Impreza P1 or STI Ver.VI Type R?
02 October 2009, 08:21 PM
#62
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02 October 2009, 08:44 PM
#64
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Don't know where you've got understeer from tony when the diff's open, it oversteer's like mad(especially in the wet) when you plant it into a rounabout the back end will step out thus= oversteer, never ever experienced understeer either when the diff is rolled forward just feels like it's on rails, think you will have to be going stupid speeds to make a type r understeer when the diff is rolled forward.
Also got the P1 suspension set up on my type r ( the only difference been the eibach springs, the struts are exatly the same) and would have to say it vastly improves the handling and does feel more planted.
Also got the P1 suspension set up on my type r ( the only difference been the eibach springs, the struts are exatly the same) and would have to say it vastly improves the handling and does feel more planted.
02 October 2009, 09:18 PM
#66
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one for the type r's lol, this one i presume was going to be a prototype for the p1 cause prodrive imported it from new but they must have changed ther mind, also went to pic some parts up from a bloke and said he'd reconised it from some articles's on the p1 prototype. (well the number plate at least)
Last edited by chris-RB5; 02 October 2009 at 09:20 PM.
02 October 2009, 11:13 PM
#68
Turbovin to Tony
"Maybe there are some language issues because I'm from Sweden but I still don't agree with you and I would say it's the exact opposite.
Sounds to me like you have mixed up understeer and oversteer".
No languages issues here, you're completely right Turbovin.
Fully open i.e green 65R/35F, makes the car oversteer i.e the back wheels slide out under power as Chris RB5 says, whereas fully locked, i.e all the way up the oranges to the other end = 50R/50F will give you understeer i.e. the car goes straight on when you turn the wheel into a corner, and horrible clonking noises at low speed, as you say.
I seem to remember Tony having these issues before with the definition of over and understeer.
"Maybe there are some language issues because I'm from Sweden but I still don't agree with you and I would say it's the exact opposite.
Sounds to me like you have mixed up understeer and oversteer".
No languages issues here, you're completely right Turbovin.
Fully open i.e green 65R/35F, makes the car oversteer i.e the back wheels slide out under power as Chris RB5 says, whereas fully locked, i.e all the way up the oranges to the other end = 50R/50F will give you understeer i.e. the car goes straight on when you turn the wheel into a corner, and horrible clonking noises at low speed, as you say.
I seem to remember Tony having these issues before with the definition of over and understeer.
03 October 2009, 07:38 AM
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Turbovin to Tony
"Maybe there are some language issues because I'm from Sweden but I still don't agree with you and I would say it's the exact opposite.
Sounds to me like you have mixed up understeer and oversteer".
No languages issues here, you're completely right Turbovin.
Fully open i.e green 65R/35F, makes the car oversteer i.e the back wheels slide out under power as Chris RB5 says, whereas fully locked, i.e all the way up the oranges to the other end = 50R/50F will give you understeer i.e. the car goes straight on when you turn the wheel into a corner, and horrible clonking noises at low speed, as you say.
I seem to remember Tony having these issues before with the definition of over and understeer.
"Maybe there are some language issues because I'm from Sweden but I still don't agree with you and I would say it's the exact opposite.
Sounds to me like you have mixed up understeer and oversteer".
No languages issues here, you're completely right Turbovin.
Fully open i.e green 65R/35F, makes the car oversteer i.e the back wheels slide out under power as Chris RB5 says, whereas fully locked, i.e all the way up the oranges to the other end = 50R/50F will give you understeer i.e. the car goes straight on when you turn the wheel into a corner, and horrible clonking noises at low speed, as you say.
I seem to remember Tony having these issues before with the definition of over and understeer.
Nope, I have it correct
The car will understeer when the diff is all the way to the rear (green), this changes in the wet of course when the car will be far more cerseptable (sp) to oversteer due to more power to the rear, but in the dry the front wheels will be pushed out wide (understeer) where as in the wet and pushing it the car will oversteer (rear steps out, front wheels turn in more to the corner than you have steered).
