Voting for XYZ - What 3 key issues are the most pressing/important to you?
14 April 2010, 03:53 PM
#31
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Once again Martin, you just dont seem to read or understand my reply.
The fact that I run this present hopeless bunch down is hardly surprising. I look at the parlous state this country is in and it is all down to them. How can you expect me to support them? Having seen what they are capable of over the last 13 years, it is not surprising that on balance I would prefer to put my trust in a Conservative government. That does not make me a dyed in the wool Tory. Does not give you the excuse to try mocking me-you must be short of an argument! Why do you keep saying you want to see a Conservative government next and then go all peculiar should that be advocated ?
Let me pause and ask if you understand that-or is it too complicated?
Your second comment about undemocratic political unions makes no sense-you will have to explain what you mean. I said that we should pull out of federation and go for an EFTA agreement, ie for trading purposes only.
How about you putting your money where your mouth is and telling us the answers to it all yourself. We might even be in agreement.
Les
The fact that I run this present hopeless bunch down is hardly surprising. I look at the parlous state this country is in and it is all down to them. How can you expect me to support them? Having seen what they are capable of over the last 13 years, it is not surprising that on balance I would prefer to put my trust in a Conservative government. That does not make me a dyed in the wool Tory. Does not give you the excuse to try mocking me-you must be short of an argument! Why do you keep saying you want to see a Conservative government next and then go all peculiar should that be advocated ?
Let me pause and ask if you understand that-or is it too complicated?
Your second comment about undemocratic political unions makes no sense-you will have to explain what you mean. I said that we should pull out of federation and go for an EFTA agreement, ie for trading purposes only.
How about you putting your money where your mouth is and telling us the answers to it all yourself. We might even be in agreement.
Les
The only reason we are having this discussion was because you challenged me because I dared to criticise the Tories record on Health and Education. You couldn’t even bring yourself to remember the appalling state they were in before 1997. This doesn’t mean that the Labour Party can claim too much credit, because they have failed to reform our services, but at least they got the money going in, which has made a big difference.
IMO you are accusing this government of doing terrible things, but the reality is that NONE of the party’s would of done much different, and sure as hell there is so little difference in what they are saying now. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can see one side as terrible and the other as having the answers. So I’m not going ‘peculiar’ at the advocacy of a Tory government, I’m challenging your totally one-sided view as illogical and irrational!
I want a change of government because we desperately need a change, there is far too much cynicism towards this gov. (most of which is justified, some of which is not). We need a clean slate and the Tories are the ‘next cab on the rank’. Do I really expect there to be much of a change overall though…..no, not really!
As for the EU, the point I was making was you are in danger of sounding hypocritical if you say we should get out of one undemocratic political union (THE EU) then say we should hold together another undemocratic political union (THE UK). Why are you happy for us to have an archaic and unrepresentative democratic system here, whilst attacking the EU for exactly the same thing. If you were being consistent ( like me) you’d be screaming for both!
I don’t have the answers Les, and have never pretended to, but then again I don’t just sit there, blame the government for everything either
14 April 2010, 06:01 PM
#32
Labour have had 13 years now and all they seem to have done is run up a big structural deficit. Education is definitely no better and we have an ever growing benefits dependency culture that will bankrupt the country if it is not reined in. The health service may be a bit better, but nowhere near as good as it should be for the increase in costs, and it seems to be a lot harder to get in to see a GP than it was 13 years ago. Our armed forces have gone from being the envy of the world to a laughing stock (through poor equipment and political interference not any lack of professionalism from the troops) - no wonder the Argentines fancy another go at the Falklands.
So having governed for 13 years when the economy and tax revenues were particularly buoyant, Labour now want us to believe that they can make things better when they have to reduce costs massively. If you honestly believe that then I have some land on Mars I'd like to sell you.
So having governed for 13 years when the economy and tax revenues were particularly buoyant, Labour now want us to believe that they can make things better when they have to reduce costs massively. If you honestly believe that then I have some land on Mars I'd like to sell you.
15 April 2010, 10:40 AM
#35
1. Scrap benefits for anyone that has never worked. Govt house with government furniture and a tv that shows educational programs only. Report to food centre for meals. don't like it, get a job. No actual cash or vouchers to be exchanged at all. By all means help those who have worked get back into work and help the aged who have worked for their retirement but don't give people money just because they expect it and only complain about what they've got anyway. For those who do want some money, they'll be given a job 3 days a week street cleanign etc leaving them 2 days to get a job.
2. National service - anyone that doesn't get a job on leaving school to be put inot the army for two years. The majority will be ******* that didn't bother to learn anything and could do with a boot up the backside.
3. Stop all the liberal apologist health and safety pants. Most is only to justify the existence of health and safety people. Bring back commonsense and responsibilities over rights. Spilt a hot drink on yourself? Didn't realise it was going to be hot? Nugget. Do better at life next time. Let the police, fire brigade etc do their jobs and bang up criminals as necessary. Don't make them run the risk of gettign sued because of some ned that has more laws on his side than those enforcign them. On that note, let the fire service turn the hoses on any stone throwign groups they encounter.
loads of other stuff too but limited to 3. No one will do any of it though, far too apologetic to the undeserving.
5t.
2. National service - anyone that doesn't get a job on leaving school to be put inot the army for two years. The majority will be ******* that didn't bother to learn anything and could do with a boot up the backside.
