Saxo VTS
02 April 2002, 08:42 AM
#151
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Posted by sazo boy:
"Tell that to Mike at work everytime I stay two car lengths behind his 172 all the way home. The 172 is quicker but by the smallest of amounts....Deal with it or buy a faster car!!"
Saxo boy,
Smooth looking car BTW!
I hate to disagree with you but from my experience, which consists of a lot of races, a well run in Clio Sport will leave a saxo fairly easily, and by more that a few car lengths after 60mph.
Having raced a few Clio's and WRX's the Clio will match the WRX and Audi S3 from 40 - 100mph, at which point it always seems to slow down a fair amount!
Remember that the Clio is hardly any heavier but 50bhp more powerful plus a lot more torque!
Still, I think your car looks a lot better!
"Tell that to Mike at work everytime I stay two car lengths behind his 172 all the way home. The 172 is quicker but by the smallest of amounts....Deal with it or buy a faster car!!"
Saxo boy,
Smooth looking car BTW!
I hate to disagree with you but from my experience, which consists of a lot of races, a well run in Clio Sport will leave a saxo fairly easily, and by more that a few car lengths after 60mph.
Having raced a few Clio's and WRX's the Clio will match the WRX and Audi S3 from 40 - 100mph, at which point it always seems to slow down a fair amount!
Remember that the Clio is hardly any heavier but 50bhp more powerful plus a lot more torque!
Still, I think your car looks a lot better!
02 April 2002, 09:49 PM
#153
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Does any 1 remember Top Gear where they put a VTS v's 172 on the track. I think VBH drove the Clio and Tiff in the Saxo. The Saxo stayed with the Clio, only dropping a couple of car lengths on a long straight?
02 April 2002, 11:36 PM
#155
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Saxovts raises a good point about the power difference between the two generations of VTS. Don’t forget that my MKII VTS has closer to 130bhp, is geared for sprinting and it only tips the scales at 935kg with a relatively slippy shape. I’ve never once said it stands a chance against the likes of an Impreza but it does in my experience keep up with the 172 no problem at all. Maybe I’ve just got a good one so to speak but mines doesn’t feel any faster then the other 4 VTS’ I’ve driven in my time. I like the marmite analogy – certainly seems to be the case!
As for the 306 GTI-6, I don’t deny that is a wonderful car but in a straight line every car magazine tester has said that the 106 GTI will keep up, hence also, the VTS. I don’t for a moment think that my car is the fastest thing on the road. You Clio, GTI, Turbo’d this and Supercharged that drivers all get very humpfy about all this and make sweeping claims of blowing a VTS into oblivion! Unless it’s a Scooby or better it ain’t going to happen and you hot hatch lot will just have to accept it. I think the 172 drivers are the worst for it cause you paid about £5k more for your car than a VTS and in terms of there design they are years apart. So obviously you want something for your £5k and expect it to destroy a VTS. You forget just one vital thing though, your car has part leather/alcantara sport seats, multi-disk CD system with god knows how many speakers, climate control, a trip computer, electric everything and so on. The saxo has he and haw comparatively speaking. The VTS and 106 GTI IMHO were the last of the hot hatches that were designed to the MK1 Golf GTI ethos where comforts are put aside for lightness and power. Take the new Type R for example, it’s almost got an MPV like shape to give it huge interior space – why?? I’d love to see what a Clio 172 could do if they took out all the toys and replaced the nice (heavier) tactile plastics with ‘poke your finger through it’ thin plastics!!
So the moral of the story is: next time your struggling to lose a VTS in your 172 (which, trust me – you will) just crank up the air conditioning, play around with your computer and stretch your legs in that spacious pedal box and feel sorry for the VTS driver who needs the window down to keep cool, uses his head to figure out his mpg and had deformed feet for life
I agree with Richie1 in that fast twisty driving has a lot to do with your nutts. I once raced a clapped out poorly modified Jetta through the twisties and he kept up no problem even though I could corner a lot faster and destroy him in the straights. It wasn’t cause I felt he was a better driver he just refused to lose and pushed his car beyond the limits sliding from one edge of the road to the other on every corner. I concluded after about a minute of this that if I pushed harder I’d begin to leave him and in his frustration he’d push harder still and end up killing people so I pulled over and stopped. There’s having fun and there’s being an idiot!!!
