfully unaware of the adverse effects that fitting a induction kit alone can cause yet 95% of these have never had issues with their motor - which goes to show how versatile the standard map is and can usually cope with large changes,

fitting a uprated intercooler will have less effect on the map than said induction kit.


but yes numerous mods can add up and maybe push things to far, so the the sake of £30 or so for a quick AFR/det check on the road is worthwhile.


*side note*
Do any mappers on here offer mapping with ecuflash as this is a lot cheaper than ecutek.

for evos traders start at about £200 for a full map, and you can get a good amateur mapper to do it anywhere from free upto several beer tokens.

Splitpin

Not quite sure why you're identifying that as a delineation. I'm not a trader, yet my general view of this subject corresponds far more closely with that put forward by the likes of Harvey and Duncan than it does with your own.

Not quite sure your point works as advertised there. There are, as you suggest, no doubt a significant number of owners who blithely bolt major modifications on without realising the consequences. The problem your point has is that this doesn't, in itself, demonstrate that the standard map "can cope with large changes", it just demonstrates that a significant percentage of owners are ignorant of the way their cars work, and don't give a f&&k as long as nothing's obviously wrong.

The thing you don't know is how many of those owners are either materially reducing the operational life of their engines as a result of running those unmapped modifications, or indeed how many of them suffer failures either directly caused (or contributed to) by them.

How long have you been on here? There are a variety of non-Ecutek mappers around. Duncan's one of them.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I find that offensive. My advice is based on my experience and engineering knowledge which is considerable. The advice I give is not to cover any bases, it is honest, down to earth advice, usually advice I am not obliged to give but I feel an inherant desire to assist fellow Subaru owners. Obviously an alien feeling to some.
Once all the facts are presented and all the questions answered it is no skin off my nose whether the advice is acted on. There is hardly a week goes by we do not see or hear of a car or engine because someone failed to take the advice they were freely given days, weeks or months ago. That can be good business but not what we are looking for. I just accept there are lots of guys out there that know better than me and let them get on with it at the end of the day.

As regards air filters, in my early days of Subaru ownership on my 18 month old STi 6 Wagon, I picked up number 2 piston having changed to an APS CAK at that time. It was a Sunday morning and I let the car warm up on an easy drive then gave it two or three bursts of WOT on a country road with never more than 5 or 600 yards of straight. When I returned to the yard I had done a total of 11 miles. A lot of time and effort was put in to finding out why this had happened and along with Bob Rawle we presented our facts to APS who knew it was nothing to do with their CAK. They were very negative and I was not even looking for the engine repair cost from them. I even had their Engineering Director come to visit me and I spent a couple of days with him in Darlington. The APS CAK was the thing to have at the time and when Bob and I passed on our knowledge to the rest of the Subaru community, quite a lot of experts poo-pood our idea. This was around 2001. APS continued to sell their CAKs without warnings that the least that was required was a MAF rescaling and that firmed up my view of what APS were about. Later they did put a very mild warning sticker on their CAKs and I am not sure they sell them now. In the meantime all the experts that had poo-pood our idea became even greater experts and now it is common knowledge you cannot fit a CAK without a MAF rescaling as a minimum or better still a remap.

As I have said above you cannot fit the Hybrid GDB kit which involves a variation in the MAF sensor location without a remap and on any MAF sensor based system you only have to make a small change in inlet tract length, location within the inlet tract or slight angle change to the inlet tract before the MAF and you have the recipe for disaster.

I would like to thank APS for the unfortunate experience because without it and the negative attitude of the experts at the time, I would never have been involved in Subaru development as I have been since 2001, Matt Clark would never have built me an engine that went on to produce 585 bhp on 2 litres at a time when the experts knew that 400 bhp out of a 2 litre Subaru was impossible.

I have a stack of front mount intercoolers here and if anybody wants to fit one without a remap that in my honest opinion is very unwise for all the reasons I have explained above but your money, your choice.
You will have a lot more chance getting away with it on an inefficient intercooler system.