Saxo VTS
23 March 2002, 11:17 AM
#31
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Those VTR figures are days out!!! The VTS (using stopwatch) does the 30-70 pretty much as per the book figures. I'd have taken her back to the dealer if it was that bad.
Generally speaking a stop watch and non-calibrated speedo will IMHO give a fairly accurate 'indication' of speed and time taken. At the end of the day if you .5 of a second + or - to 60mph then that is going to be a matter of a few feet on the road, if that.
As another indication when the Saxo has raced other cars and been neck and neck I look up its book figure for the other car and pulling all of these 'indications' together I'd say the VTS is quite capable of a genuine 7.5 to 60 and 20 secs to 100. Even quicker on a cold day, the VTS loves cold air. As long as the scooby I get nails my in the seat the way the Saxo can't I'll be happy.
Generally speaking a stop watch and non-calibrated speedo will IMHO give a fairly accurate 'indication' of speed and time taken. At the end of the day if you .5 of a second + or - to 60mph then that is going to be a matter of a few feet on the road, if that.
As another indication when the Saxo has raced other cars and been neck and neck I look up its book figure for the other car and pulling all of these 'indications' together I'd say the VTS is quite capable of a genuine 7.5 to 60 and 20 secs to 100. Even quicker on a cold day, the VTS loves cold air. As long as the scooby I get nails my in the seat the way the Saxo can't I'll be happy.
23 March 2002, 02:55 PM
#33
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As I said, 0-60 is crap these days...... get it up the 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or 0-100, 0-120MPH and see what its like.....
psssst..... I woulda put 0-140 but we all know standard UK scoobs cant get that far
23 March 2002, 04:45 PM
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LOL Richie, you are thinking of the new UK Scoobs, the old ones could do, just took a long while, from a standing start the whole length of the straight at Bruntingthorpe for my old one 
23 March 2002, 07:54 PM
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LOL - Saxo Boy and his stop watch LOL - why dont they use you at the Grand Prixs to time the cars. Get it timed properly or stop quoting hot air times. Oh BTW my FRST does 0-60 in under 7 secs and isnt running full boost (so my stop watch says) LOL. You are currently liveing up to the Max Poo typical Saxo owner
[Edited by Carlos The Jackel - 3/23/2002 7:56:42 PM]
(so my stop watch says) LOL. You are currently liveing up to the Max Poo typical Saxo owner[Edited by Carlos The Jackel - 3/23/2002 7:56:42 PM]
24 March 2002, 11:37 AM
#37
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I agree Rich the 0-100 is a better representation of a cars true straight line pulling power. The Saxo pulls hard up to about 85 and then it's slower progress from there.
And stop getting stuck in about the Saxo being some sort of Max Heads plaything. At the end of the day it's has put egg on the face of many a driver of more powerful cars but likewise has been beaten too - that's life! My car is totally standard and does not have stupid big spoilers and a Kenwood sticker accross the back so I'm not a Maxhead!
For crying out loud I'm not trying to argue that the VTS is better than a scooby or anything like that so please will everyone get off their high horse. This whole thread started cause I feel IMHO that for £10,800 I chose well. All I wanted to know if other people enjoy/enjoyed driving the Saxo and didn't want to get into a debate of how fast it is, I know that, I drive it every day!!
And stop getting stuck in about the Saxo being some sort of Max Heads plaything. At the end of the day it's has put egg on the face of many a driver of more powerful cars but likewise has been beaten too - that's life! My car is totally standard and does not have stupid big spoilers and a Kenwood sticker accross the back so I'm not a Maxhead!
For crying out loud I'm not trying to argue that the VTS is better than a scooby or anything like that so please will everyone get off their high horse. This whole thread started cause I feel IMHO that for £10,800 I chose well. All I wanted to know if other people enjoy/enjoyed driving the Saxo and didn't want to get into a debate of how fast it is, I know that, I drive it every day!!
24 March 2002, 11:43 AM
#38
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Dream Weaver -
Aye, that GPS thing is apparently "very" accurate.
He's tested the Evo & the Clio with it so far. He said the speedo in the Evo was very accurate and only about 1mph out at 100mph and the Clio was about 4-5mph out at 100mph.
Gonna try it on mine too, we can do yours as well if ya want!
Aye, that GPS thing is apparently "very" accurate.
He's tested the Evo & the Clio with it so far. He said the speedo in the Evo was very accurate and only about 1mph out at 100mph and the Clio was about 4-5mph out at 100mph.
Gonna try it on mine too, we can do yours as well if ya want!
