intercooler test
14 December 2009, 02:46 PM
#31
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lmao, don't believe all you read on that site lol
depending on how much you call decent power. the higher figures he quotes on his site im yet to find a tuner who actualy does the work who recomend pushing that far without a rebuild.
330-340 is easily achieveable on a my00, where mine is, but your pushing it and unless you put supporting mods on it wont last very long, biggest killer is oil temps and you'll be up there pushign that sort of power.
depending on how much you call decent power. the higher figures he quotes on his site im yet to find a tuner who actualy does the work who recomend pushing that far without a rebuild.
330-340 is easily achieveable on a my00, where mine is, but your pushing it and unless you put supporting mods on it wont last very long, biggest killer is oil temps and you'll be up there pushign that sort of power.
14 December 2009, 03:55 PM
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14 December 2009, 04:16 PM
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As for your times at Santa Pod. I'd be far happier for you to arrive at the start line stone cold, bonnet up and so on and then give it the beans for 13 seconds, rather than arrive with the bonnet shut and intercooler temps through the roof. [ This is for top mount I/c cars only before you all jump on me
] Neither way is great, or recommended, but in the long term cold is doing less harm.
David APi
14 December 2009, 04:16 PM
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14 December 2009, 04:22 PM
#37
you have to be in a special club to bait Bob..............
14 December 2009, 04:39 PM
#38
Trevor, next time you're over here we'll do a simple test. We have an infra red temperature tester. We'll test the car as soon as you arrive after a good run. Then leave it with the bonnet shut for 30 seconds [ traffic lights time ] and re-measure the temps Then we'll have an idea of the intercooler core temp and potential heat soak.
In reality, this means if I pull up to a temporary stop (eg lights) with engine running, I'm more than happy to push the pedal to the metal when I get going. However, if I've been parked up for a few minutes, I would hold back for 2-3 minutes until charge temps are down.
Obviously, these problems don't apply to a FMIC but living out in the sticks with the nearest traffic lights more than 20 miles away, the TMIC (with all its drawbacks) works well on the road for me, especialy as I've got a bit of a 'thing' about throttle response
If I were to use the car on the track however, it'd be FMIC all the way.Should also add here that I run a 321H and the car makes 415bhp / 380ft/lb of torque on Zen's rollers (renowned for giving conservative figures). Indeed, a recent dyno run, Paul commented that he's yet to see a car running an H on a 2L engine producing as much torque. Of course, maybe I could get a little bit more torque using a FMIC, but my point here is that for ordinary road use on the open road, it's not all bad news for TMIC users (runs for cover
)
Last edited by lunar tick; 14 December 2009 at 04:43 PM.
14 December 2009, 04:44 PM
#39
Trevor, next time you're over here we'll do a simple test. We have an infra red temperature tester. We'll test the car as soon as you arrive after a good run. Then leave it with the bonnet shut for 30 seconds [ traffic lights time ] and re-measure the temps Then we'll have an idea of the intercooler core temp and potential heat soak.
As for your times at Santa Pod. I'd be far happier for you to arrive at the start line stone cold, bonnet up and so on and then give it the beans for 13 seconds, rather than arrive with the bonnet shut and intercooler temps through the roof. [ This is for top mount I/c cars only before you all jump on me ]
Neither way is great, or recommended, but in the long term cold is doing less harm.
David APi
As for your times at Santa Pod. I'd be far happier for you to arrive at the start line stone cold, bonnet up and so on and then give it the beans for 13 seconds, rather than arrive with the bonnet shut and intercooler temps through the roof. [ This is for top mount I/c cars only before you all jump on me
] Neither way is great, or recommended, but in the long term cold is doing less harm.
David APi
See you in the New Year
14 December 2009, 05:06 PM
#40
David
14 December 2009, 05:29 PM
#42
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oilcooler, nocklink, decent set of gauges, gearbox and clutch are way up on there limit at that sort of power too, also maf is extreamly week on that year (mine blew 2 during mapping before being replaed with autronics, the nock control is also extreamly good thing to have). brakes and suspension also arn't gonna be the best for that sort of power. your also gonna be wanting to run it on vpower.
14 December 2009, 05:30 PM
#43
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Should also add here that I run a 321H and the car makes 415bhp / 380ft/lb of torque on Zen's rollers (renowned for giving conservative figures). Indeed, a recent dyno run, Paul commented that he's yet to see a car running an H on a 2L engine producing as much torque. Of course, maybe I could get a little bit more torque using a FMIC, but my point here is that for ordinary road use on the open road, it's not all bad news for TMIC users (runs for cover )
)
As you know, I have a smaller turbo the good ole VF35 and mine (before the Simtek and *ahem* boost increase) was making 343 ft lbs, up from around 320 ft lbs (on a cool day) with the standard MY99 TMIC. But the really noticeable thing was how much more aggressively the car came on boost with the FMIC. Not sure whether that was the 5 degrees of extra ignition advance Bob dialed in with the FMIC, as the torque increase alone doesn't seem to correspond with the bum dyno. With the Simtek, Bob turned the wick up to 1.4 bar, so probably even making a bit more torque now..... If only Simtek had a Delta dyno feature
Just me offering my 2 cents as usual
14 December 2009, 05:50 PM
#44
Hiya mate. I really would love to see what torque your car (obviously a good example) would produce with with an FMIC though!