Mark J, I’d sign that petition and would happily supply my car for a rematch, although I’d like the 172 and Type R in there for good measure! I like your ‘from’ bit in your login details – genius!
Haven't seen that Top Gear race but I wished I had. I have huge respect for Tiff but don't knock Butler-Henderson she can really go.....and she's quite quick behind the wheel of a car too
As for the 306 GTI-6, I don’t deny that is a wonderful car but in a straight line every car magazine tester has said that the 106 GTI will keep up, hence also, the VTS. I don’t for a moment think that my car is the fastest thing on the road. You Clio, GTI, Turbo’d this and Supercharged that drivers all get very humpfy about all this and make sweeping claims of blowing a VTS into oblivion! Unless it’s a Scooby or better it ain’t going to happen and you hot hatch lot will just have to accept it. I think the 172 drivers are the worst for it cause you paid about £5k more for your car than a VTS and in terms of there design they are years apart. So obviously you want something for your £5k and expect it to destroy a VTS. You forget just one vital thing though, your car has part leather/alcantara sport seats, multi-disk CD system with god knows how many speakers, climate control, a trip computer, electric everything and so on. The saxo has he and haw comparatively speaking. The VTS and 106 GTI IMHO were the last of the hot hatches that were designed to the MK1 Golf GTI ethos where comforts are put aside for lightness and power. Take the new Type R for example, it’s almost got an MPV like shape to give it huge interior space – why?? I’d love to see what a Clio 172 could do if they took out all the toys and replaced the nice (heavier) tactile plastics with ‘poke your finger through it’ thin plastics!!
So the moral of the story is: next time your struggling to lose a VTS in your 172 (which, trust me – you will) just crank up the air conditioning, play around with your computer and stretch your legs in that spacious pedal box and feel sorry for the VTS driver who needs the window down to keep cool, uses his head to figure out his mpg and had deformed feet for life
I agree with Richie1 in that fast twisty driving has a lot to do with your nutts. I once raced a clapped out poorly modified Jetta through the twisties and he kept up no problem even though I could corner a lot faster and destroy him in the straights. It wasn’t cause I felt he was a better driver he just refused to lose and pushed his car beyond the limits sliding from one edge of the road to the other on every corner. I concluded after about a minute of this that if I pushed harder I’d begin to leave him and in his frustration he’d push harder still and end up killing people so I pulled over and stopped. There’s having fun and there’s being an idiot!!!
Mark J, I’d sign that petition and would happily supply my car for a rematch, although I’d like the 172 and Type R in there for good measure! I like your ‘from’ bit in your login details – genius!
Haven't seen that Top Gear race but I wished I had. I have huge respect for Tiff but don't knock Butler-Henderson she can really go.....and she's quite quick behind the wheel of a car too
02 April 2002, 11:45 PM
#157
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If you've got an unmodified 172 and give me details on how to get there/what it costs, etc I'll happily go to Crail. I'm sure it would be a good laugh. At the end of the day that's what it's all about anyway, buying a car that makes you smile.
02 April 2002, 11:53 PM
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That's a bit of a bugger!
Erm....it's not the easiest place to get to, I think its something like 7 quid to get in, then 30 for unlimited runs throughout the day!
Erm....it's not the easiest place to get to, I think its something like 7 quid to get in, then 30 for unlimited runs throughout the day!
02 April 2002, 11:56 PM
#161
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I'm sure this tread will still be going strong at the end of the week so post something about it then and I'm sure we'll get something arranged. Surely people don't drag their cars all day long though, that can't be good for engines, gearboxs, clutches, etc.
Anyway, I'm going to hit the hay - work in the morning. No hard feelings Clio dude, happy motoring.
Anyway, I'm going to hit the hay - work in the morning. No hard feelings Clio dude, happy motoring.
03 April 2002, 10:26 AM
#163
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Hey, I'd drive the GTi6 to Scotland just to prove you wrong!