Both the dccd equipped cars I have owned will understeer when pushed hard on the bottom green in the dry, if your car oversteers all the time then I would seriously consider looking at your choice of tyre
Tony
PS, all these drifters using dccd will "flick" the car to get the tail out as then the power will "drift" the car with the greater power to the rear (similar to driving in the wet).
And dont mistake oversteer with "lift off" oversteer
Last edited by TonyBurns; 03 October 2009 at 07:46 AM.
03 October 2009, 07:45 AM
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The low speed clonking really only happens if the diff isnt open, then thats the difference between the turning circle of the inner wheel(s) to the outer wheel(s) hence the name "differential".
Tony
Tony
03 October 2009, 08:05 AM
#72
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Right, I can see people thinking Im wrong here because a scoob will understeer on a roundabout, well here is where im going to prove to you that subaru's (as with a vast majority of cars) naturally understeer (ie the nose goes wide).
With the DCCD open (ie all the way back on the last green) the car will NATURALLY understeer.
Here is an example of a dccd equipped car understeering naturally.
Car goes into a left hand corner at slightly more speed than it should, corner is a long sweeping bend and car has a couple of lanes to play with (or an airfield) if you keep the power on, the nose will go wide (car going into a left hand corner with power applied, nose will push to the right so you have to ADD more steering to the left, ie understeer).
Roundabout (this is where people get confused).
Car hits the roundabout with the diff open all the way back (hence why you wind it up forward), you then go left then right changing the balance of the car, IF you lift off here, then you can insight "LIFT OFF" oversteer, this is due to either being too agressive in your driving style or lack of grip due to surface or tyre choice/pressure.
This is not the NATURAL way the car handles as they are designed to understeer, this is induced.
Hope that helps
Tony
With the DCCD open (ie all the way back on the last green) the car will NATURALLY understeer.
Here is an example of a dccd equipped car understeering naturally.
Car goes into a left hand corner at slightly more speed than it should, corner is a long sweeping bend and car has a couple of lanes to play with (or an airfield) if you keep the power on, the nose will go wide (car going into a left hand corner with power applied, nose will push to the right so you have to ADD more steering to the left, ie understeer).
Roundabout (this is where people get confused).
Car hits the roundabout with the diff open all the way back (hence why you wind it up forward), you then go left then right changing the balance of the car, IF you lift off here, then you can insight "LIFT OFF" oversteer, this is due to either being too agressive in your driving style or lack of grip due to surface or tyre choice/pressure.
This is not the NATURAL way the car handles as they are designed to understeer, this is induced.
Hope that helps
Tony
03 October 2009, 08:13 AM
#73
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To add my non-educated 2 pence, I thought it was a natural trait of a scoob to understeer on the limit, gives you that little warning to back off a bit!
03 October 2009, 10:04 AM
#74
it's actually the plates binding then releasing inside the locked diff due to the differential in wheel speeds
03 October 2009, 10:11 AM
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Hence it "winds up" the diff.
This probably explains it better than either of us can, first 3 lines
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=154
Tony
Last edited by TonyBurns; 03 October 2009 at 10:16 AM.
03 October 2009, 11:27 AM
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I've had a P1 from new and love it - it's now a 'keeper' which lives in the garage for when I need a toy. I wasn't happy with it at first - as people have said, it understeers on the std 17" wheels, and the brakes (front and back) are dreadful. 18" wheels, 6 pots fronts (Ap Racing), 4 pots rears soon sorted that and it's a dream to drive at the limit. Oh, and get it mapped for UK fuel (I've got mine mapped to Optimax, having blown an engine and learnt the hard way). Racing fuel pump etc etc - actually, think I'll go for a drive now....
03 October 2009, 12:43 PM
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Here you go mate. A thread on my P1. Not quite 600 though.
https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...p1-600bhp.html
Over 100 pages now, so when you get a spare month
Last edited by SkullFudge; 03 October 2009 at 12:49 PM.
