An agreed system to deal with scammers.
07 August 2010, 12:03 AM
#31
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Keep the ideas coming guys. 
I have said earlier that I do like the idea of a 'scamming' section. Not just a name and shame, but a section to advise people what to look out for and how to help/protect themselves. As Kieran says, we can do things to help, but members need to help themselves as well, we cannot hold peoples hands.
As it stands (for clarity) the For Sale/Wanted area is for paying members only. If it were up to me, the area would be exclusive to paying members (starting threads and posting on them) as yet you only have to pay to post a new thread. I am also tempted to go as far to say lock the whole area down so people can't even see threads unless they pay. This approach would get alot of criticism as it would be viewed as 'money making' but believe me, that is not my intention. Many potential scammers would be put off having to pay to trade/ give out certain details by becoming a paid up member (as it stands) and it also would end the whole PM issue. That however also comes back to the issue of holding hands again.
We have a system at the moment whereby people have to pay to advertise, yet despite that and stickies informing users of that, people ignore it and advertise elsewhere, and despite the information as to why this was done, people still happily buy off those/show interest. This is as far as we have got so far, and yet just these rules alone are totally ignored by some. Contrary to the belief of some that it was done to generate revenue, we made it paid members only to cut down on scamming, to deter scammers, but members need to look at what is already here and stick with it. If people can't read the information already here, I fear any more would be ignored.
I have said earlier that I do like the idea of a 'scamming' section. Not just a name and shame, but a section to advise people what to look out for and how to help/protect themselves. As Kieran says, we can do things to help, but members need to help themselves as well, we cannot hold peoples hands.
As it stands (for clarity) the For Sale/Wanted area is for paying members only. If it were up to me, the area would be exclusive to paying members (starting threads and posting on them) as yet you only have to pay to post a new thread. I am also tempted to go as far to say lock the whole area down so people can't even see threads unless they pay. This approach would get alot of criticism as it would be viewed as 'money making' but believe me, that is not my intention. Many potential scammers would be put off having to pay to trade/ give out certain details by becoming a paid up member (as it stands) and it also would end the whole PM issue. That however also comes back to the issue of holding hands again.
We have a system at the moment whereby people have to pay to advertise, yet despite that and stickies informing users of that, people ignore it and advertise elsewhere, and despite the information as to why this was done, people still happily buy off those/show interest. This is as far as we have got so far, and yet just these rules alone are totally ignored by some. Contrary to the belief of some that it was done to generate revenue, we made it paid members only to cut down on scamming, to deter scammers, but members need to look at what is already here and stick with it. If people can't read the information already here, I fear any more would be ignored.
07 August 2010, 12:37 AM
#33
Thanks.
I hope I made some sense. 
Thinking more, and going by other suggestions by members and mods....
Have a 'New Members' section. Restrict new members to that section to at least introduce themselves and build up x amount of posts (this relies on people talking to them). It gives us a better idea of new people rather than them just slipping in unnoticed and it makes new people feel welcomed.
Then they gain access to the main areas, but not the trading area (that would still stay paid only).
In an ideal world, what I would like is a site where people want to be part of a decent community, integrating with people and hopefully getting help or enjoyment. What I don't want is a glossed up e-bay or classifieds, and closing down the trading area will have helped there to some extent. I guess if software allows, we could have it that despite charging to use the trade area, you still had to have a set amount of posts before being allowed access (i.e. x amount of posts and paid membership). This would hopefully suggest that a member wanted to be a part of the community too, this would be difficult however, as even with a new member section, as mods we still couldn't realistically keep track of all their posts when you consider how many there are. Maybe someone can suggest a workable idea of keeping track.
Not all scammers will be newbies and I want to stress that, as the last thing I want new members to think is that they are not trusted. However, maybe something like this would put off those just wanting to take the ****. The combination of paying and building up posts could make it more off putting to chancers. The more difficult we make it for those who just wish to use the place to sell and those wishing to scam, the better.
All that coupled with a scam section... buying/selling advice etc.
But I will continue to say, whatever does or does not happen, people need to take responsibility for their own choices and actions. We can only help.
