View Poll Results: Do you believe in a god?
Yes
26
24.76%
No
66
62.86%
Doesn't bother me either way
4
3.81%
I'm undecided.
9
8.57%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll
Who believes there is a god?
Darwin says Theory of Evolution from Apes. So, if we have slowly got better through survival of the fittest, and we were evolving constantly into the modern human you see today, where is the missing link?
How come we have found thousands of fossils of every single stage in our supposed "Evolution" but we havent ever found a fossil proving that we did infact make that jump. So it really is a theory, there is no proof this happened, nothing to make it fact, no hard, cold evidence, just the almost brainwashed scientific society saying no, this is how we must have come to be, and their refusal to even consider alternative theories is almost comical.
How come we have found thousands of fossils of every single stage in our supposed "Evolution" but we havent ever found a fossil proving that we did infact make that jump. So it really is a theory, there is no proof this happened, nothing to make it fact, no hard, cold evidence, just the almost brainwashed scientific society saying no, this is how we must have come to be, and their refusal to even consider alternative theories is almost comical.
You're not quite right with your statements here:
The Theory is that we descended from a common ancestor, and there is a massive dearth of fossil evidence of ANY stage of the evolution process. A lot of what is said is based upon supposition from the limited evidence available.
But, when you consider, somehow, millions of years ago, us humans just popped up, completely different to anything previously around, or around since, it does beg the question, how did we come to be?
If you want to know where we came from, go do some research. I find the subject fascinating; hopefully you'll find reasonable answers to some of your questions.
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From: dsoc.co.nr - Dorset Subaru OC
Now, dont call me crazy, but that's the most sensible answer to me (Flamesuit on!)
I dont believe their is an all-powerful being watching over us, or who created us. I don't believe the Earth was created in seven days, or anything like that. I dont believe in Heaven and Hell, or being punished for your sins when you die. I have never been to Church apart from Weddings, Funerals etc, my family are not religous in any sense.
But, when you consider, somehow, millions of years ago, us humans just popped up, completely different to anything previously around, or around since, it does beg the question, how did we come to be?
Darwin says Theory of Evolution from Apes. So, if we have slowly got better through survival of the fittest, and we were evolving constantly into the modern human you see today, where is the missing link?
How come we have found thousands of fossils of every single stage in our supposed "Evolution" but we havent ever found a fossil proving that we did infact make that jump. So it really is a theory, there is no proof this happened, nothing to make it fact, no hard, cold evidence, just the almost brainwashed scientific society saying no, this is how we must have come to be, and their refusal to even consider alternative theories is almost comical.
There is an ancient tribe in Africa, who still speak Sumerian (fisrt known language?) and they say that we were created by aliens. They say they know what star they came from, have ancient rock carving/drawings of what look amazingly like "Spaceships". Africa is known as the "Cradle of Civilisation" but why? Have they found this missing link there? No. So how can they say this? That all odern humans originated from Africa?
And going further down this line of thought.....
If however, many thousands of years ago, when we were just apes, aliens did land and create modern humans, interacted with us etc, how would they interpret them? As gods? So who's to say the Aliens were just thought of as Gods, and this is where religion has come from?
Years of diluting the story, different countries/faiths/ethnic influences would produce many, many different idea's of who or what God is and how we came to be. Not only that but its completely open, as others have suggested, to be used as a tool. Live your life by these rules, or you will spend eternity in hell. It can/has been used to go to war, infact, its just so open to abuse its incredible, Jihad etc, You could go on and on.
Isnt that the exact thing we see in modern society? Muslims, Christians etc etc?
Whilst I am completely athiest, It does intrigue me massively how we came to be, and the huge, mind boggling differences in intelligence etc to every other living thing before or since we have been here, makes it even more intriuging. I dont have the answers, I dont "believe" we got here by alien intervention, it just seems to make more sense than the official evolution line.
*Tin Foil Hat off* lol!
I dont believe their is an all-powerful being watching over us, or who created us. I don't believe the Earth was created in seven days, or anything like that. I dont believe in Heaven and Hell, or being punished for your sins when you die. I have never been to Church apart from Weddings, Funerals etc, my family are not religous in any sense.
But, when you consider, somehow, millions of years ago, us humans just popped up, completely different to anything previously around, or around since, it does beg the question, how did we come to be?
