I love how this thread is decending into an M5 bashing....scooby's are great extravaganza. I don't own an M5 and I don't own a scooby any more either. I simply hate when I read things that are clearly ficticious.

The debate isn't - and never has been - whether a modified classic could keep up or beat an M5. The fastest Impreza I've been in was SG72's 405bhp STI 5 Type-R which was later bought by Andy F and transformed into the beast that it is today. The day I was in it we tackled an e46 M3 and left it for dead coming up a sliproad onto the A1. I fully believe that car would have walked away from an e60 M5 as well - the merits of modified scooby's are not in debate.

The fact of the matter is this....1000whp claimed that:

a) a 280bhp Legacy pulled ahead and remained ahead of an M6 until after 4th gear was expended.
b) that the driver of the M6 was clearly trying and thus would have been in 'M' mode with all 507bhp at his disposal.

That is bull-fvcking-****.

 

Agreed

 

Phew

 

We're all entitled to give our opinions informed and otherwise, you clearly aren't shy in telling us what you think. 1000rwhp is probably on a wind up and I'm struggling to understand why you're still arguing with him. As someone's signature here reads 'when arguing with a fool make sure he's not doing the same'.

 

If you don't think the M5 feels fast, you must have access to some very precious cars...

 

Yes he does

Banny

 

Go on then do tell..

 

I don't recall the thread having anything to do with the Legacy 'conundrum' Maybe it was up an icy hill - who knows.

It was a question about whether someone should buy an M5 and therefore opens up M5s for a good pretend bashing! (in the knowledge that it's a stonking car really that most of us can't afford)

 

The M5 has flaws like any other car but I'm a bit suprised by Einstein's comments.

1) I don't thinks its cramped for its class. The E class and A6 may have a little more leg room in the back but they then have plenty of their own flaws to more than make up for that.

2) Whether it feels fast or not is subjective, the fact of the matter is it IS fast. Look at the 0-60 and 0-100 times and you'll see that.

3) There is no other car (except the Masser which I can't comment on as haven't driven) that can do as many things as well as the M5. Imho it is still the ultimate drivers super saloon. The Merc and Audi maybe faster, but they don't handle as well or give as much feedback as the M5.

 

The M5 has flaws like any other car but I'm a bit suprised by Einstein's comments.

1) I don't thinks its cramped for its class. The E class and A6 may have a little more leg room in the back but they then have plenty of their own flaws to more than make up for that.

2) Whether it feels fast or not is subjective, the fact of the matter is it IS fast. Look at the 0-60 and 0-100 times and you'll see that.

3) There is no other car (except the Masser which I can't comment on as haven't driven) that can do as many things as well as the M5. Imho it is still the ultimate drivers super saloon. The Merc and Audi maybe faster, but they don't handle as well or give as much feedback as the M5.

 

It doesn't feel 500bhp fast IYSWIM. You really need to nail the throttle to get it going and then the acceleration isn't quite as intense as I expected. Perhaps it's the linear response of the delivery. A 997 Turbo packs a bigger punch, CL63 AMG has a more muscular build up and even a 500SL AMG felt quicker. This is on the road not track I hasten to add and I know performance is a very subjective thing.

 

Would say the M5 is refined, but it blows me away every time I take it for a blast..

 

Petrol BMWs generally feel slower than their performance suggests - it is as their output is well controlled by the ECU to be very linear.

 

Einstein, I do take your point. The V10 engine is loved by many due to its high revving F1 type performance, it will pull like a train to the 8.5k rpm redline with no let up at all. From about 4k- redline it is a monster. Around town though when its difficult to drive like that it can feel as though you aren't driving something special.
Its a trade off I suppose, not many cars have an engine that has perfect delivery. I'm not suprised you felt the 997 turbo was faster, it is faster! I drove my mates one and its point and squirt ability is fantastic, problem is it completely lacks character, the sound is just so disappointing for a motoring icon.

