Spec C' worth the extra?
20 August 2010, 06:12 PM
#181
My two penneth worth ?
Had an 03 JDM STi (no DCCD) which was a good car, personally I always found the understeer the limiting factor. I changed the car for a 2006 STi Spec C V-LTD (Toshi Arai version with the blue interior) When I picked the car up it had a full exhaust system and had been mapped 346bhp / 377 ft lbs and it was great. I believe that no matter how much money I could have spent on the 03 car it would never have been a match for the 06 Spec C.
I drive my car at least 2 weekends per month around the lake district with friends on bumpy twisty roads and it is truely awesome, I have since added 6 pot APs, Rays 57M wheels, Whiteline ARBs & ALK, Litchfields LM420 S60, 800cc injectors & RCM induction kit. All of the above has made the car feel an awful lot better all round. I am starting to do track days so I wanted to improve the cars stopping power, grip & power. At some point I will add new suspension.
The discusion of Spec C or not for me was/is simple, if you want a scooby with comfort go for a WRX, if you want more the UK STi, more > JDM STi, more Spec C. We all spend money modding our cars to make em better and personally I reckon Subaru have tested there own cars and made the enhancements that they feel are best.
Must add I have never been in a JDM STi Hawkeye to know the back to back difference, but getting the next model up (JDM STi > Spec C) is usually cheaper than modding the car yourself?
so in my opinion yes it is worth it, and I think that everytime i get in it 
Had an 03 JDM STi (no DCCD) which was a good car, personally I always found the understeer the limiting factor. I changed the car for a 2006 STi Spec C V-LTD (Toshi Arai version with the blue interior) When I picked the car up it had a full exhaust system and had been mapped 346bhp / 377 ft lbs and it was great. I believe that no matter how much money I could have spent on the 03 car it would never have been a match for the 06 Spec C.
I drive my car at least 2 weekends per month around the lake district with friends on bumpy twisty roads and it is truely awesome, I have since added 6 pot APs, Rays 57M wheels, Whiteline ARBs & ALK, Litchfields LM420 S60, 800cc injectors & RCM induction kit. All of the above has made the car feel an awful lot better all round. I am starting to do track days so I wanted to improve the cars stopping power, grip & power. At some point I will add new suspension.
The discusion of Spec C or not for me was/is simple, if you want a scooby with comfort go for a WRX, if you want more the UK STi, more > JDM STi, more Spec C. We all spend money modding our cars to make em better and personally I reckon Subaru have tested there own cars and made the enhancements that they feel are best.
Must add I have never been in a JDM STi Hawkeye to know the back to back difference, but getting the next model up (JDM STi > Spec C) is usually cheaper than modding the car yourself?
so in my opinion yes it is worth it, and I think that everytime i get in it
20 August 2010, 06:24 PM
#182
My two penneth worth ?
Had an 03 JDM STi (no DCCD) which was a good car, personally I always found the understeer the limiting factor. I changed the car for a 2006 STi Spec C V-LTD (Toshi Arai version with the blue interior) When I picked the car up it had a full exhaust system and had been mapped 346bhp / 377 ft lbs and it was great. I believe that no matter how much money I could have spent on the 03 car it would never have been a match for the 06 Spec C.
I drive my car at least 2 weekends per month around the lake district with friends on bumpy twisty roads and it is truely awesome, I have since added 6 pot APs, Rays 57M wheels, Whiteline ARBs & ALK, Litchfields LM420 S60, 800cc injectors & RCM induction kit. All of the above has made the car feel an awful lot better all round. I am starting to do track days so I wanted to improve the cars stopping power, grip & power. At some point I will add new suspension.
The discusion of Spec C or not for me was/is simple, if you want a scooby with comfort go for a WRX, if you want more the UK STi, more > JDM STi, more Spec C. We all spend money modding our cars to make em better and personally I reckon Subaru have tested there own cars and made the enhancements that they feel are best.
Must add I have never been in a JDM STi Hawkeye to know the back to back difference, but getting the next model up (JDM STi > Spec C) is usually cheaper than modding the car yourself? so in my opinion yes it is worth it, and I think that everytime i get in it
Had an 03 JDM STi (no DCCD) which was a good car, personally I always found the understeer the limiting factor. I changed the car for a 2006 STi Spec C V-LTD (Toshi Arai version with the blue interior) When I picked the car up it had a full exhaust system and had been mapped 346bhp / 377 ft lbs and it was great. I believe that no matter how much money I could have spent on the 03 car it would never have been a match for the 06 Spec C.
