Saxo VTS
26 March 2002, 07:44 PM
#61
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Hmmmm, the Saxo is an ok car but I would never ever buy another one. I had to many problems with mine. They are a good laugh to drive, especially on a track but I think that they are a bit tinny inside, In my opinion the 106 GTi got the far better interior. There is no real comparison to the Impreza (well at least my Sti anyways) I can **** all over my mates VTS without even really trying. There is only 2 VTS's that I know of that would come close (in a straight drag) and they are far away in Scotland 
26 March 2002, 08:27 PM
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Don't underestimate a 106 GTi! 
Volvo 850R:
Power - 250bhp
0-60 - 7.8secs
1/4 Mile - 16.3secs
Peugeot 106 GTi:
Power - 120bhp
0-60 - 7.4secs
1/4 Mile - 16.5secs
So go on... where's the massive difference?!
The 106 is slightly quicker to 60, but the Volvo's power comes into play as the speed rises, even then it is still bl00dy close. Plus that is for a standard 106, which mine is not!
I reckon that from a start up to the redline in 3rd, which is about 90mph, I can match or come very close to a "lot" of cars. Even beyond this it is still quick, but with only about 140bhp to play with (in my case) I begin to loose out at silly speeds.
A standard 106 GTi has the same 1/4 mile time (or faster) as a Ford Mondeo ST24, a Mazda MX-5 1.8i Sport (did one tonight actually), a VW Golf V5 & GTi 1.8T, an MGF 1.8i, an MG ZT, etc... so as quick as (or quicker than) a lot of more expensive machinery.
Then you modify them (they only weigh 960kg) and your bhp/ton increases massively and you can beat lots of stuff. There are several l06's (& Saxo's) about that will easily break a 15secs 1/4 mile, which puts them into serious territory. That's quicker than a new Civic Type-R, an Escort Cossie, a Nissan Sunny GTi-R, etc.. Some modded ones (turbo/supercharged) are even quicker and sniffing the same times as some very exotic machinery!
Now it aint no Scoob, but for a car costing under £12k new it is pretty damn good and it doesn't cost the earth to modify them either. As for handling, the 106 is renowned for being superb.
(Now waiting for massive slagging off!)
Volvo 850R:
Power - 250bhp
0-60 - 7.8secs
1/4 Mile - 16.3secs
Peugeot 106 GTi:
Power - 120bhp
0-60 - 7.4secs
1/4 Mile - 16.5secs
So go on... where's the massive difference?!
The 106 is slightly quicker to 60, but the Volvo's power comes into play as the speed rises, even then it is still bl00dy close. Plus that is for a standard 106, which mine is not!
I reckon that from a start up to the redline in 3rd, which is about 90mph, I can match or come very close to a "lot" of cars. Even beyond this it is still quick, but with only about 140bhp to play with (in my case) I begin to loose out at silly speeds.
A standard 106 GTi has the same 1/4 mile time (or faster) as a Ford Mondeo ST24, a Mazda MX-5 1.8i Sport (did one tonight actually), a VW Golf V5 & GTi 1.8T, an MGF 1.8i, an MG ZT, etc... so as quick as (or quicker than) a lot of more expensive machinery.
Then you modify them (they only weigh 960kg) and your bhp/ton increases massively and you can beat lots of stuff. There are several l06's (& Saxo's) about that will easily break a 15secs 1/4 mile, which puts them into serious territory. That's quicker than a new Civic Type-R, an Escort Cossie, a Nissan Sunny GTi-R, etc.. Some modded ones (turbo/supercharged) are even quicker and sniffing the same times as some very exotic machinery!
Now it aint no Scoob, but for a car costing under £12k new it is pretty damn good and it doesn't cost the earth to modify them either. As for handling, the 106 is renowned for being superb.
(Now waiting for massive slagging off!)
26 March 2002, 08:32 PM
#63
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Its one thing reading about 1/4 mile times, another doing them.