3. Stop all the liberal apologist health and safety pants. Most is only to justify the existence of health and safety people. Bring back commonsense and responsibilities over rights. Spilt a hot drink on yourself? Didn't realise it was going to be hot? Nugget. Do better at life next time. Let the police, fire brigade etc do their jobs and bang up criminals as necessary. Don't make them run the risk of gettign sued because of some ned that has more laws on his side than those enforcign them. On that note, let the fire service turn the hoses on any stone throwign groups they encounter.
loads of other stuff too but limited to 3. No one will do any of it though, far too apologetic to the undeserving.
5t.
The people going on about "strength being in the EU" - what strength? We now have to pander to all their insane crap rules like "defining regular sized fruit and vegetables" - which is why Tesco and the other big 3 refuse produce that is wasted - is that seriously what we're paying these people to decide. We put in a shed load - but how much of that do we see back that truly benefits the average person?
Originally Posted by f1_fan
Law and order must be tackled head on. The do-gooders need to be ignored and a government with spine needs to introduce a series of measures to toughen up on crime all the way from restoring powers to the police, ensuring the legal system makes sensible and harsh sentences where necessary to holding parents/guardians accountable for their kids actions and making society more responsible again. No more stupid legal loopholes or people taken to court for defending their property - some common sense in other words.
The trouble is Clegg and Cameron are blubbing on about cutting the deficit, but what they fail to realise is that it's just one of the many reasons why our country's gone to the dogs under NL. We need to close our country until we've got our own people back to work!!
16 April 2010, 02:04 PM
#36
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Les
The only reason we are having this discussion was because you challenged me because I dared to criticise the Tories record on Health and Education. You couldn’t even bring yourself to remember the appalling state they were in before 1997. This doesn’t mean that the Labour Party can claim too much credit, because they have failed to reform our services, but at least they got the money going in, which has made a big difference.
IMO you are accusing this government of doing terrible things, but the reality is that NONE of the party’s would of done much different, and sure as hell there is so little difference in what they are saying now. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can see one side as terrible and the other as having the answers. So I’m not going ‘peculiar’ at the advocacy of a Tory government, I’m challenging your totally one-sided view as illogical and irrational!
I want a change of government because we desperately need a change, there is far too much cynicism towards this gov. (most of which is justified, some of which is not). We need a clean slate and the Tories are the ‘next cab on the rank’. Do I really expect there to be much of a change overall though…..no, not really!
As for the EU, the point I was making was you are in danger of sounding hypocritical if you say we should get out of one undemocratic political union (THE EU) then say we should hold together another undemocratic political union (THE UK). Why are you happy for us to have an archaic and unrepresentative democratic system here, whilst attacking the EU for exactly the same thing. If you were being consistent ( like me) you’d be screaming for both!
I don’t have the answers Les, and have never pretended to, but then again I don’t just sit there, blame the government for everything either
The only reason we are having this discussion was because you challenged me because I dared to criticise the Tories record on Health and Education. You couldn’t even bring yourself to remember the appalling state they were in before 1997. This doesn’t mean that the Labour Party can claim too much credit, because they have failed to reform our services, but at least they got the money going in, which has made a big difference.
IMO you are accusing this government of doing terrible things, but the reality is that NONE of the party’s would of done much different, and sure as hell there is so little difference in what they are saying now. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can see one side as terrible and the other as having the answers. So I’m not going ‘peculiar’ at the advocacy of a Tory government, I’m challenging your totally one-sided view as illogical and irrational!
I want a change of government because we desperately need a change, there is far too much cynicism towards this gov. (most of which is justified, some of which is not). We need a clean slate and the Tories are the ‘next cab on the rank’. Do I really expect there to be much of a change overall though…..no, not really!
As for the EU, the point I was making was you are in danger of sounding hypocritical if you say we should get out of one undemocratic political union (THE EU) then say we should hold together another undemocratic political union (THE UK). Why are you happy for us to have an archaic and unrepresentative democratic system here, whilst attacking the EU for exactly the same thing. If you were being consistent ( like me) you’d be screaming for both!
I don’t have the answers Les, and have never pretended to, but then again I don’t just sit there, blame the government for everything either
About the state of the NHS with the Conservatives, try reading what I said again.
I certainly don't think that the Conservatives would have thrown the very strong economy that they left in 1997 away in the way that NL has done going on to overborrow continuously so that they could continue to waste our taxes as they did. They followed the course that all Labour governments have aways done. They just can't wait to throw it all away. They used the borrowed money to make the economy look good when in fact it was disappearing down the tubes. Flash's much vaunted saving of the world has been achieved by continuing to spend our grandchildren's cash. How much easier it would have been if they have kept our own economy as strong as it was originally.
I now understand waht you meant about non democratic rule. Yes the federation will mean that the people will no longer have any influence on their future. That is the loss of democracy.
At least in this country our vote is still powerful in that we can still vote the rubbish out. Even if they do ignore what the people want when they are in power.
When federated we would no longer be able to vote in order to control the unelected bunch who would be in charge. They would be able to do just as they like and we could do nothing any more to change that! I think that eventually they would say it is no longer necessary to bother us to vote anyway!
You have to understand Martin that having seen the way things have gone over the last 13 years, on balance I think that we have a better chance of a strong economy and keeping our democracy with a Conservative government even if Cameron has been so stupid to drop his promise of a referendum on the Lisbon stitch up.
Les
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