I drive my car at least 2 weekends per month around the lake district with friends on bumpy twisty roads and it is truely awesome, I have since added 6 pot APs, Rays 57M wheels, Whiteline ARBs & ALK, Litchfields LM420 S60, 800cc injectors & RCM induction kit. All of the above has made the car feel an awful lot better all round. I am starting to do track days so I wanted to improve the cars stopping power, grip & power. At some point I will add new suspension.
The discusion of Spec C or not for me was/is simple, if you want a scooby with comfort go for a WRX, if you want more the UK STi, more > JDM STi, more Spec C. We all spend money modding our cars to make em better and personally I reckon Subaru have tested there own cars and made the enhancements that they feel are best.
Must add I have never been in a JDM STi Hawkeye to know the back to back difference, but getting the next model up (JDM STi > Spec C) is usually cheaper than modding the car yourself?
so in my opinion yes it is worth it, and I think that everytime i get in it I am going to go for one ,but can't decide which one.
20 August 2010, 06:38 PM
#183
^^^ you would be best talking to Richard Bulmer 
who mapped my car, he originally stated that he thought the LM400 was the best for a road car, you dont need the injectors & bits n bobs. When he finished my car he'd changed his mind. He stated that the trade off for a little more lag is more than made up by the extra power, he also said you would not believe so much more power could be made by a turbo only slightly larger
Again I am going to be biased, but after talking to others and reading a lot of write ups (thanks Shaun) I am coming to the conclusion that what I have now is spot on > 420bhp / 390 ft lbs 
Lee.
who mapped my car, he originally stated that he thought the LM400 was the best for a road car, you dont need the injectors & bits n bobs. When he finished my car he'd changed his mind. He stated that the trade off for a little more lag is more than made up by the extra power, he also said you would not believe so much more power could be made by a turbo only slightly larger Again I am going to be biased, but after talking to others and reading a lot of write ups (thanks Shaun
) I am coming to the conclusion that what I have now is spot on > 420bhp / 390 ft lbs Lee.
20 August 2010, 06:54 PM
#184
^^^ you would be best talking to Richard Bulmer who mapped my car, he originally stated that he thought the LM400 was the best for a road car, you dont need the injectors & bits n bobs. When he finished my car he'd changed his mind. He stated that the trade off for a little more lag is more than made up by the extra power, he also said you would not believe so much more power could be made by a turbo only slightly larger
Again I am going to be biased, but after talking to others and reading a lot of write ups (thanks Shaun) I am coming to the conclusion that what I have now is spot on > 420bhp / 390 ft lbs
Lee.
who mapped my car, he originally stated that he thought the LM400 was the best for a road car, you dont need the injectors & bits n bobs. When he finished my car he'd changed his mind. He stated that the trade off for a little more lag is more than made up by the extra power, he also said you would not believe so much more power could be made by a turbo only slightly larger Again I am going to be biased, but after talking to others and reading a lot of write ups (thanks Shaun
) I am coming to the conclusion that what I have now is spot on > 420bhp / 390 ft lbs Lee.
The standard injectors max out at 360bhp not sure how your getting more power ?
How do you compare it to stage one as your driving the car and you'll have a better view?
Immy
20 August 2010, 07:09 PM
#186
Scooby Regular
Stevie,
Against each discipline as "best fit", I would expect the Spec C to be sharper in both scenarios. When you start to push on you may notice the weight difference, but in general handling they should be very very similar. However, for track use I would prefer a Spec C and for road use a STI.
There are differences in the centre diff torque split as well between with the Hawkeye STI's and Spec C's. In theory this will make the MY06 cars (regardless of whether they are Spec C or STI) understeer more. I have not noticed this with my Hawkeye, but doubt you would on the road anyhow, whilst in auto mode, unless you were really giving it a fistful. Perhaps on track it maybe more evident.
You also have differences with track wide and yaw sensor inputs between a MY03 (STI & Spec C not having these) and a late Blobeye > having them. This makes a difference as well.
You really need to compare year for year.
Lee,
There would be a massive difference between a non DCCD car and one that has DCCD, let alone one with wider track etc. No wonder you see a massive difference. I would suggest you would of seen a similar difference had you gone for a MY06 JDM STI instead.