I got a 14.9 @ 89mph in my MY01 with full scoobysport 'zaust and ITG filter (247bhp)
There again I did want a clutch to use on Monday morning
I got a 14.9 @ 89mph in my MY01 with full scoobysport 'zaust and ITG filter (247bhp)
There again I did want a clutch to use on Monday morning
26 March 2002, 08:32 PM
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When I bought my T5, I looked at a red T5R Manual and a the normal T5 that I ended up buying, didnt seem any different to me performance wise, I have driven a T5 V70 and that wasnt as quick as mine.
Mine hasnt got aircon (most have) so it saves 40 kg's, also it had done a lot less miles (40k vs 80k). Was put off the R cos it had a horrid beige leather and coffin wood interior, the ride was way harder and the wheels were kerbed to bits. It did (from the outside) look fantastic though.
I do fancy a VTS to replace my Pug but finding a straight one could be quite a task, my dad and I buy the occasional salvage car to repair and sell on (mainly banger territory minor damage) and the ammount of VTR/VTS's you see in the salvage yards are amazing and most have evidence Max Power stylee mods, I think they look best on a standard ride height without the stupid spoiler, save the dosh to make it go faster !
Mine hasnt got aircon (most have) so it saves 40 kg's, also it had done a lot less miles (40k vs 80k). Was put off the R cos it had a horrid beige leather and coffin wood interior, the ride was way harder and the wheels were kerbed to bits. It did (from the outside) look fantastic though.
I do fancy a VTS to replace my Pug but finding a straight one could be quite a task, my dad and I buy the occasional salvage car to repair and sell on (mainly banger territory minor damage) and the ammount of VTR/VTS's you see in the salvage yards are amazing and most have evidence Max Power stylee mods, I think they look best on a standard ride height without the stupid spoiler, save the dosh to make it go faster !
26 March 2002, 08:42 PM
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I agree, having owned 2 106's and going onto my second Scoob.....
If I can ever, ever get the spare cash lying around, then I will be getting another one as a fun car/missus car. The missus was absolutely heartbroken when I traded her in for the scoob and I was too, to be perfectly honest She was deffo my favorite car so far, the scoob is a different beast, but there really is something special about the little french terriers!
I didn't once get embaressed by anything off the lights, not that I was interested in that really too much ( ehe, who am I kidding about not being a tarmac terrorist!), she was just such a joy to drive with tons of feedback and interaction. To put it into words, it felt 'pretty symbiotic' is all that I can say. Come back girl, all is forgiven.........
http://www.mrfootlong.f2s.com/cars/106gti/pug106.htm
'Sniff'
If I can ever, ever get the spare cash lying around, then I will be getting another one as a fun car/missus car. The missus was absolutely heartbroken when I traded her in for the scoob and I was too, to be perfectly honest
She was deffo my favorite car so far, the scoob is a different beast, but there really is something special about the little french terriers! I didn't once get embaressed by anything off the lights, not that I was interested in that really too much ( ehe, who am I kidding about not being a tarmac terrorist!), she was just such a joy to drive with tons of feedback and interaction. To put it into words, it felt 'pretty symbiotic' is all that I can say. Come back girl, all is forgiven.........
http://www.mrfootlong.f2s.com/cars/106gti/pug106.htm
'Sniff'
26 March 2002, 09:00 PM
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davyboy -
Its one thing reading about 1/4 mile times, another doing them.
Its one thing reading about 1/4 mile times, another doing them.
Ok, in real life my 106 GTi vs my mates Clio 172, up to about 100mph they are virtually identical. Now the Clio is "suppossed" to do the 1/4 mile in 15.0secs, which is b0llox! Either my 106 is a lot faster than it should be or the Clio is slower, either way there is a big discrepancy.
What it says on paper and what "actually" happens can be two completely different things.
- - - - -
Mark Jackson -
The figures you quote may be from Autocar, they tested it on a wet day (I have the test) The figure in the same mag for the standard T5 was 7 seconds dead.