As you know, I have a smaller turbo the good ole VF35 and mine (before the Simtek and *ahem* boost increase) was making 343 ft lbs, up from around 320 ft lbs (on a cool day) with the standard MY99 TMIC. But the really noticeable thing was how much more aggressively the car came on boost with the FMIC. Not sure whether that was the 5 degrees of extra ignition advance Bob dialed in with the FMIC, as the torque increase alone doesn't seem to correspond with the bum dyno. With the Simtek, Bob turned the wick up to 1.4 bar, so probably even making a bit more torque now..... If only Simtek had a Delta dyno feature
Just me offering my 2 cents as usual
As you know, I have a smaller turbo the good ole VF35 and mine (before the Simtek and *ahem* boost increase) was making 343 ft lbs, up from around 320 ft lbs (on a cool day) with the standard MY99 TMIC. But the really noticeable thing was how much more aggressively the car came on boost with the FMIC. Not sure whether that was the 5 degrees of extra ignition advance Bob dialed in with the FMIC, as the torque increase alone doesn't seem to correspond with the bum dyno. With the Simtek, Bob turned the wick up to 1.4 bar, so probably even making a bit more torque now..... If only Simtek had a Delta dyno feature
Just me offering my 2 cents as usual
Are you based in bonny Scotlandshire or did I imagine that? If so, I'm up and down to Glasgow quite a bit at the moment so you'd be more than welcome to come for a spin in the old girl and see what she can do with just a TMIC FITTED 
Last edited by lunar tick; 14 December 2009 at 05:51 PM.
14 December 2009, 06:38 PM
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14 December 2009, 07:26 PM
#47
The article doesn't test a STi8 TMIC anyhow. I don't think there was ever any doubt that if you are into dyno queening, then a FMIC is the correct choice.
However, if you're interested in having a quick, responsive, moderately tuned car on the other hand...
Never been interested in dyno figures myself, but would rather the car go quickly.
2.35ltr build underway which will be using one of our FMICs
14 December 2009, 10:32 PM
#49
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Are these the tests you are on about?
AutoSpeed - Top-Mount Trial - Part One
AutoSpeed - Top-Mount Trial - Part Two
Last edited by FLAT ERIC; 14 December 2009 at 10:43 PM.
15 December 2009, 07:39 AM
#50
Bob:
Now that you have come back, deal with the unfinished business on post #11 which was the cause of your departure.
This is a slur if it is aimed at me and Jeff. I have no arrangement with Jeff to advertise my products whatsoever and I have not asked him for any recommendations but he did see my extensive stock level, after your slur about photographing the same intercoolers outside. These were still outside when Jeff was here but not now as they have been sold. You had been claiming biggest stock level for weeks prior to this. Obviously another fanciful marketing claim on your part. Jeff had the misfortune to total his engine in France. He is a fellow Subaru enthusiast and I have offered to do his rebuild over a period of time at advantageous rates so the charge to him is not a drive in drive out price and we can work on his car when time permits. Simple as that. Helping someone in this way may seem alien to you, apart from your having no workshop but my arrangmenet with Jeff/Alcazar has no other caveat and categorically I have not asked him to promote my goods or services.
I have tested the STi 8 top mount intercooler thoroughly and it would still be on my car if it was the best option. When it was fitted it only had to perform as well or nearly as well as some of the pundits were telling us. As said by Splitpin elsewhere, anecdotal evidence is not good enough and there is no substitute for careful testing and tabulating the results.
Trevor: When I had a brief drive in your car I did not consider that on the road air charge temperatures from your top mount were a major concern. The place to measure the temperature on your top mount is where the short stub goes to the throttle body on the flat surface on the bottom of the intercooler at the throttle body exit. While temperatures on a brief test drive were acceptable it would be interesting to know what temperatures were achieved under full power on a rolling road. I am sure a front mount would improve your car and result in more ultimate bhp but from what I saw it would not be a high priority and I would want to get to the bottom of your apparent lack of power and when API have their rolling road operational they have all the facilities to do that.
I'll refrain from saying anymore.
Weren't you doing the advertising for someone on here in return for lower product costs not too long ago
The article doesn't test a STi8 TMIC anyhow.