Darwin says Theory of Evolution from Apes. So, if we have slowly got better through survival of the fittest, and we were evolving constantly into the modern human you see today, where is the missing link?
How come we have found thousands of fossils of every single stage in our supposed "Evolution" but we havent ever found a fossil proving that we did infact make that jump. So it really is a theory, there is no proof this happened, nothing to make it fact, no hard, cold evidence, just the almost brainwashed scientific society saying no, this is how we must have come to be, and their refusal to even consider alternative theories is almost comical.
There is an ancient tribe in Africa, who still speak Sumerian (fisrt known language?) and they say that we were created by aliens. They say they know what star they came from, have ancient rock carving/drawings of what look amazingly like "Spaceships". Africa is known as the "Cradle of Civilisation" but why? Have they found this missing link there? No. So how can they say this? That all odern humans originated from Africa?
And going further down this line of thought.....
If however, many thousands of years ago, when we were just apes, aliens did land and create modern humans, interacted with us etc, how would they interpret them? As gods? So who's to say the Aliens were just thought of as Gods, and this is where religion has come from?
Years of diluting the story, different countries/faiths/ethnic influences would produce many, many different idea's of who or what God is and how we came to be. Not only that but its completely open, as others have suggested, to be used as a tool. Live your life by these rules, or you will spend eternity in hell. It can/has been used to go to war, infact, its just so open to abuse its incredible, Jihad etc, You could go on and on.
Isnt that the exact thing we see in modern society? Muslims, Christians etc etc?
Whilst I am completely athiest, It does intrigue me massively how we came to be, and the huge, mind boggling differences in intelligence etc to every other living thing before or since we have been here, makes it even more intriuging. I dont have the answers, I dont "believe" we got here by alien intervention, it just seems to make more sense than the official evolution line.
*Tin Foil Hat off* lol!
And i'm pretty sure we have found fossils that show an intermediary stage between us and apes.I beleive they are called Neanderthals?
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Evolution is hard to accept for fundamentalists because they find it hard to believe that anything so complex and suited to it's environment could evolve. Of course, this throws up the obvious retort "then neither could a creator".
The leap from nothing to creator is considerbaly more improbable than anything evolution has thrown up, or indeed the start of life itself.
Don't let such problems get in the way of faith though........
Geezer
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You're not quite right with your statements here:
The Theory is that we descended from a common ancestor, and there is a massive dearth of fossil evidence of ANY stage of the evolution process. A lot of what is said is based upon supposition from the limited evidence available.
We didn't just pop up, the limited evidence does show a admittedly vague path from smaller mammels.
If you want to know where we came from, go do some research. I find the subject fascinating; hopefully you'll find reasonable answers to some of your questions.
The Theory is that we descended from a common ancestor, and there is a massive dearth of fossil evidence of ANY stage of the evolution process. A lot of what is said is based upon supposition from the limited evidence available.
We didn't just pop up, the limited evidence does show a admittedly vague path from smaller mammels.
If you want to know where we came from, go do some research. I find the subject fascinating; hopefully you'll find reasonable answers to some of your questions.
I'm no Scientist. I dont do "research" but don't think for one minute I havent done an awful lot of reading on this subject. And as of yet, I am yet to find a definitive answer on "where we came from" If you can point me in the direction to the answer of such an enlightening, elusive question, please show me?
I am not saying there is no line of evolution through apes that do indeed suggest us being the end result.
What I was attempting (perhaps not too articulately, I am at work sat at the front of an office, and i'm speed typing!) to explain, is that not at any point have we ever unearthed a fossil which fills the gap between the last known Neanderthal or ape, to us, Modern Man.
If we had evidence of such a fossil, there wouldnt be whats referred to as the "missing link" if we had every fossil backing up the theory of evolution. We have evolutionary progress, but not showing exactly what we were before modern man.
Why? If we have thousands of other fossils, and we made the jump as thought by Darwin, why arent there thousands of these fossils also? Why havent we ever found just one, just one to prove this theory, that is all it would take, but as of yet we havent, but we are quite happy to base our understanding of where we came from on a scientific model created by a man in the 1800's without any solid evidence to prove what he suggests. I agree, there is evidence that apes have evolved, but to us?
This is the biggest problem I have with this theory.