As regards to the whiteline goodies and suspension. I will not be going down that route until I am confident I have got the most out of the kit that is already on the car. The OE stuff is so capable most of the time, that the only thing I will be doing is to increase camber at the front and rear. Certainly no point in changing general handling stuff for our crap roads.
Against each discipline as "best fit", I would expect the Spec C to be sharper in both scenarios. When you start to push on you may notice the weight difference, but in general handling they should be very very similar. However, for track use I would prefer a Spec C and for road use a STI.
There are differences in the centre diff torque split as well between with the Hawkeye STI's and Spec C's. In theory this will make the MY06 cars (regardless of whether they are Spec C or STI) understeer more. I have not noticed this with my Hawkeye, but doubt you would on the road anyhow, whilst in auto mode, unless you were really giving it a fistful. Perhaps on track it maybe more evident.
You also have differences with track wide and yaw sensor inputs between a MY03 (STI & Spec C not having these) and a late Blobeye > having them. This makes a difference as well.
You really need to compare year for year.
Lee,
There would be a massive difference between a non DCCD car and one that has DCCD, let alone one with wider track etc. No wonder you see a massive difference.
I would suggest you would of seen a similar difference had you gone for a MY06 JDM STI instead.As regards to the whiteline goodies and suspension. I will not be going down that route until I am confident I have got the most out of the kit that is already on the car. The OE stuff is so capable most of the time, that the only thing I will be doing is to increase camber at the front and rear. Certainly no point in changing general handling stuff for our crap roads.
20 August 2010, 07:11 PM
#188
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Had an 03 JDM STi (no DCCD) which was a good car, personally I always found the understeer the limiting factor. I changed the car for a 2006 STi Spec C V-LTD (Toshi Arai version with the blue interior) When I picked the car up it had a full exhaust system and had been mapped 346bhp / 377 ft lbs and it was great. I believe that no matter how much money I could have spent on the 03 car it would never have been a match for the 06 Spec C.
but I have always said that unless you REALLY want a spec c, the standard model would suit 99% of the people better (well after 2005 anyway 
)Its ashame that there are not more standard MY05 onward JDM cars imported, I think they would sell a fair bit better than the Spec C's as you have the comfort and the reliability of the twin scroll engine
Tony
20 August 2010, 07:15 PM
#190
Sorry fella a bit of a misunderstanding > the LM400 apparently does not need the injectors and bits n bobs. I bought my Turbo, Injectors, 3 port valve and other items from Ian Litchfield () I then bought the RCM induction kit to make sure it could breathe
The difference from the way it was to the way it is now was worth the money all day long, my only concern was that I wanted more, but as stated if you talk to others the more you get the more the sacrifice you have to make as an everyday road car? (personally I dont subscribe to 370/420bhp being more than enough for a road car because it isnt
)
It would be interesting to have a go in one of the Alan Jeffries 2.1 stroked cars because they sound awesome, but I believe they dont rev as much as the 2.0L?
) I then bought the RCM induction kit to make sure it could breathe The difference from the way it was to the way it is now was worth the money all day long, my only concern was that I wanted more, but as stated if you talk to others the more you get the more the sacrifice you have to make as an everyday road car? (personally I dont subscribe to 370/420bhp being more than enough for a road car because it isnt
)It would be interesting to have a go in one of the Alan Jeffries 2.1 stroked cars because they sound awesome, but I believe they dont rev as much as the 2.0L?
20 August 2010, 07:21 PM
#191
I have a vf42 on mine am not sure what sort of power it would be good for. I had an S204 mapped for a customer and it went up by 7ltb from standard after it had a 3" turbo back exhaust system induction kit and remap.
Immy
Last edited by juggers; 20 August 2010 at 07:26 PM.
20 August 2010, 07:24 PM
#192
Scooby Regular
The LM400 will max out the standard pink injectors if requested. This will mean that the turbo will not be made full benefit of, but saying that, I have been reliably informed that it will still make you smile if you go down the route of sticking with OE injectors.
Lee,
What do you determine as being "enough" then for road use. Not in power terms, but in what the car achieves. How do you measure it?
As regards to revs.... they are not everything. Unless you have a turbo big enough to exploit the available revs, you are wasting them in essence. To explot the 8200rpm rev limit on your car, you would need a turbo bigger than a GT35! My GT3076 (biggest GT30 core) made peak power at around 7k.
Lee,
What do you determine as being "enough" then for road use. Not in power terms, but in what the car achieves. How do you measure it?
