dpb

Im slightly surprised privatising more prisons hasnt been suggested

then agian that would be bad old tory polices

far too many people in prison in this country tho , time for as change

pslewis

Yeah ... let them all out!!

Good ole Tories!!

Hysteria1983

Pete you know nothing about me other than I am female, and 27. That's not hard to know really is it??!

Most of the people I know you would possibly class as 'scum'. That has know bearing on me, my preferance or who I am. So I think you need to get a grip.

You think I am naive? Why.... Do tell, I will be intrigued to read what you have tosay.

Hysteria1983

Yes exactly, it doesn't! It is supposed to. It's not just about keeping offenders off the streets. These people should be taught how to behave differently when they have done their time. They have no liberties taken away from them. In fact, sometimes prison is a damn sight better than the lived they lead on 'the outside'.

In cases where young offenders are in and out of prison regularly, they become institutionalized and simply offen again to go back to the comfort of the place they feel safe and welcomed.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

i`d like to see SIMCITY the game have a prison system part and see what happens with 0 tolerance and 60% tolerance and 100% tolerance of crimes,see what happens LOL

pslewis

1. I didn't know you were female

2. I didn't know you were 27

3. I didn't know that most of the people you know are scum

IMO you are naive to think that NOT locking this scum up is better than throwing them in prison ...... there is never any excuse for committing crime, EVER!

I am one of those who would be absolutely in favour of ZERO Tolerance - I mean ZERO!

We see those who are to be trouble when they are very young ... they sap resources at school, they sap resources when they commit crime, they sap resources when they come out of prison, they sap resources when they grow old, they sap resources when they die ..... they are a drag on the rest of society and I don't want to see them walking my streets!!

They contribute ZERO!

Jamie

Considering it was on sky news two days ago and the government have been trying to put this through for ages you are slow on this one lewis

Hysteria1983

Your preaching to the converted there pete. I am sure most of us would agree with a zero tolerance.

However there is a big difference between zero tolerance, abd locking everyone up for every crime. There simply isn't the space or the manpower to do that.

Either you lead a very sheltered life (with regards to who you label scum) or you really are just a prat.

I can tolerate most individuals but I can't stand people who label others as a collective group, just because of a few experiences.

pslewis

I don't understand where you get the 'collective group' I am referring to, and why you object to what I say about them?

After all - the 'Collective Group' I am talking about are criminals ... you know, the ones who make life a misery for everyone else?

If you wish to protect them and think I am wrong by grouping criminal scum in the same bunch then so be it - but, hey-ho, that's me.

Hysteria1983

I don't want it to get personal pete, as I like Reading what you put on here, even if I do sometimes just roll my eyes.

However in this instance we are talking about criminals, or 'criminal scum' as you put it. However I always get the impression that you feel more people are worthy if the label scum, than those who are not.

People who commit crime are not all jobless, and claiming all they can off the government.

On a side note, you thought I was a bloke? Surely not?
Maybe it's because I like breasts?

warrenm2

You really think that less people in prison will help do you? What kind of planet are you on?

warrenm2

Yes it is
Agreed. This is why we have a probation service and a prison service - they do different jobs
This is an arguement for stricter prisons and I fully support you in that
See point above..

Hysteria1983

Am I missing something with this (sic) business?

Hysteria1983

I will repeat....

It's not JUST (it's sole purpous) about keeping offenders off the streets.
It's about reform also, amongst other things of course.

Obviously the most important thing is learning how to complete PGR 3 on xbox 360.

Hysteria1983

I will repeat....

It's not JUST (it's sole purpous) about keeping offenders off the streets.
It's about reform also, amongst other things of course.

Obviously the most important thing is learning how to complete PGR 3 on xbox 360.

warrenm2

Whatever made you think that - you think its some kind of one stop shop for criminals? Education maybe? Bit of social work? Health centre? Day care? Commit a serious enough crime to get locked up and you can have it all?! Roll up, roll up?! FFS. Go read some history

(sic) means "yes I know its wrong and its not me, I'm just quoting the idiot who said it in the first place"

Hysteria1983

I take it you have been inside, so you can educate me?

Thanks for the heads up with the (sic).
However, if I wanted a lesson in spelling and grammar, that's what I would be doing.

GlesgaKiss

Explain at which point in that process anything has been produced? Money has been transferred from the people to the government, and then paid back to people. And resources have been spent in the construction. The economy has lost the resources and the prison produces nothing to replace them.