24 March 2002, 11:56 AM
#39
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Having driven a saxo VTS for a week and owned a 106GTI and XSI, I think that I can comment, at least with my own views. Very similar chassis, but the VTS feels less composed. Harsher suspension equals good cornering, but a bumpier ride. The GTI handles just as well, but has a little more 'grace' to it. Cross country performance is completely effortless with the pug soaking up the potholes and undulations with ease, but I felt that the VTS was a little twitchy in comparison.
With regards to engine performance, the original VTS' were actually slightly slower than the GTI's. The VTS came out first, if memory serves and was such a success, that the big brother Peugeot had a job on it's hands to get as much recognition/sales out of it's soon to be released GTI. The initial test/release builds were actually slightly limited by Peugeot, in order to get an insurance classification of 13 at the time, compared with 14 for the VTS. If they had not limited the initial builds, the GTI would have most likely been given a 15 classification, which would have been bonkers for car of that size.
The engines are basically identical, but the GTI had a better fuel injection system fitted, giving her more power. I believe that it is very likely tht this is what was one of the things added to the series 2 VTS engines.
The interior is more basic on the VTS, at least the one that I drove, but it wasn't trying to be refined, that it not what the VTS is about. The GTI, with the alacantara/leather interior was beautiful IMO. The VTS just tries to come across as a slightly more 'ruff&ready' GTI.
Both great cars, but I would take the GTI every time!
Loved my one easily as much as my old scoob and the handling was simply phenomenal, at least with my tweaked beast
Pin-sharp handling on both, so easy to whack the back out if you wanted, especially in the wet, but soooooooo easy to correct back again. Absolutely bloody loved it. Controlled slides were easy as pie if you were feeling playful and th chassis provides so much feedback, you always know what is happening
Cheers,
Nick
Have a look at my profile to see my homepage with details of my old Pug.
With regards to engine performance, the original VTS' were actually slightly slower than the GTI's. The VTS came out first, if memory serves and was such a success, that the big brother Peugeot had a job on it's hands to get as much recognition/sales out of it's soon to be released GTI. The initial test/release builds were actually slightly limited by Peugeot, in order to get an insurance classification of 13 at the time, compared with 14 for the VTS. If they had not limited the initial builds, the GTI would have most likely been given a 15 classification, which would have been bonkers for car of that size.
The engines are basically identical, but the GTI had a better fuel injection system fitted, giving her more power. I believe that it is very likely tht this is what was one of the things added to the series 2 VTS engines.
The interior is more basic on the VTS, at least the one that I drove, but it wasn't trying to be refined, that it not what the VTS is about. The GTI, with the alacantara/leather interior was beautiful IMO. The VTS just tries to come across as a slightly more 'ruff&ready' GTI.
Both great cars, but I would take the GTI every time!
Loved my one easily as much as my old scoob and the handling was simply phenomenal, at least with my tweaked beast
Pin-sharp handling on both, so easy to whack the back out if you wanted, especially in the wet, but soooooooo easy to correct back again. Absolutely bloody loved it. Controlled slides were easy as pie if you were feeling playful and th chassis provides so much feedback, you always know what is happening
Cheers,
Nick
Have a look at my profile to see my homepage with details of my old Pug.
24 March 2002, 12:39 PM
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I can't comment on the 106 GTI myself as I've haven't driven one but I recognise a lot of what you say footlong. The VTS isn't the biggest of fans of a pothall when cornering hard but provided the road isn't too uneven you just chuck her in and choose whether you'd like to run wide or throw the back end. I usually dab the brakes and loose the back end myself It's all fun!
It's all fun!
24 March 2002, 09:26 PM
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hate to break the news but a saxo VTS is in Insurance group 15 this year!!
As for all the comments about the VTS here is what I think (don't mean to cause any offence)
Speedo on a Saxo is out for sure I have had a speedo reading of 140 so we all know it wont do that!
My vts seem to not "run out of puff" until about 110 then it seem to get slow but still is bloody quick for such a little car!!
Saxyboys point was and I agree totally that you cannot get a better value car for it's money (new)
I'm sad to let mine go but I think it's time to move to a bigger car before I kill myself
rant over Mike
As for all the comments about the VTS here is what I think (don't mean to cause any offence)
Speedo on a Saxo is out for sure I have had a speedo reading of 140 so we all know it wont do that!
My vts seem to not "run out of puff" until about 110 then it seem to get slow but still is bloody quick for such a little car!!
Saxyboys point was and I agree totally that you cannot get a better value car for it's money (new)
I'm sad to let mine go but I think it's time to move to a bigger car before I kill myself
rant over Mike
24 March 2002, 09:36 PM
#42
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I talking about 4/5years ago and the mild dodgy that Peugeot played to get lower insurance. Like I said, the 106 GTI's had a better fuel injection system then the revision 1 VTS'. Chances are that this was rectified with the revision 2, helping to up the insurance category.