As regards to revs.... they are not everything. Unless you have a turbo big enough to exploit the available revs, you are wasting them in essence. To explot the 8200rpm rev limit on your car, you would need a turbo bigger than a GT35!
My GT3076 (biggest GT30 core) made peak power at around 7k.
20 August 2010, 07:26 PM
#193
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Shaun, I always thought that it was torque that made a nice road car BHP is for straight line freaks 
(though a trip to Richard Bulmer could be on the books )
Tony
BHP is for straight line freaks (though a trip to Richard Bulmer could be on the books )Tony
20 August 2010, 07:30 PM
#194
Scooby Regular
Immy,
Richard Bulmer did a LM400 conversion on a car not long back. The only things the car had were panel filter, decat and fuel pump. TMIC, injectors and 2 port boost solenoid were all stock. It went extremely well.
Keep an eye on my project thread. The LM400 will be going on in a couple of weeks and you will get all the information you need. Once that has taken place I will be trying a new spec from Litchfield Imports which compliment the existing range. Based on their development car I drove this week..... the additional range will rock!
Richard Bulmer did a LM400 conversion on a car not long back. The only things the car had were panel filter, decat and fuel pump. TMIC, injectors and 2 port boost solenoid were all stock. It went extremely well.
Keep an eye on my project thread. The LM400 will be going on in a couple of weeks and you will get all the information you need. Once that has taken place I will be trying a new spec from Litchfield Imports which compliment the existing range. Based on their development car I drove this week..... the additional range will rock!
20 August 2010, 07:34 PM
#195
Scooby Regular
Tony,
If it was all about torque, then why are we not all driving diesels!
From someone that had over 550ftlb.... you CAN have too much for the road!
Get down to Tracktive and tell Rich I sent you.... I need to build up my Nectar Points!!
If it was all about torque, then why are we not all driving diesels!
From someone that had over 550ftlb.... you CAN have too much for the road!
Get down to Tracktive and tell Rich I sent you.... I need to build up my Nectar Points!!
20 August 2010, 07:52 PM
#197
Immy,
Richard Bulmer did a LM400 conversion on a car not long back. The only things the car had were panel filter, decat and fuel pump. TMIC, injectors and 2 port boost solenoid were all stock. It went extremely well.
Keep an eye on my project thread. The LM400 will be going on in a couple of weeks and you will get all the information you need. Once that has taken place I will be trying a new spec from Litchfield Imports which compliment the existing range. Based on their development car I drove this week..... the additional range will rock!
Richard Bulmer did a LM400 conversion on a car not long back. The only things the car had were panel filter, decat and fuel pump. TMIC, injectors and 2 port boost solenoid were all stock. It went extremely well.
Keep an eye on my project thread. The LM400 will be going on in a couple of weeks and you will get all the information you need. Once that has taken place I will be trying a new spec from Litchfield Imports which compliment the existing range. Based on their development car I drove this week..... the additional range will rock!
Immy
20 August 2010, 08:21 PM
#199
Stevie,
Against each discipline as "best fit", I would expect the Spec C to be sharper in both scenarios. When you start to push on you may notice the weight difference, but in general handling they should be very very similar. However, for track use I would prefer a Spec C and for road use a STI.
There are differences in the centre diff torque split as well between with the Hawkeye STI's and Spec C's. In theory this will make the MY06 cars (regardless of whether they are Spec C or STI) understeer more. I have not noticed this with my Hawkeye, but doubt you would on the road anyhow, whilst in auto mode, unless you were really giving it a fistful. Perhaps on track it maybe more evident.
You also have differences with track wide and yaw sensor inputs between a MY03 (STI & Spec C not having these) and a late Blobeye > having them. This makes a difference as well.
You really need to compare year for year.
Lee,
There would be a massive difference between a non DCCD car and one that has DCCD, let alone one with wider track etc. No wonder you see a massive difference. I would suggest you would of seen a similar difference had you gone for a MY06 JDM STI instead.
As regards to the whiteline goodies and suspension. I will not be going down that route until I am confident I have got the most out of the kit that is already on the car. The OE stuff is so capable most of the time, that the only thing I will be doing is to increase camber at the front and rear. Certainly no point in changing general handling stuff for our crap roads.
Against each discipline as "best fit", I would expect the Spec C to be sharper in both scenarios. When you start to push on you may notice the weight difference, but in general handling they should be very very similar. However, for track use I would prefer a Spec C and for road use a STI.