07 August 2010, 07:39 AM
#34
What happens if you leave positive feedback, before getting something fitted, then realising it's no good? I have done that twice, but by then it's too late, and because I went to view the items I couldn't really do anything about it. One was a brand new looking turbo on the outside, I was sent pics, went to view it, didn't know what to look for, bought it, went to get it fitted, all the blades except onehad a chunk missing, went back to the seller and he said there was nothing wrong with it, after zooming in on the pics he sent, you could see the chunks missing, however by then I had left positive feedback, secondly I went and viewed a full exhaust system, bought it, left positive feedback, put it on the car and the baffles had gone, when the exhaust was off you could shake and it would sound like a rain shaker, again, didn't do anything about it as there was no point, I went to view it, in my lack of knowledge of what to look for, bought it, left positive feedback and left with two no good items. I guess I could have avoided it, but what could you do if you leave good feedback and then the item turns out to be no good, I suppose I should have waited for the items to be fitted or to take someone who knew what they were looking for with me
07 August 2010, 08:26 AM
#35
I agree with mostly everything on here but it's easy to be accused of scamming I have been myself on here I sold some breaks on here a year or so ago, the guy got a absolute bargain, any way he received the brakes special delivery, 48hrs later I get aloud of attitude saying I've ripped him off this that and the other accusing me of scamming him into buy breakes with missing parts, which I did not, they were removed from my car into the box and down to the post office, cut along story short there were bolts missing I had to cough up cash to replace them, later finding out that the box arrived with a hole in it and some bolts fell out, so remember some accidents do happen in the post we are not all people out to rip each other off, please remember this, before pointing fingers, I have bought lots of things from respectable members from here hastle free.
Sorry to rant on but thought I'd get my pennies worth
Sorry to rant on but thought I'd get my pennies worth
07 August 2010, 09:07 AM
#36
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on the mlr now due to some scamming incidents over there, all for sale ads have to have the item location and a contact number. Only a small thing but it enables the buyer to contact the seller directly etc
07 August 2010, 10:00 AM
#37
Agree with the rest
07 August 2010, 10:20 AM
#39
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What about.....
"Not selling things on Scoobynet!" instead advertise on Ebay and the like, at least that way there's more chance of getting your money back.
"Not selling things on Scoobynet!" instead advertise on Ebay and the like, at least that way there's more chance of getting your money back.
07 August 2010, 10:55 AM
#40
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Imo Ebay is full of scammers, and is also very expensive to use .. the cost of listing something on Ebay puts me off , and I'm sure many other people ,since there's also no guarantee it will sell .
I agree with the idea of limited sections for newbies or unpaid members . I have been on and off Scoobynet since I bought my 1st scoob 7 years ago and proud to contribute via my membership to help build a better community. Why people object I dont know.
Having used the iTrader system on here I do think it's a good idea but having had 2 buyers of parts that I have sold to them not leave any feedback I agree it should be promoted/pushed more.
I'm sorry I haven't any good ideas to help but want to say well done to Lisa and other Moderators for at least trying to help and erradicate the problem.
Steve
07 August 2010, 02:15 PM
#41
Good. We are starting to get positive feedback now and forming the herringbone of a way forward.
Lisa post 30. This has to be a move in the right direction and you clearly have a lot of support for your framework of an idea. Can you progress this within Scoobynet?
Sabas/David: Another good point which we need to be able to take in to account and what Jay says regards MLR is very valid.
Good move Shep.
I am sure that with Lisa's suggestions at post 30 Scoobynet would help rid itself of a lot of the chaff it has attracted in recent times. The thing is the headline figures for posts or members may go down although obviously the quality of the membership would go up.
I suppose for the management it is a balancing act between big numbers to attract advertising revenue and quality membership and a happy family.
Lisa post 30. This has to be a move in the right direction and you clearly have a lot of support for your framework of an idea. Can you progress this within Scoobynet?
Sabas/David: Another good point which we need to be able to take in to account and what Jay says regards MLR is very valid.
Good move Shep.
I am sure that with Lisa's suggestions at post 30 Scoobynet would help rid itself of a lot of the chaff it has attracted in recent times. The thing is the headline figures for posts or members may go down although obviously the quality of the membership would go up.
I suppose for the management it is a balancing act between big numbers to attract advertising revenue and quality membership and a happy family.
07 August 2010, 06:12 PM
#43
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Member for 6 months to post items for sale but not for wanted, as people who 'want' are generaly after that item, though there should be an agreement between those 'wanting' and those selling too the 'wanter' so there is no issues with time wasters, though there should be checks in the wanted for those using it too sell.
Agree with the rest
Agree with the rest
Anders
07 August 2010, 06:53 PM
#45
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One thing that disappoints me a little, is the lack of interest in this thread. For so many complaints about scamming/members being ripped off I sadly see in other threads, I would have thought people would have jumped at the chance of putting ideas forward. Certainly more than have been so far. Ok, some ideas may be deemed unworkable, but this is a chance to have a voice, and anything that can be implemented, I am sure would be.
TX.
07 August 2010, 06:56 PM
#46
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TX.