Don't actually know if the fuel injection system was uprated on the revision 2's, but there you go. All I can say is that for the year that I owned my GTI, I didn't find any VTS' with as much straight line speed, before and after the modifications.
Cheers,
Nick
Don't actually know if the fuel injection system was uprated on the revision 2's, but there you go. All I can say is that for the year that I owned my GTI, I didn't find any VTS' with as much straight line speed, before and after the modifications.
Cheers,
Nick
24 March 2002, 09:42 PM
#43
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Funnily Enough, had ago against one tonight from a standstill, it was a blue one lowered with a loud Exhaust, made a blatant lane switch at the last moment to get in the out side lane, quick little car, 1st I was struggling for grip, second I was struggling for grip but matching its pace, Then I got the top end turbo rush and pulled away a little bit, third gear and I started pulling away, I got to 80 and slowed down and let him past (it was a 50)
uspect it I had kept going I would have dissapeared but I had to work bloody hard to get rid of it with a 225 BHP T5. Why oh Why do the ALL wear baseball caps though ?
By the way those figures for the MK1 GTI are well out, they are for the first four speeder, the later 5 speeder was quicker by about 5 seconds due to not having to change into top before the ton, the 1.8 would not be as quick as a VTS but they are 112 BHP standard and the VTS is 120, they weigh about the same so I dont think there is that much in it, anyway, how many standard Golf MK1's are there ?
uspect it I had kept going I would have dissapeared but I had to work bloody hard to get rid of it with a 225 BHP T5. Why oh Why do the ALL wear baseball caps though ?
By the way those figures for the MK1 GTI are well out, they are for the first four speeder, the later 5 speeder was quicker by about 5 seconds due to not having to change into top before the ton, the 1.8 would not be as quick as a VTS but they are 112 BHP standard and the VTS is 120, they weigh about the same so I dont think there is that much in it, anyway, how many standard Golf MK1's are there ?
25 March 2002, 05:28 PM
#44
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I hereby write to confirm that I do not own a baseball cap or indeed any hat of any description. Furthermore, I don't have a magic tree or fluffy dice, etc!
If you were getting wheelspin in 1st and 2nd then I presume the road was wet or slippy in which case capboy would be having a nightmare of a time too cause the VTS loves to light her wheels!
If you were getting wheelspin in 1st and 2nd then I presume the road was wet or slippy in which case capboy would be having a nightmare of a time too cause the VTS loves to light her wheels!
25 March 2002, 06:43 PM
#46
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Tell me about it!!! 
Getting traction in the wet is a nightmare.
How much was the traction control Footlong?! They could do with summat to stop them spinning.
Anyway, it's 4wd time soon.
Getting traction in the wet is a nightmare.
How much was the traction control Footlong?! They could do with summat to stop them spinning.
Anyway, it's 4wd time soon.
25 March 2002, 07:26 PM
#47
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I got sponsorship from Racelogic to have it fitted. They had never done a car like mine and were eager to try Being the colour that she was and with the leather interior, she stood out a fair bit. I got it all fitted for about £650, a little over half price for the kit that I had fitted if memory serves. Took her there for a day and borrowed their 306 Rallye and went off shopping with the missus in Milton Keynes.
A little more detail is available on my website in my profile
Cheers,
Nick
[Edited by Mr Footlong - 3/25/2002 7:27:15 PM]
Being the colour that she was and with the leather interior, she stood out a fair bit. I got it all fitted for about £650, a little over half price for the kit that I had fitted if memory serves. Took her there for a day and borrowed their 306 Rallye and went off shopping with the missus in Milton Keynes.A little more detail is available on my website in my profile
Cheers,
Nick
[Edited by Mr Footlong - 3/25/2002 7:27:15 PM]
26 March 2002, 07:14 AM
#49
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Not bad. Not quite as much punch as my gti, but she was packing more weight it felt, still had sharp handling. Just felt a little more 'Grown up' really, despite being stripped out a tad. The 6 speed box made a nice change. Like super cruising. Don't feel qualified tocomment too much, as I knly got to drive it for about 40 miles or so.....
Cheers,
Nick.
Cheers,
Nick.
26 March 2002, 11:53 AM
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Saxo Boy, A volvo T5 with front wheel drive and no traction control struggles for grip on pristine bone dry tarmac, its a fact of life and why I now buy el cheapo tyres. It was about even until the extra 105 bhp was put down effectivly. I was well impressed with how quick it was !
26 March 2002, 01:16 PM
#51
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The Saxo will spin in the dry as well if your silly with it but then so would almost any car!! I suspect your being a little greedy with the throttle cause there should be no excuse in the dry unless you have huge power and low-down torque!! Glad you had fun and also the sense to slow down before speeds got silly.