Anyway, I know my hot hatches as I've got 2x205Gti rally cars, and the 306 (family car).
There's no ifs, buts or maybes - the Saxo will get pasted, and I mean pasted by the 306. Considering you've never been alongside one, I find it difficult to accept your "the 106 Gti will etc".
I have many a time - and the Saxo loses every time.
The 306 only carries a kerb weight of 1215 kilos, so it's not that heavy and more than makes up for it with the six speed box and 40 bhp difference over the Saxo.
When I'm up in Scotland next, you can then have a ride in a quick car. Either my 330 brake cos, or my old man's Pulsar GtiR. Then you'll see quick.
Anyway, I know my hot hatches as I've got 2x205Gti rally cars, and the 306 (family car).
There's no ifs, buts or maybes - the Saxo will get pasted, and I mean pasted by the 306. Considering you've never been alongside one, I find it difficult to accept your "the 106 Gti will etc".
I have many a time - and the Saxo loses every time.
The 306 only carries a kerb weight of 1215 kilos, so it's not that heavy and more than makes up for it with the six speed box and 40 bhp difference over the Saxo.
When I'm up in Scotland next, you can then have a ride in a quick car. Either my 330 brake cos, or my old man's Pulsar GtiR. Then you'll see quick.
03 April 2002, 11:36 AM
#164
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A rematch, It cant be a rematch because I didnt race you !
Anyway, I thought I said it was very close up to 60 and then the Saxo dropped back a bit, I was impressed how well it kept up consdering its just over half the power of the T5. I like them and would consider one but I think the T5 will be up for replacement rather than my old Pug 309 I use for work, that Will be replaced when my dad gets his new motor and donates me his Golf GTI which is mint and a family heirloom cos I Won it in 1988 (Daily Mirror).
I suspect that much modification will be going the way of the Golf, Currently it only has a Magnex system, suspect a 2.0 16v will find its way in there.
If you will send the £200 for Petrol I will happily drive up to Scotland !
Anyway, I thought I said it was very close up to 60 and then the Saxo dropped back a bit, I was impressed how well it kept up consdering its just over half the power of the T5. I like them and would consider one but I think the T5 will be up for replacement rather than my old Pug 309 I use for work, that Will be replaced when my dad gets his new motor and donates me his Golf GTI which is mint and a family heirloom cos I Won it in 1988 (Daily Mirror).
I suspect that much modification will be going the way of the Golf, Currently it only has a Magnex system, suspect a 2.0 16v will find its way in there.
If you will send the £200 for Petrol I will happily drive up to Scotland !
03 April 2002, 01:16 PM
#166
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you've got to hand it to Saxoboy this is some thread. There must be someone in Scotland with a Clio 172 who can go to Crail! I could go but i havent a 172 so it would be a tad pointless!
03 April 2002, 01:20 PM
#167
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Mark I didn’t mean a rematch between the Volvo and the Saxo (your right we didn’t race!!!), I meant a rematch for the Clarkson video, the VTS, Leon, MK1 and 5 Golfs, etc.
As for Richard I’d happily pit the VTS against the 306 GTI – it would remain glued to your back bumper! The guy from work who has the 172 had a 306 GTI before that – which he loved to bits – and he says his clio is slightly faster than the 306 and admits that the clio is only slightly faster than the VTS. I’d never say this of the clio V’s VTS cause the 172 IS faster….but I think there is a chance that the VTS would win a quarter mile dash against a 306 GTI (were talking inches of difference here though!). If the Saxo did lose it would be by the smallest of margins! By the way if you do head up here to prove your point bring the cossie too, I’d fancy a spin (not literally please) in something like that!
Incidentally the GTI6 has:
167bhp
1215kg
= 137.5bhp per ton
VTS MKII (MK1 was 120)
130bhp
935kg
= 139bhp per ton
So where is the big difference? When straight line sprinting a change at the red line will put the VTS at peak torque for the next gear so having the 6 gears won’t give much extra advantage, just gives you one extra change for driver error to come into play. The VTS and GTI6 will go from 0-100mph and be a foot or so apart if that – if you want to drive for 7 hours to prove a couple of feet either way be my guest!