The figures you quote may be from Autocar, they tested it on a wet day (I have the test) The figure in the same mag for the standard T5 was 7 seconds dead.
However, the 1/4 mile time of 16.5secs for the 106 GTi was done by Autocar, again in the wet, I have that mag. The 1/4 mile time for a VTS is 16.1secs, even though the 2 cars are identical!?
As above, what it says on paper and what "actually" happens can be two completely different things.
- - - - -
Mr Footlong -
She was deffo my favorite car so far, the scoob is a different beast, but there really is something special about the little french terriers!
She was deffo my favorite car so far, the scoob is a different beast, but there really is something special about the little french terriers!
Sounds like you really loved that little car. It's not just that they are fairly quick it's the whole package.
My next car will be a Scooby in a few weeks, but I will always remember the 106 with fond memories...
26 March 2002, 09:34 PM
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Rich,
I'd tell yer mate to get his Clio checked, I know for a fact my 172 could trounce a 106 GTI(especially at speeds nearing 100). I've had two 172's, the first one was very lack luster, and felt so under powered. I know plenty of ppl that can get their 172's in the low 15's!
Edited to say - Does your mate look into cliosport.net?
[Edited by bluenose172 - 3/26/2002 9:35:59 PM]
Ok, in real life my 106 GTi vs my mates Clio 172, up to about 100mph they are virtually identical. Now the Clio is "suppossed" to do the 1/4 mile in 15.0secs, which is b0llox! Either my 106 is a lot faster than it should be or the Clio is slower, either way there is a big discrepancy.
Edited to say - Does your mate look into cliosport.net?
[Edited by bluenose172 - 3/26/2002 9:35:59 PM]
26 March 2002, 10:06 PM
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I have raced a 172 sport and we were both ragging it. I only managed to pass him after 100mph, which was in an S3. The 172 is nearly as fast as a MY01 Scoob, and probably as fast from 60-100mph. From my experience the Clio Sport should definately have an edge on the Pug.
As far as I remember Evo mag tested the Clio to do 0-60 in 6.6 and 0-100 on about 17-18 seconds. The Clio is a hooligan!
As far as I remember Evo mag tested the Clio to do 0-60 in 6.6 and 0-100 on about 17-18 seconds. The Clio is a hooligan!
26 March 2002, 10:17 PM
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Oh I geddit, the 106 and VTS have special horsepower that are worth double normal ones, a bit like one human year being equal to seven dog years. Come on, quick little cars but Clio 172 beater, nah
I beat a Scoob WRX on a big roundabout in my Pug 309 1.3, He went round it, I went over it !
Theres always an explanation.
I beat a Scoob WRX on a big roundabout in my Pug 309 1.3, He went round it, I went over it !
Theres always an explanation.
26 March 2002, 10:26 PM
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No, he doesn't like it that much...
However, the Clio 172 is actually just the car he uses for work and he has a tuned EvoVI too!!!
Now I'm a named driver on this car and I've done a few hundred miles in it, so I know what I'm talking about. It's one of the last of the old shape & it's always seemed very "flat" when not in the VVT & not amazing when in VVT. Sounds like your first one actually, very lack luster and under powered, like you said. Did you ever get it sorted?! What can it be?
I think the gearing is wrong on his 172 too (dunno if it's changed on new ones, not driven one), it is geared to high for a hot hatch. The handling is not as good as the 106 either, the Clio also tends to understeer. Big engine in small car puts it off balance.
I knew another lad with a new shape one too (has a V6 now) and that was quicker at Elvington, but not massively, but mine isn't standard and that was.
I am just going off personal experience of these 2 Clios 172's & currently I wouldn't buy one.
However, the Clio 172 is actually just the car he uses for work and he has a tuned EvoVI too!!!
Now I'm a named driver on this car and I've done a few hundred miles in it, so I know what I'm talking about. It's one of the last of the old shape & it's always seemed very "flat" when not in the VVT & not amazing when in VVT. Sounds like your first one actually, very lack luster and under powered, like you said. Did you ever get it sorted?! What can it be?