And by the way, to the smart **** who mentioned us sharing 96% DNA with chimps, so we MUST have been chimps one upon a time....
Did you know, we also share 50% of our DNA with Banannas.
....So by that logic we were once Bananna's too then? Silly bloody response that!
Wasn't meant to be patronising - apologies if it came across as such. What I meant by reaearch was, do I what do and go look for the answers (if they're there) yourself.
The reason why there is so little fossil evidence is that the population was so very very low and the chances of fossilising bones equally so. It's just pot-luck.
As to the sharing DNA - well yep, we did at some point share a common ancestor with a banana (according to the theory of evolution), and trees, grass and every other life form on Earth
The Great apes are our closest DNA match in the entire animal kingdom, hence the supposition that we have common ancestry. The matches between humanity and apes are so strong that there are arguments for reclassifying us AS apes.
That's another argument though - let's stick to arguing whether there was a divine entity steering this process, or if there was a process at all.
The reason why there is so little fossil evidence is that the population was so very very low and the chances of fossilising bones equally so. It's just pot-luck.
As to the sharing DNA - well yep, we did at some point share a common ancestor with a banana (according to the theory of evolution), and trees, grass and every other life form on Earth
The Great apes are our closest DNA match in the entire animal kingdom, hence the supposition that we have common ancestry. The matches between humanity and apes are so strong that there are arguments for reclassifying us AS apes.
That's another argument though - let's stick to arguing whether there was a divine entity steering this process, or if there was a process at all.
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From: North Wales
We share lots of DNA with lots of things, that in itself shows that all life goes back to very basic life billions of years ago, some took the plant route, some took the animal route.
We probably owe more to a common ancestor of us and bananas than God
Also, we didn't make any sort of jump. Evolution is in large organisms is a slow and subtle process. You don't see ape-human and jumps
. Fossilisation is also a difficult and rare process, allied to the fact that humans are comparatively rare, it's not surprising that fossils are rare.
There are fossils of forms leading up to humans, what more do you want? Video?
Geezer
We probably owe more to a common ancestor of us and bananas than God
Also, we didn't make any sort of jump. Evolution is in large organisms is a slow and subtle process. You don't see ape-human and jumps
. Fossilisation is also a difficult and rare process, allied to the fact that humans are comparatively rare, it's not surprising that fossils are rare.There are fossils of forms leading up to humans, what more do you want? Video?
Geezer
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From: dsoc.co.nr - Dorset Subaru OC
And by the way, to the smart **** who mentioned us sharing 96% DNA with chimps, so we MUST have been chimps one upon a time....
Did you know, we also share 50% of our DNA with Banannas.
....So by that logic we were once Bananna's too then? Silly bloody response that!
Did you know, we also share 50% of our DNA with Banannas.
....So by that logic we were once Bananna's too then? Silly bloody response that!
If you had done any research into evolution you would know it has a hierarchical structure, not linear.
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Serious question.
Can I ask the people who have voted in the affirmative (I haven't voted) whether they also believe in the age old enemy of God? i.e 'The devil'? I think it's a much more pertinent and difficult question for religious people to answer. For example, people who appear to be completely rationale and intelligent on the whole can proudly state that they have faith and believe in ther God, yet surely that same faith has to be the reason that they believe in the ultimate super-baddy!
I could ask the old question as to why people believe that their god allows all of the evils in this world such as rape, torture, genocide etc. "God works in mysterious ways" doesn't cut it. The influence of the devil can't quite explain it either as 'God', whichever one, is supposedly all powerful so why not put a stop to it?
The argument that this life is just a dress-rehearsal doesn't wash either, what about the people who've already been raped, tortured etc? Were they just 'props' in this drama?
I'm genuinely interested in whether any of the resident believers would like to put forward a rationale as to how their faith in the existence of 'The Devil' and his works can be explained. Is it just an acknowledgement that some people are simply evil and their God can't do anything about it or chooses not to?
Can I ask the people who have voted in the affirmative (I haven't voted) whether they also believe in the age old enemy of God? i.e 'The devil'? I think it's a much more pertinent and difficult question for religious people to answer. For example, people who appear to be completely rationale and intelligent on the whole can proudly state that they have faith and believe in ther God, yet surely that same faith has to be the reason that they believe in the ultimate super-baddy!