Also the quarter mile rivals site (www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals.htm) shows the following results for the ¼ mile dash:
VTS 16.1
Clio Williams 16.1
206 GTI 16.2
306 Rallye 16.3
205 1.9 GTI 16.4
VW Lupo GTI 16.4
306 GTI 16.4
106 GTI 16.5
0.4 of a second is not much on the road!! What I’m trying to say is the ‘hot-hatches’ (172, 106, 205, 206, 306 GTI’s, VTS, etc) are all pretty much about the same and by 100mph you’d be lucky if there was more than two car lengths between 1st and last (172 and Type R being 1st) If you want to leave a hot-hatch for dead or ‘paste’ one as you put it, you need to get something with a lot more power – scoobies, cossies, etc.
That's a fair point, this thread is anything but boreing. I'm glad to see it's all relatively good humoured and constructive.
As for Richard I’d happily pit the VTS against the 306 GTI – it would remain glued to your back bumper! The guy from work who has the 172 had a 306 GTI before that – which he loved to bits – and he says his clio is slightly faster than the 306 and admits that the clio is only slightly faster than the VTS. I’d never say this of the clio V’s VTS cause the 172 IS faster….but I think there is a chance that the VTS would win a quarter mile dash against a 306 GTI (were talking inches of difference here though!). If the Saxo did lose it would be by the smallest of margins! By the way if you do head up here to prove your point bring the cossie too, I’d fancy a spin (not literally please) in something like that!
Incidentally the GTI6 has:
167bhp
1215kg
= 137.5bhp per ton
VTS MKII (MK1 was 120)
130bhp
935kg
= 139bhp per ton
So where is the big difference? When straight line sprinting a change at the red line will put the VTS at peak torque for the next gear so having the 6 gears won’t give much extra advantage, just gives you one extra change for driver error to come into play. The VTS and GTI6 will go from 0-100mph and be a foot or so apart if that – if you want to drive for 7 hours to prove a couple of feet either way be my guest!
Also the quarter mile rivals site (www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals.htm) shows the following results for the ¼ mile dash:
VTS 16.1
Clio Williams 16.1
206 GTI 16.2
306 Rallye 16.3
205 1.9 GTI 16.4
VW Lupo GTI 16.4
306 GTI 16.4
106 GTI 16.5
0.4 of a second is not much on the road!! What I’m trying to say is the ‘hot-hatches’ (172, 106, 205, 206, 306 GTI’s, VTS, etc) are all pretty much about the same and by 100mph you’d be lucky if there was more than two car lengths between 1st and last (172 and Type R being 1st) If you want to leave a hot-hatch for dead or ‘paste’ one as you put it, you need to get something with a lot more power – scoobies, cossies, etc.
That's a fair point, this thread is anything but boreing. I'm glad to see it's all relatively good humoured and constructive.
03 April 2002, 06:23 PM
#169
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Ah, but there would be no driver error !
I think we may be coming up to Scotland for a weekend in June. I'll let ya know.
And FYI, my brother posted a 15.4 quarter at Santa Pod in the pug - so it's all about the driver
!I think we may be coming up to Scotland for a weekend in June. I'll let ya know.
And FYI, my brother posted a 15.4 quarter at Santa Pod in the pug - so it's all about the driver
04 April 2002, 04:48 PM
#170
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Oh come on now! We've all fluffed the odd gear change or two! I once got stuffed by a V6 Scorpio off the lights cause I took about a second to get from 1st to 2nd, very embarrassing!! I've been looking out for one ever since but alas they are rare!
but alas they are rare!
07 April 2002, 04:28 PM
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Couldn't be botherd to read all of this thread but have to chip in with a bit of support for the 106 and common sense. On the tiny country lanes around my house I've driven a huge variety of cars including M-tech beamers saxos 106's nova GSi's and more and in my experience the 106 was the quickest simply because personally it gave me the confidence to drive near to its limits.
I know in theory the M3 should whup a 106 GTI but the width of the car on country lanes the fear of my dad taking me off his insuracne policy if I stacked his car and other factors just diddn't give me confidence to thrash the car around. The saxo was good but seemed to bounce everywhere.