I think the gearing is wrong on his 172 too (dunno if it's changed on new ones, not driven one), it is geared to high for a hot hatch. The handling is not as good as the 106 either, the Clio also tends to understeer. Big engine in small car puts it off balance.
I knew another lad with a new shape one too (has a V6 now) and that was quicker at Elvington, but not massively, but mine isn't standard and that was.
I am just going off personal experience of these 2 Clios 172's & currently I wouldn't buy one.
26 March 2002, 10:41 PM
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These are from an article in AutoCar...
So, where are these 15.0sec 1/4 mile times & 6.6sec 0-60 times?!
Now the 0-60 of 8.2secs is wrong for both cars, so dunno what the hell gives here?!
This article sums up my 106 & my mates 172 though... close!
[Edited by Rich D - 3/26/2002 10:43:32 PM]
So, where are these 15.0sec 1/4 mile times & 6.6sec 0-60 times?!
Now the 0-60 of 8.2secs is wrong for both cars, so dunno what the hell gives here?!
This article sums up my 106 & my mates 172 though... close!
[Edited by Rich D - 3/26/2002 10:43:32 PM]
26 March 2002, 10:48 PM
#74
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I am sure that I still have my old copy of either Evo or autocar where they test 25-20 hot hatches, with the top award going to the GTI6 coming out first, the 106 GTI coming out second and the 172 coming fourth i think?
The differences in speed on their 3 test runs each were very minimul if memory serves....
Cheers,
Nick
The differences in speed on their 3 test runs each were very minimul if memory serves....
Cheers,
Nick
26 March 2002, 11:09 PM
#76
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Rich D I'm not even going to rise to the bait mate!
All I'm going to say is the 172 that autocar had for that test was completley shagged!
It was also a pre-release example!
All I'm going to say is the 172 that autocar had for that test was completley shagged!
It was also a pre-release example!
26 March 2002, 11:11 PM
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Their loss.... 
Just as much fun and just as manouverable for grown up drivers, as in non 'max power' heads that can actually appreciate them.
I think that most people on here will appreciate that they are good cars, they have just never got to drive one for a few days and enjoy It was rated as the best little hot hatch for a good 3 years after all?
Most people in this discussion are going on about the 'just how fast I can go' factor of these cars in comparison with cars with dirty great turbo's stuck on them. It isn't just about that. It is about the overall driving experience and in their own ways, both the GTI and the Scoob are truly excellent However, I haven't driven a UK scooby, just my old WRX so I don't know how much 'softer' they are in comparison.
Cheers,
Nick
Just as much fun and just as manouverable for grown up drivers, as in non 'max power' heads that can actually appreciate them.
I think that most people on here will appreciate that they are good cars, they have just never got to drive one for a few days and enjoy
It was rated as the best little hot hatch for a good 3 years after all?Most people in this discussion are going on about the 'just how fast I can go' factor of these cars in comparison with cars with dirty great turbo's stuck on them. It isn't just about that. It is about the overall driving experience and in their own ways, both the GTI and the Scoob are truly excellent
However, I haven't driven a UK scooby, just my old WRX so I don't know how much 'softer' they are in comparison.Cheers,
Nick
26 March 2002, 11:14 PM
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That must a test when new as they both are quicker than that surley! Im pretty sure after a few miles they both speed up. My old Fiesta RS1800 (not very fast) did quicker autocar times than that. The VTS/GTi a very good cars - tinny, dent very easily but handle superbly. You cannot realisticly compare 2 cars from a chase down the motorway or along the bends as there are 2 different drivers (the most important part of a car).
26 March 2002, 11:26 PM
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bluenose172 -
In that case, is my mates Clio 172 sh@gged too? I think not.
Explain then why it is NOT as quick as it should be?!
You said your first one was underpowered, so why? Did you ever get it sorted? If so, what was it as my mate would "love" to find out!