I could ask the old question as to why people believe that their god allows all of the evils in this world such as rape, torture, genocide etc. "God works in mysterious ways" doesn't cut it. The influence of the devil can't quite explain it either as 'God', whichever one, is supposedly all powerful so why not put a stop to it?
The argument that this life is just a dress-rehearsal doesn't wash either, what about the people who've already been raped, tortured etc? Were they just 'props' in this drama?
I'm genuinely interested in whether any of the resident believers would like to put forward a rationale as to how their faith in the existence of 'The Devil' and his works can be explained. Is it just an acknowledgement that some people are simply evil and their God can't do anything about it or chooses not to?
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Actually there is a lot of reputable research showing that evolution tends to happen in "spurts", periods of comparitively low evolution and shorter periods of high rates of evolution, what that means and why, who knows?
At that point in time when the "Big bang theory" occured: Was it by some random chance that everything fell together at that instant for the universe to get created or did something/somebody purposefully make it happen?
Its at this choice where IMO our: experiences, culture, unbringing, personality, help make our decesion.
There isn't enough proof for or against, so I sway between undecided & random.
Its at this choice where IMO our: experiences, culture, unbringing, personality, help make our decesion.
There isn't enough proof for or against, so I sway between undecided & random.
Last edited by rickya; Apr 26, 2010 at 06:48 PM.
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From: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
The human race is limited to thinking and operating in three dimensions only. We can accept that there are other dimensions but our feeble minds cannot even begin to understand what these might mean.
I think it is quite reasonable to speculate that there could be force/forces around the universe that work in other dimensions and can control things we simply could not fathom. Imagine if time didn't exist.
Now this force can be called god or whatever we choose. I believe it is also rather arrogant for us humans to assume that there are only three dimensions in the whole universe.
dl
I think it is quite reasonable to speculate that there could be force/forces around the universe that work in other dimensions and can control things we simply could not fathom. Imagine if time didn't exist.
Now this force can be called god or whatever we choose. I believe it is also rather arrogant for us humans to assume that there are only three dimensions in the whole universe.
dl
The human race is limited to thinking and operating in three dimensions only. We can accept that there are other dimensions but our feeble minds cannot even begin to understand what these might mean.
I think it is quite reasonable to speculate that there could be force/forces around the universe that work in other dimensions and can control things we simply could not fathom. Imagine if time didn't exist.
Now this force can be called god or whatever we choose. I believe it is also rather arrogant for us humans to assume that there are only three dimensions in the whole universe.
dl
I think it is quite reasonable to speculate that there could be force/forces around the universe that work in other dimensions and can control things we simply could not fathom. Imagine if time didn't exist.
Now this force can be called god or whatever we choose. I believe it is also rather arrogant for us humans to assume that there are only three dimensions in the whole universe.
dl
I defy any religious person to explain to me why my daughter has Cystic Fibrosis. Or why my wife's family friend (our bridesmaid when she was a teenager by the way), at the age of 28, has a brain tumour(untreatable) and is asking where her school uniform is and is wetting herself at night.
(Not looking for sympathy by the way, Im not the one with the life limiting disease)
(Not looking for sympathy by the way, Im not the one with the life limiting disease)
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From: Epsom
Sorry, thats a fail. String theory for example permits I think its 11 dimensions. However right now its only a theory BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. If evidence emerges then of course it will be accepted. There is however plenty of evidence for 3 and hence the acceptance. No arrogance involved (just misunderstanding maybe)
Thread Starter
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From: England
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My (young) kids keep getting it (religion) at school - its state sanctioned. I don't consider it damaging, but it is misleading and they swallow it absolutely bl00dy whole.
I just cant have them swallowing the twaddle, supposition and inaccuracy as life fact so I've had to deal with it and explain I don't believe a word. I've also explained that its perfectly OK for other people to believe if the choose, but Daddy doesn't. That will probably do it in as subtle a way as I could - shame it is so confusing for them though. They need to be pragmatic, logical and real to get on in this world. Some spirituality or morality derived from Bible tales is good, but spin and factless misinformation is not.
Mindpsin for the kids...
