I too believe in a society and everyone helping everone else. I also believe that Thatcher could not do what had to be done had she not taken the stance she did. One analogy might be an unavoidable side effect to a life saving operation

The breakdown in social values may well have been started in the 80's. Whether it was Thatcher's fault or not is something that may be debated to death. What is clear, however, is that successive governments have done nothing to address it. And that, to me, is much, much, worse.

I would happily pay more tax if I knew that my contribution was being used for the good of society as a whole. To ultimately improve the quality of life of everyone deserving of it. Be that ligitimate recipients of benefits or someone with £1m in the bank. I wouldn't discriminate on the basis of wealth.

Maybe she was the evil bitch who started the breakdown in social values, or maybe like the climate, it was changing anyway and she was just pragmatic enough to see that.

Thinking the world owes you a living is jsut as bad, if not worse, of looking after yourself at the expense of others. And for sure Labour has a lot to answer for on that score.

Maybe Cameron will come good on his promise if he wins. Maybe he won't. One thing is for sure though, its not going to get any better under Brown and co.

 

And that is soemthing we can agree on.

 

To be honest the only thing we disagree on is Thatcher's contribution, I suspect

 

Strange response Lisa

I wasn't blaming anyone I certainly wasn't defending the current government and I wasn't bitching, I was stating a fact!!

Sorry if you don't like it

 

Yes, you may well be right

 

Just get a room you two

 

Looks like they have just found oil in the falklands

http://www.rockhopperexploration.co....very_FINAL.pdf

Good old maggie she knew what was coming in the new millenium and had the foresight to secure our oil intrests

 

Hey, don't mind me, please feel free to call Brown. Blair or Thatcher what you like - that is your perogative. Personally, I am inclined to defer on such use of epithet.
I am not sure why someone who no longer works in a coal mine should be obliged to spend the rest of their life on the dole - I guess that must be the imperative of the Social welfare system we all work so hard to maintain.
As relates to diplomacy - I guess talk may have induced the Argentines to vacate the Falkland Islands - but I am guessing a whiff of grapeshot was more conducive.
But as they say - Talk is cheap.

 

Please explain.

Do you mean that anyone who wants to be a cop should not be?

Police officers aren't allowed to take a public stand in elections. Police officers are forced to remain neutral during elections (if not they are open to charges of misconduct in a public offfice). Police officers are not allowed to enter political premises once an election has been called -as they could be seen as an influence.

Or do you mean that any police officer who wants to be important in the force (ranked) should not be allowed to be?

You'll find that most police officers who 'do' the job, rather than those who are just in it for promotion and a pension, are well aware that no matter what they do, they will always be shafted and are more at risk, by those who are ranked and after further promotion, than they are from whichever useless bunch of useless ***** make it into power from this election.

 

I am guessing he has read Plato's "The Republic" and alludes to the idea of the ideal leader not being the type of person who yearns for power.
Could be wrong though.
Worth a read none the less IMO.

 

I wasn't aiming the bitching comment specifically at you. The point is many people harp back blaming previous governments for the ills we see today, and the real fact is this one have had 13 years to change things. When it comes to the issue that this thread was discussing, it matters little what has gone before, labour have had 13 years to sort the benefits system out and if anything the issue appears to have become worse if anything, it's not like they've only been in power 5 minutes. Just my opinion.

 

Perfectly good comment Lisa.

Les

 

The issue is the situation won't change.

Example, Cameron's 'free care for the elderly' promise.

In the debate he stood up and said "Why should someone who has been feckless get free care when those who have worked and saved risk losing their house to pay for their care?"

Excellent line and one we can all agree with.

However, his solution is "give us £8000 on reaching retirement and we'll guarantee you 'free' care"

Firstly it costs £8000 so it isn't free. Secondly, the feckless person nextdoor, never done a days work still gets it for free.

Not one single party in this mash of a government will do or can do a thing about that. They will still reward the idle and punish those that earn modest amounts the most.

5t.

 

£8K is about 8 months worth of care in a home I hear.

Les