Trevor: When I had a brief drive in your car I did not consider that on the road air charge temperatures from your top mount were a major concern. The place to measure the temperature on your top mount is where the short stub goes to the throttle body on the flat surface on the bottom of the intercooler at the throttle body exit. While temperatures on a brief test drive were acceptable it would be interesting to know what temperatures were achieved under full power on a rolling road. I am sure a front mount would improve your car and result in more ultimate bhp but from what I saw it would not be a high priority and I would want to get to the bottom of your apparent lack of power and when API have their rolling road operational they have all the facilities to do that.
Last edited by harvey; 15 December 2009 at 07:45 AM.
15 December 2009, 09:58 AM
#51
Bait away, no hard feelings. The article doesn't test a STi8 TMIC anyhow.
I don't think there was ever any doubt that if you are into dyno queening, then a FMIC is the correct choice.
However, if you're interested in having a quick, responsive, moderately tuned car on the other hand...
Never been interested in dyno figures myself, but would rather the car go quickly.
2.35ltr build underway which will be using one of our FMICs
The article doesn't test a STi8 TMIC anyhow. I don't think there was ever any doubt that if you are into dyno queening, then a FMIC is the correct choice.
However, if you're interested in having a quick, responsive, moderately tuned car on the other hand...
Never been interested in dyno figures myself, but would rather the car go quickly.
2.35ltr build underway which will be using one of our FMICs
as i said in the post and i mean no disrespect with this but i was under the impression that you were only sales via the internet and did not have a workshop or premises to carry out work / fitting / testing etc of products.
if possible i would like to come up and say hi and see your place in the new year as i am picking up a new impreza (cross fingers) this weekend and will be looking to make some tasteful improvements to it so it would be good to see what you have, what you can offer etc
kind regards
steve
15 December 2009, 10:23 AM
#53
I think this is heading towards STICKY territory......I'm opting for it to be made a sticky in the tech advice section..
Hybrid FMIC for me from Mesiour Harvey when funds and time permits.
Hybrid FMIC for me from Mesiour Harvey when funds and time permits.
Last edited by STI_Baly; 15 December 2009 at 10:43 AM.
15 December 2009, 10:25 AM
#54
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oilcooler, nocklink, decent set of gauges, gearbox and clutch are way up on there limit at that sort of power too, also maf is extreamly week on that year (mine blew 2 during mapping before being replaed with autronics, the nock control is also extreamly good thing to have). brakes and suspension also arn't gonna be the best for that sort of power. your also gonna be wanting to run it on vpower.
15 December 2009, 10:27 AM
#55
WHY NOT, if he has had the time to put into testing the inytercooler theory and has a customers 2.35 under way then surely bob has the facilities and a workshop / garage ?
i wil await bob to reply before judging him or bob feel free to pm if you wish
cheers
i wil await bob to reply before judging him or bob feel free to pm if you wish
cheers
or was he refering to a TMIC of some kind?
15 December 2009, 12:58 PM
#58
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i cant belive the top mount costs more than the front mount, i thought it would be the other way around.
15 December 2009, 01:03 PM
#59
15 December 2009, 02:00 PM
#60
Hi Steve, yes that is correct, pile 'em high type outfit here. No workshop.
Still welcome to drop by. Contact details can be found on AZTEC PERFORMANCE ONLINE STORE - WHOLESALE PRICES DIRECT TO THE PUBLIC
2.35ltr build is on my own car. Been around Imprezas for some 9 years now and my comments are based on personal experience and the views/advice of the most accomplished mapper around who maps the car.
Seen far too many FMIC owners wondering why they have been shown a clean set of heels by a car with 100 odd bhp less and a TMIC, so seek to address some of the sales spiel that goes on about FMICs.
Yes, we sell plenty of FMICs, but ring up and ask for advice on a moderately tuned car and you're likely be advised that a secondhand STi8 TMIC from here or ebay is the best way to go for a road car.
Have been to a fair few workshops and so-called tuners over the years, so can recommend some tried and tested places if needed as there are far too many cowboys out there.
Indeed, there will be a list of recommended tuners and workshops available via our website soon
Still welcome to drop by. Contact details can be found on AZTEC PERFORMANCE ONLINE STORE - WHOLESALE PRICES DIRECT TO THE PUBLIC
2.35ltr build is on my own car. Been around Imprezas for some 9 years now and my comments are based on personal experience and the views/advice of the most accomplished mapper around who maps the car.
Seen far too many FMIC owners wondering why they have been shown a clean set of heels by a car with 100 odd bhp less and a TMIC, so seek to address some of the sales spiel that goes on about FMICs.
Yes, we sell plenty of FMICs, but ring up and ask for advice on a moderately tuned car and you're likely be advised that a secondhand STi8 TMIC from here or ebay is the best way to go for a road car.
Have been to a fair few workshops and so-called tuners over the years, so can recommend some tried and tested places if needed as there are far too many cowboys out there.
Indeed, there will be a list of recommended tuners and workshops available via our website soon