D
I just cant have them swallowing the twaddle, supposition and inaccuracy as life fact so I've had to deal with it and explain I don't believe a word. I've also explained that its perfectly OK for other people to believe if the choose, but Daddy doesn't. That will probably do it in as subtle a way as I could - shame it is so confusing for them though. They need to be pragmatic, logical and real to get on in this world. Some spirituality or morality derived from Bible tales is good, but spin and factless misinformation is not.
Mindpsin for the kids...
D
My (young) kids keep getting it (religion) at school - its state sanctioned. I don't consider it damaging, but it is misleading and they swallow it absolutely bl00dy whole.
I just cant have them swallowing the twaddle, supposition and inaccuracy as life fact so I've had to deal with it and explain I don't believe a word. I've also explained that its perfectly OK for other people to believe if the choose, but Daddy doesn't. That will probably do it in as subtle a way as I could - shame it is so confusing for them though. They need to be pragmatic, logical and real to get on in this world. Some spirituality or morality derived from Bible tales is good, but spin and factless misinformation is not.
Mindpsin for the kids...
D
I just cant have them swallowing the twaddle, supposition and inaccuracy as life fact so I've had to deal with it and explain I don't believe a word. I've also explained that its perfectly OK for other people to believe if the choose, but Daddy doesn't. That will probably do it in as subtle a way as I could - shame it is so confusing for them though. They need to be pragmatic, logical and real to get on in this world. Some spirituality or morality derived from Bible tales is good, but spin and factless misinformation is not.
Mindpsin for the kids...
D
Kids like stories, and like feeling safe and protected. Thats probably why it appeals to them. Its only later that they start dripfeeding the control aspects. By then, for some its too late.
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From: Wolverhampton!!!
People turn to science when they want the facts, people turn to (their) god when they want hope and reassurance.
Both will never provide someone with complete fulfillment, but I do know that when one had done you over, you turn straight to the other.
When you have suffered and felt someones pain, sometimes you just want to 'think' there is something other than this world where they have suffered. BUT you then question why you/they have been made to suffer in the first place.
Who I am to belittle or judge someone because of what they choose to beleive? I do not know what good/bad things people go through. So I understand that we all have our own very personal reasons for what we believe.
Both will never provide someone with complete fulfillment, but I do know that when one had done you over, you turn straight to the other.
When you have suffered and felt someones pain, sometimes you just want to 'think' there is something other than this world where they have suffered. BUT you then question why you/they have been made to suffer in the first place.
Who I am to belittle or judge someone because of what they choose to beleive? I do not know what good/bad things people go through. So I understand that we all have our own very personal reasons for what we believe.
Last edited by Hysteria1983; Apr 26, 2010 at 10:04 PM.
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D
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unless the 'devil' causes the misery, and the 'god' provides the nurses, rescuers, volunteers and other caring people to try to help as best they can. Or are we just as insignificant as the microscopic creatures that live on our own bodies.
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From: Far Far Away
Religion, belief or whatever is all a personal choice. No one has the right to ridicule anyone who believes.
Trying to change someones mind to suit your own disbelief is just not acceptable.
Live and let live.
I chose to believe at it pleases me to do so. I have no intention of putting anyone down for not believing, that is their choice, as it is mine to think as I wish.
Apart from the ludicrous religious extremists, what harm does it do to anyone, what anyone believes in
My Father was only 47 when he died, I did not blame "God". He or what did not make us perfect. I cried, I still do. I don't use "God" as an excuse. I draw comfort from it.
I too have lost a lot of very special people, but I don't blame God for it. It is life.
I am Christian and proud of it
Oh and don't bother asking me to justify my comments, as I ain't interested. I believe and that is the end of it
(I wasn't going to come into this thread again
)
Trying to change someones mind to suit your own disbelief is just not acceptable.
Live and let live.
I chose to believe at it pleases me to do so. I have no intention of putting anyone down for not believing, that is their choice, as it is mine to think as I wish.
Apart from the ludicrous religious extremists, what harm does it do to anyone, what anyone believes in
My Father was only 47 when he died, I did not blame "God". He or what did not make us perfect. I cried, I still do. I don't use "God" as an excuse. I draw comfort from it.
I too have lost a lot of very special people, but I don't blame God for it. It is life.
I am Christian and proud of it
Oh and don't bother asking me to justify my comments, as I ain't interested. I believe and that is the end of it
(I wasn't going to come into this thread again
)