I actually prefer the nature of super and turbo charged AMG engines, sooo much low down pull. Problem is AMG has never really made a car that handles properly. As you know I'm looking at changing to CL63 AMG, but that's because I'm turning into an old fart who now prefers comfort to outright handling ability.

I hope you can tell that I'm not one of those people who will insist that my car is the best just because I own it. I'm very frank about its flaws (inc fuel consumption, touring range etc) but all in all it is not a flawed car. Whatever I change over to, my wife, kids and I will miss this car and will not regret the three years of ownership

 

I expect a lot in the thrust department, but that V10 from 6000 to 8000 RPM is special, and the combination of weight, ride quality and cornering is fantastic.

The 997 Turbo's midrange is special too, it feels like a giant hoover sucking up the road. It is fast, but it feels faster than it really is like most turbocharged cars do. The M5 feels slower than it is, but keep it in the power band and it keeps you awake/on your toes.

 

Forced induction does have a very subjective quality. I think Trout has hit the nail on the head re BM's power delivery, very linear and thus feeling slower than it is. I don't think anyone can criticise the M5 dynamically, it is a fantastic engineering achievement but and it's a big but, I prefer the performance to be a little more organic. More analogue than digital. The 997 I drove did have a stage one conversion and boy was it quick, it does feel literally as it's swallowing the road in huge chunks! The AMG models might not be up there at full pelt with the M5 but I think the trade off is worth it. Better ride, a bit more low down oomph with all that torque. Infact with the AMGs you're more likely to cruise at moderate speeds without wanting to go a zillion miles per hour everywhere.

 

Coming much much further down the foodchain... my 335d took a little while to get used to - it gathers speed so effortlessly, with no "thump" or flat spot that you often have to check the speedo to realise you are suddenly doing well over a tonne and it just keeps on pulling. I guess it's just the torque? My slower Golf R32 made it very clear it was trying hard and sometimes felt quicker - it wasn't. It was just a more manic. Same with high powered Scoobs.

I should think the "not feeling all that fast" thing in the M5 is similar - just effortless (and much better) performance with no drama. It's majors on bhp not torque but still in a very controlled and smooth manner.

Drive something like a Civic Type R or an Elise 111R and you feel like you are about to blow it up every time you go above 60.

 

Some wise and true comments, see we can have a sensible discussion on scoobynet!

It will be interesting to see how the CL63 feels compared to the M5, it has about the same BHP but about 20% more torque and about 300 extra kilos. It has a claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds but I haven't managed to find independent verification of this on the net.

 

Some wise and true comments, see we can have a sensible discussion on scoobynet!

It will be interesting to see how the CL63 feels compared to the M5, it has about the same BHP but about 20% more torque and about 300 extra kilos. It has a claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds but I haven't managed to find independent verification of this on the net.

 

I love pretty much all AMG cars - they sound amazing, all have plenty of torque and all look special.

Just post up some pics when you get one! The one above looks stunning.

 

On topic.

 

Lordy, that is gorgeous! That would be the colour and wheels I'd go for if I took the plunge.

 

Einstein, did youu look in the boot of the car? Is it a convential shape or is there some kind of 'black box' in the middle? I've only managed to find one pic of the boot and it seems to show something box shaped in the middle (?transmission tunnel?)

Also would you know whether the rear seats can fold down?

Cheers

 

All that's missing is a posh country house in the background...

 

Einstein is that you in the pic behind the white classic ? That CL63 really is something else !!!!!

 

That there be Banny Sti in that pic. The boot doesn't have anything in the middle, it's just the same as a convential boot. As far as I can remember the seats don't fold down. It is a great car, it has road presence without being too vulgar, it's fairly practical insofar as a coupe can be. Best of all it's just as happy to potter about as it is to sit at 155 miles an hour. A good all round car and something I would recommend.

 

Banny Wifebeater.

 

 

Many called those vests "wifebeaters" - I know I do (and have a few)!

Stella Artw4tyer (full strength version) is also called wifebeater.

 

you learn somethin new everyday cheers mattee