Don't get me wrong, I do actually like Renaults, I own an R5 GT Turbo as well and I nearly bought a Clio 16V once, so I'm not "anti Clio". I'm not trolling here either, this is just my experience of 172's.
[Edited by Rich D - 3/26/2002 11:27:58 PM]
In that case, is my mates Clio 172 sh@gged too? I think not.
Explain then why it is NOT as quick as it should be?!
You said your first one was underpowered, so why? Did you ever get it sorted? If so, what was it as my mate would "love" to find out!
Don't get me wrong, I do actually like Renaults, I own an R5 GT Turbo as well and I nearly bought a Clio 16V once, so I'm not "anti Clio". I'm not trolling here either, this is just my experience of 172's.
[Edited by Rich D - 3/26/2002 11:27:58 PM]
26 March 2002, 11:33 PM
#81
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There is no point in commenting on your previous post, regarding the Autocar test mate!
The 0-100 time is 6 seconds off any other test I have seen!
The first 172 I had was replaced under warrenty due to paint imperfections, so no, I didn't get the other one sorted!
The 0-100 time is 6 seconds off any other test I have seen!
The first 172 I had was replaced under warrenty due to paint imperfections, so no, I didn't get the other one sorted!
26 March 2002, 11:47 PM
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Ok,
Are you happier with this?!
Renault Clio Sport 172:
Power - 170bhp
0-30 - 2.5secs
0-60 - 6.6secs
0-100 - 17.9secs
1/4 Mile - 15.0secs @ 94mph
The thing is that I'm only going off the 172's I have experience with and they do not go as fast as those stats would suggest.
Hell, I would have bought a Clio 172 myself by now if I hadn't driven my mates so much.
You can actually get a brand new Clio 172 for only £11,699 from a car supermarket near me and I would have snapped one up. That is bl00dy cheap and they are a steal at that price.
Find me a proper (standard) one that does exactly what it says above, let me experience it and I'll change my mind. When they came out at first I had planned on replacing my 106 GTi with one, but not now.
Until then, my next car is very likely to be a Subaru and in the next few weeks...
Are you happier with this?!
Renault Clio Sport 172:
Power - 170bhp
0-30 - 2.5secs
0-60 - 6.6secs
0-100 - 17.9secs
1/4 Mile - 15.0secs @ 94mph
The thing is that I'm only going off the 172's I have experience with and they do not go as fast as those stats would suggest.
Hell, I would have bought a Clio 172 myself by now if I hadn't driven my mates so much.
You can actually get a brand new Clio 172 for only £11,699 from a car supermarket near me and I would have snapped one up. That is bl00dy cheap and they are a steal at that price.
Find me a proper (standard) one that does exactly what it says above, let me experience it and I'll change my mind. When they came out at first I had planned on replacing my 106 GTi with one, but not now.
Until then, my next car is very likely to be a Subaru and in the next few weeks...
27 March 2002, 12:45 AM
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PERFORMANCE -
Imagine: You touch the steering wheel. You turn the key. Feel the power of the 2.0 16V 172bhp engine with a close ratio gearbox which optimises engine torque even at low revs. It purrs, ready to respond to your desires - ready to take you from 0 to 62mph in just seven seconds.
Its low profile chassis sits solidly on 16" alloy wheels, giving the Clio Renaultsport 172 outstanding handling precision and control. Its superb set-up responds to even the most challenging driving conditions with precision and finesse.
The open road awaits
Imagine: You touch the steering wheel. You turn the key. Feel the power of the 2.0 16V 172bhp engine with a close ratio gearbox which optimises engine torque even at low revs. It purrs, ready to respond to your desires - ready to take you from 0 to 62mph in just seven seconds.
Its low profile chassis sits solidly on 16" alloy wheels, giving the Clio Renaultsport 172 outstanding handling precision and control. Its superb set-up responds to even the most challenging driving conditions with precision and finesse.
The open road awaits
Just some advertising spiel about the Clio. Anyone can play at that...