26 March 2002, 01:38 PM
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Saxo, yep I dont go too silly, you are welcome to try and make a clean getaway in a car with,
225 BHP
Front Wheel Drive
No Traction Control
1420 Kilos
A Turbo power delivery
Big Torque
Modest (205/55/ZR16) tyres
I am not trying to brag (not with a Volvo) I am just saying its a bad combo for lightning fast starts, a Scoob with similar stats (power to weight) does 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds wheras the Volvo takes 7.0. Its very difficult to modulate the throttle between boost, traction and progress, its best to gently move off and get into second before nailing it when you stand a chance of putting the power down.
Why anybody gets them chipped I dont know !
225 BHP
Front Wheel Drive
No Traction Control
1420 Kilos
A Turbo power delivery
Big Torque
Modest (205/55/ZR16) tyres
I am not trying to brag (not with a Volvo) I am just saying its a bad combo for lightning fast starts, a Scoob with similar stats (power to weight) does 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds wheras the Volvo takes 7.0. Its very difficult to modulate the throttle between boost, traction and progress, its best to gently move off and get into second before nailing it when you stand a chance of putting the power down.
Why anybody gets them chipped I dont know !
26 March 2002, 03:52 PM
#53
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I've had a do at a T5 from some traffic lights before in my modded 106 GTi and easily got in front, but like you say the traction is an issue in the Volvo. All that grunt low down in not fwd friendly.
Volvo T5 - 225bhp/1420kg = 158bhp/ton
My 106 GTi - 141bhp/960kg = 147bhp/ton
Not a massive amount in it anyway power/weight wise, but I did get a good start and was well away!
Just to show the difference, here are figures for a boggo 106 GTi and my mates well modded 106 GTi!
Standard 106 - 120bhp/960kg = 125bhp/ton
Mates 106 - 174bhp/960kg = 181bhp/ton
That modded one is very very quick by the way!
Volvo T5 - 225bhp/1420kg = 158bhp/ton
My 106 GTi - 141bhp/960kg = 147bhp/ton
Not a massive amount in it anyway power/weight wise, but I did get a good start and was well away!
Just to show the difference, here are figures for a boggo 106 GTi and my mates well modded 106 GTi!
Standard 106 - 120bhp/960kg = 125bhp/ton
Mates 106 - 174bhp/960kg = 181bhp/ton
That modded one is very very quick by the way!
26 March 2002, 04:15 PM
#54
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Rich D
what you didnt say was how long before the T5 passed you?
If he didnt there was no way he was trying- one of them would absolutely waste a 106 Gti at anything over about 30mph- ie when the wheels stopped spinning!
what you didnt say was how long before the T5 passed you?
If he didnt there was no way he was trying- one of them would absolutely waste a 106 Gti at anything over about 30mph- ie when the wheels stopped spinning!
26 March 2002, 05:20 PM
#55
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No he wouldn't if the GTI was being driven properly. He wouldn't start to power past at all until 70+ was reached by both cars.
My boss has a V70 T5, I had a 106GTI, we compared performance specs and we both drove home the same way. Suffice to say that we tried it many times with and without my TC on/tweaked.........
Sorry, but just my personal experiences.
Cheers,
Nick.
My boss has a V70 T5, I had a 106GTI, we compared performance specs and we both drove home the same way. Suffice to say that we tried it many times with and without my TC on/tweaked.........
Sorry, but just my personal experiences.
Cheers,
Nick.
26 March 2002, 06:56 PM
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I agree with Rich, I recon I could give a T5 a real fright until the end of 3rd gear (85mph) but then I'd stuggle (obviously). Personally, I'm at the end of the road with FWD!! I was at a garage tonight at 5 and had to nail it to get into the traffic. Put the power down a fraction to early in first (nice sunny weather) and ended up spinning. To the guy in the old BMW 3 series - sorry, and glad you were paying attention. I remember thinking, when I get my scooby.....
26 March 2002, 07:15 PM
#58
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No Saxo Boy, the T5-R does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds so by 85MPH the full brunt of around 270lb.ft can be fed the non-spinning wheels.
The Torque available in a turbo car at such low revs is something an N/A car can only dream of IMHO.
26 March 2002, 07:29 PM
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Fair enough, I've just found in my experience that the VTS only really begins to rapidly fall away against such cars after you change her into 4th. I really want a good old fashioned drag race with a scooby (in safe conditions of course) but I never seem to see many when I'm out and about :-(
26 March 2002, 07:31 PM
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Pants!! Just realised we've switched from talking about the T5 to the T5-R. Sorry didn't realise that, you're right then - she's off into the horizon when I shift into 3rd (65) instead of 4th!
[Edited by Saxo Boy - 3/26/2002 7:32:12 PM]
[Edited by Saxo Boy - 3/26/2002 7:32:12 PM]