Felix.

its exactly what the probation service are doing though

pslewis

I'm not getting personal at all ... least I didn't think I was?

You suggested that I was grouping criminal scum together and maybe I shouldn't do that, that's all ........... I do, however, group criminals together (and would like to see more grouped together in prison!)

That's our only difference .. nothing personal

You are correct, we are talking about criminal scum here ..... not low-lifes. I'm sure I haven't got the two mixed up (but, in a lot of cases, they go hand-in-hand)

True, some are very wealthy and scam others of their money. But, let's be honest, most crime comes from those who have not .... stealing from those who have.

I didn't think you were a Bloke, I didn't think you were a woman - I treat everyone alike on here

We can, at least, agree on liking breasts

Peace ..................

pslewis

I didn't think it was that hard to understand?

In simple terms:-

Government takes our money in taxes

The Government employs a Builder and all his men to build a prison

They take that money and spend it, paying taxes, and paying taxes on it when they earn it

So, in essence, the prison is free!

But, people have been employed - have bought cars and TV's - have been happy in their lives

As a side effect we have a building to lock up more people who make the lives of others a misery!

It's a win, win, win, win ..... the Tory way of not locking them up is a lose, lose, lose, lose

Leslie

I think the authorities seem to have lost sight of the fact that prison was originally intended to be a way of taking incorrigible people out of circulation for the protection of the general public and secondly as a punishment for their crimes. Everyone seems to be going on about rehabilitating the criminals and forgetting the protection of those who don't break the law.

Those who take part in criminal activities have a mindset which has no interest in the well being of anyone else and only want to take part in activities which profit themselves regardless of the effect on others. One example is that thieves will often not only steal your possessions but destroy your house or whatever just for the hell of it.

I think that prison should be a place of punishment which is not a pleasant place to be and also the old idea of sending the prisoners off for a day's hard labour would go a long way to persuading criminals that it would be a good idea to avoid the risk of spending part of their lives there. It goes back to the old idea of the carrot and the stick which does work as far as humans are concerned.

It is a waste of time giving dyed in the wool criminals a slap on the wrist hoping that featherbedded treatment will make them change their way of thinking out of gratitude. They need a sharp and unpleasant shock to make them realise that crime is just not worth it.

By the same token, people who commit minor offences, largely because of the vast numbers of footling new laws which have been passed by the previous prats in charge, should not be slung into gaol as a matter of course.

This idea of Ken Clarke's is pure rubbish as far as the protection of the general public is concerned.

Les

David Lock

I appreciate it's a big ask but if you can rehabilitate some youngsters then you will be protecting people. Prison seems to make the situation worse after their release. I am not sure a harsh regime would help although it might make us all feel a bit better. Do criminals really stop and consider the consequences before they commit an offence? dl

hodgy0_2

do countries with harsh prison regimes have lower crime rates?

Leslie

I agree that prison is not the right place for a youngster. We used to have what were known as "Approved Schools" which is where wayward young people were sent. I don't know whether these still exist.

The youngsters were subject to a disciplined existence at these schools and were taught the values that their parents failed to do. The Scout troop that I was in used to go to the local approved school on visits to take part in various sporting activities with the pupils from time to time.

The pupils were always well behaved and easy to get on with, so their teachers must have been pretty competent and created the right kind of atmosphere to help them change their way of thinking. We used to enjoy those visits too and I think it was good for the pupils too.

I think the whole business of dealing with criminals and also wayward young people needs a fresh approach with a lot of lateral thinking. The present mindless PC blanket approach is failing us all including the law abiding public.

Les

Turbo2

No need for you to get yourself all in a lather over this now is there Pete? These car thieves are hardly going to target your sensible new diesel Honda Civic, now are they? Unless Economy Runs have become the new Joy-riding!

pslewis

Once the ******* find out that a Honda Civic Diesel at 340Nm of Torque can see off a Scooby whilst in real world driving ... they'll be coming after mine!

That's why I want them all banged up!!

Turbo2

340 Nm is nothing particularly special in the diesel world. Even the venerable 140bhp VAG unit produces 320 Nm. I've been driving cars with those engines for years and I can safely say that any turbocharged scooby would leave me for dead on the straights or the twisties. The only time I could pass a scooby would be when he stopped for petrol!

GlesgaKiss

So in other words, people pay money in taxes that would otherwise have spent on something. The government then gives it to people to spend. Those people give money back to government, and then recieve that money to spend again. I see your logic.

Win, win, as you say.