07 August 2010, 07:08 PM
#47
I definaty think a list of definite people not to trade with, or, for example, the username and how many people they have ripped off, regardless of good/bad feedback, and if anything gets sorted, add that to it, have it stuck up in for sale, a corsa forum I used to use, did that
or where it says whether you are a newbie etc on your avatar bit, can't you put something such as, under investigation or something along the lines of that?
or where it says whether you are a newbie etc on your avatar bit, can't you put something such as, under investigation or something along the lines of that?
07 August 2010, 07:08 PM
#48
Have a scammers sticky in For Sale Section that lists out know offenders (one strike & you're out ie appear on the list). To make sure it gets read, when anyone posts anything for sale the scammers sticky appears as the first post with their item for sale as the 2nd.
TX.
TX.
The only problem with a scammers list is sometimes what appears to be a scam or someone being ripped off in fact isn't. Sometimes delays happen or even personal reasons could come up (granted communication should be made), then there are problems with the postal service/deliveries. Also, I have seen in the past threads that appeared someone had been ripped off only for it to turn out not to be the case.
I do see your point, but considering the variables I personally feel a subsection could be fairer, whereby issues could be posted up and if/when resolved the outcome would be posted. Tha way members can read the thread and outcome and make up their own mind. I think we would be on very shaky ground if we outed people as scammers and it turned out we were wrong for some reason.
07 August 2010, 07:12 PM
#49
I definaty think a list of definite people not to trade with, or, for example, the username and how many people they have ripped off, regardless of good/bad feedback, and if anything gets sorted, add that to it, have it stuck up in for sale, a corsa forum I used to use, did that
or where it says whether you are a newbie etc on your avatar bit, can't you put something such as, under investigation or something along the lines of that?
or where it says whether you are a newbie etc on your avatar bit, can't you put something such as, under investigation or something along the lines of that?
07 August 2010, 07:20 PM
#50
Good. We are starting to get positive feedback now and forming the herringbone of a way forward.
Lisa post 30. This has to be a move in the right direction and you clearly have a lot of support for your framework of an idea. Can you progress this within Scoobynet?
Sabas/David: Another good point which we need to be able to take in to account and what Jay says regards MLR is very valid.
Good move Shep.
I am sure that with Lisa's suggestions at post 30 Scoobynet would help rid itself of a lot of the chaff it has attracted in recent times. The thing is the headline figures for posts or members may go down although obviously the quality of the membership would go up.
I suppose for the management it is a balancing act between big numbers to attract advertising revenue and quality membership and a happy family.
Lisa post 30. This has to be a move in the right direction and you clearly have a lot of support for your framework of an idea. Can you progress this within Scoobynet?
Sabas/David: Another good point which we need to be able to take in to account and what Jay says regards MLR is very valid.
Good move Shep.
I am sure that with Lisa's suggestions at post 30 Scoobynet would help rid itself of a lot of the chaff it has attracted in recent times. The thing is the headline figures for posts or members may go down although obviously the quality of the membership would go up.
I suppose for the management it is a balancing act between big numbers to attract advertising revenue and quality membership and a happy family.
I am glad people are getting on board and sharing their thoughts, suggestions and support.
07 August 2010, 07:54 PM
#53
I'm not in the know about computer/technical stuff, but that would draw attention to the sticky. Still can't guarantee people would actually read it but it's worth considering (if it's possible), then if people still ignore it's on their own head.
The only problem with a scammers list is sometimes what appears to be a scam or someone being ripped off in fact isn't. Sometimes delays happen or even personal reasons could come up (granted communication should be made), then there are problems with the postal service/deliveries. Also, I have seen in the past threads that appeared someone had been ripped off only for it to turn out not to be the case.
I do see your point, but considering the variables I personally feel a subsection could be fairer, whereby issues could be posted up and if/when resolved the outcome would be posted. Tha way members can read the thread and outcome and make up their own mind. I think we would be on very shaky ground if we outed people as scammers and it turned out we were wrong for some reason.
The only problem with a scammers list is sometimes what appears to be a scam or someone being ripped off in fact isn't. Sometimes delays happen or even personal reasons could come up (granted communication should be made), then there are problems with the postal service/deliveries. Also, I have seen in the past threads that appeared someone had been ripped off only for it to turn out not to be the case.
I do see your point, but considering the variables I personally feel a subsection could be fairer, whereby issues could be posted up and if/when resolved the outcome would be posted. Tha way members can read the thread and outcome and make up their own mind. I think we would be on very shaky ground if we outed people as scammers and it turned out we were wrong for some reason.
The scommers list could comprise of two sections
1. Known confirmed scammers
2. Accounts under investgation suspected scammers
Accounts in two get pushed either way - into group 1. Known scammers or placed full in the clear once a misunderstanding has been cleared up
Steve
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