There are differences in the centre diff torque split as well between with the Hawkeye STI's and Spec C's. In theory this will make the MY06 cars (regardless of whether they are Spec C or STI) understeer more. I have not noticed this with my Hawkeye, but doubt you would on the road anyhow, whilst in auto mode, unless you were really giving it a fistful. Perhaps on track it maybe more evident.
You also have differences with track wide and yaw sensor inputs between a MY03 (STI & Spec C not having these) and a late Blobeye > having them. This makes a difference as well.
You really need to compare year for year.
Lee,
There would be a massive difference between a non DCCD car and one that has DCCD, let alone one with wider track etc. No wonder you see a massive difference.
I would suggest you would of seen a similar difference had you gone for a MY06 JDM STI instead.As regards to the whiteline goodies and suspension. I will not be going down that route until I am confident I have got the most out of the kit that is already on the car. The OE stuff is so capable most of the time, that the only thing I will be doing is to increase camber at the front and rear. Certainly no point in changing general handling stuff for our crap roads.
as stated previously I am going to Oulton in a couple of weeks time and I want to start going to Elvington, I reckon on the track it will be too soft? we will see
20 August 2010, 08:24 PM
#200
Scooby Regular
Lee,
The big question is though.... Will a stiffer setup make you any quicker? By the way for elvington on a tight handling circuit, you don't want it stiff.
The big question is though.... Will a stiffer setup make you any quicker? By the way for elvington on a tight handling circuit, you don't want it stiff.
Last edited by Shaun; 20 August 2010 at 08:25 PM.
20 August 2010, 08:27 PM
#201
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sorry to jump on board guys,but is this worth the money?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1855294.htm
very imformative thread.
thanks,stu.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1855294.htm
very imformative thread.
thanks,stu.
20 August 2010, 08:28 PM
#203
sorry fella this is beyond me? not too sure what you mean it use to hit peak torque at 3800rpm and it is now at 4200rpm. however the car was previously running out of umph by 5500rpm so I use to be short shifting a lot. With the LM420 it pulls all the way to 7500+rpm. This actually makes the car easier to drive because it is less fussy about the gear I am in > if you get what I mean. From corner to corner I can hang in a gear now whilst its still pulling, were as I use to find it needed to pull another gear but it wasnt worth going up another gear to then have to come down again which is just unsettling the cars balance.
20 August 2010, 08:30 PM
#204
Nice one thanks for that, i had a mk1 t25 that started about 2800 and was on full at a similar point so was just wondering what the new breed of twinscrolls being bigger when they came in
Seems good results and sounds it to
Glad your happy
Seems good results and sounds it to
Glad your happy
Last edited by stevie1982; 20 August 2010 at 08:35 PM.
20 August 2010, 08:40 PM
#205
The LM400 will max out the standard pink injectors if requested. This will mean that the turbo will not be made full benefit of, but saying that, I have been reliably informed that it will still make you smile if you go down the route of sticking with OE injectors.
Lee,
What do you determine as being "enough" then for road use. Not in power terms, but in what the car achieves. How do you measure it?
Lee,
What do you determine as being "enough" then for road use. Not in power terms, but in what the car achieves. How do you measure it?
I suppose emotions and thrills are hard to measure? we all love a good kick in ar$€ with big power? although 95% of the time my car is powerful enough I do find myself from time to time sat with my foot to the floor wishing for more. On the back roads it is more than enough, but I am certain at Oulton it will feel average?I have never been or seen the Elvington track so I cant say whether it will feel ok for this circuit, from what I am hearing it probably will be.
20 August 2010, 08:47 PM
#206
I plan on attending the Elvington bash on the 03/10/10 if your about you can have a ride then
20 August 2010, 08:52 PM
#207
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sorry to jump on board guys,but is this worth the money?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1855294.htm
very imformative thread.
thanks,stu.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1855294.htm
very imformative thread.
thanks,stu.
Tony
20 August 2010, 09:12 PM
#208
20 August 2010, 10:30 PM
#209
I am only down the road from you fella in Chorley, were going out tomorrow morning around gisburn, settle, hawes, sedburn, devils bridge and back over trough of bowland, join in if you like
I plan on attending the Elvington bash on the 03/10/10 if your about you can have a ride then
I plan on attending the Elvington bash on the 03/10/10 if your about you can have a ride then
Your only round the corner
I have a 5 a side tournament from 1-5 are you available in the evening or Sunday?
Immy
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