So there you have it a 106 GTi is better than an M3 and a landrover discovery is best of all because its the only car that convinces oncoming idiotic BMW and mercedes drivers to make an effort to keep to their own side of the road.
I know in theory the M3 should whup a 106 GTI but the width of the car on country lanes the fear of my dad taking me off his insuracne policy if I stacked his car and other factors just diddn't give me confidence to thrash the car around. The saxo was good but seemed to bounce everywhere.
So there you have it a 106 GTi is better than an M3 and a landrover discovery is best of all because its the only car that convinces oncoming idiotic BMW and mercedes drivers to make an effort to keep to their own side of the road.
07 April 2002, 04:47 PM
#172
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OK OK OK.......I'll admit I was wrong!
The VTS and the 172 are very evenly matched down the 1/4 mile drag strip! What can I say Saxo Boy, you beat me fair and square!
The best of the day was a 15.2, what about yerself?
The VTS and the 172 are very evenly matched down the 1/4 mile drag strip! What can I say Saxo Boy, you beat me fair and square!
The best of the day was a 15.2, what about yerself?
07 April 2002, 06:49 PM
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I respect that your willing to admit that, cheers. I was very chuffed with the way the VTS performed today and beating the 172 was brilliant. That said frett not, as the 172 is defo faster as my best time was 15.3 - what can I say, 0.1 of a second!! The red (standard I think) CRX really suprised me as it put a good car length on the Saxo 
Also got a go against a 306 GTI-6 (standard) and it was even all the way but he put half a car on me at the start - too much spin 
and that is the way we crossed the line. The little red nova was a fly machine, it was scooby quick!!! I was also chuffed with the performace I put in against the lovely Integra, I got beat obviously but not by as much as I expected. Final run was against the Caterham type thing - oh my god!!!!
I'd have to say as a Crial first timer I thoroughly enjoyed myself and it's nice to what all the various cars can do. Some tasty birds too
Also got a go against a 306 GTI-6 (standard) and it was even all the way but he put half a car on me at the start - too much spin and that is the way we crossed the line. The little red nova was a fly machine, it was scooby quick!!! I was also chuffed with the performace I put in against the lovely Integra, I got beat obviously but not by as much as I expected. Final run was against the Caterham type thing - oh my god!!!!I'd have to say as a Crial first timer I thoroughly enjoyed myself and it's nice to what all the various cars can do. Some tasty birds too
07 April 2002, 07:14 PM
#176
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RichardPon I just reviewed this thread and read one of your previous posts which said the 306 GTI would paste a VTS....errrr wrong!!
bluenose what fuel do you use BTW cause Mike at work fills his 172 with SUL as recommened and he recons it makes a difference.
Another surprise was the VTR, the dealer told me (and VTR owners since) that there is 'very little' difference between the R and S. Crap, the VTS put a huge distance on the modified VTR, god knows what it would do to a standard one.
Oh good, my hearings just came back - I stood a little to close to the 'beast' when he throttled it!!
bluenose what fuel do you use BTW cause Mike at work fills his 172 with SUL as recommened and he recons it makes a difference.
Another surprise was the VTR, the dealer told me (and VTR owners since) that there is 'very little' difference between the R and S. Crap, the VTS put a huge distance on the modified VTR, god knows what it would do to a standard one.
Oh good, my hearings just came back - I stood a little to close to the 'beast' when he throttled it!!
07 April 2002, 07:38 PM
#178
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Saxo Boy,
It was my first time running the car as well, I must admit it was great fun! Althought I didn't win a race.X
I run my car on SUL BTW!
You're doing bloody well getting 15.3 out of a Saxo VTS aren't you?
I think I'm going to dump any passengers, and the full size spare alloy next time tho'!
It was my first time running the car as well, I must admit it was great fun! Althought I didn't win a race.X
I run my car on SUL BTW!
You're doing bloody well getting 15.3 out of a Saxo VTS aren't you?
I think I'm going to dump any passengers, and the full size spare alloy next time tho'!