03 October 2009, 01:25 PM
#80
Haha maybe we should start a poll among Type R/RA owners to see if their cars are understeered or oversteered.
I'd still say that your wrong and if a DCCD equipped classic understeers there must be something wrong with the plated rear LSD causing the inner rear wheel to spin and therefore not kicking out the rear end the way it should.
PS: how would you explain this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsqiUkutlCk
There's no scandinavian flick, just pure power oversteer thanks to most of the power being sent to the rear wheels.
I'd still say that your wrong and if a DCCD equipped classic understeers there must be something wrong with the plated rear LSD causing the inner rear wheel to spin and therefore not kicking out the rear end the way it should.
PS: how would you explain this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsqiUkutlCk
There's no scandinavian flick, just pure power oversteer thanks to most of the power being sent to the rear wheels.
Last edited by Turbovin; 03 October 2009 at 01:28 PM.
03 October 2009, 01:25 PM
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by the way it's not a slanging match, both cars are great
03 October 2009, 01:40 PM
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Haha maybe we should start a poll among Type R/RA owners to see if their cars are understeered or oversteered.
I'd still say that your wrong and if a DCCD equipped classic understeers there must be something wrong with the plated rear LSD causing the inner rear wheel to spin and therefore not kicking out the rear end the way it should.
PS: how would you explain this clip? YouTube - Subaru Impreza drift
There's no scandinavian flick, just pure power oversteer thanks to most of the power being sent to the rear wheels.
I'd still say that your wrong and if a DCCD equipped classic understeers there must be something wrong with the plated rear LSD causing the inner rear wheel to spin and therefore not kicking out the rear end the way it should.
PS: how would you explain this clip? YouTube - Subaru Impreza drift
There's no scandinavian flick, just pure power oversteer thanks to most of the power being sent to the rear wheels.
but classics AND newage DCCD equipped cars are designed to understeer, been there, seen it and done it (in both the type R and my old Spec C)Tony
PS, i can get a fwd car to do exactly the same on a wet roundabout and that has no power to the rear
03 October 2009, 01:44 PM
#83
Oh well don't think we'll get this particular discussion any further
Maybe my car is such a different beast compared to a stock Type R with the coilovers and more camber in the front.
But locking the diff sure isn't going to help to reduce the understeer anyway.
Maybe my car is such a different beast compared to a stock Type R with the coilovers and more camber in the front.
But locking the diff sure isn't going to help to reduce the understeer anyway.
Last edited by Turbovin; 03 October 2009 at 01:45 PM.
03 October 2009, 01:47 PM
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This one also gives you a bit of a clue of how you can induce oversteer though personally I wouldnt do it in any car without DCCD fitted as it will knacker your diff 
YouTube - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Drift Show - AutoSpeed.ro
Tony
though personally I wouldnt do it in any car without DCCD fitted as it will knacker your diff YouTube - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Drift Show - AutoSpeed.ro
Tony
03 October 2009, 01:49 PM
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) or high oranges will acutally make the car much more neutral, the use of the handbrake will lock the rear wheels causing oversteer (and releasing the centre diff at the same time so you dont knacker anything )Tony
03 October 2009, 01:53 PM
#86
Yes I do know the functionality of the DCCD I would say that about 30-40% is optimal on a autocross track, atleast for my car. With a fully open diff it will just be too twitchy in the rear end. Any more lock than that just causes the front end to plow too much in the tight turns.
But on the road in normal dry conditions I always use it fully open. But you will have to consider that our roads in Sweden are probably of better quality. I know how the car can feel a bit unstable on bumpy roads so perhaps more need to lock up the diff in the UK.
I would say that about 30-40% is optimal on a autocross track, atleast for my car. With a fully open diff it will just be too twitchy in the rear end. Any more lock than that just causes the front end to plow too much in the tight turns.But on the road in normal dry conditions I always use it fully open. But you will have to consider that our roads in Sweden are probably of better quality. I know how the car can feel a bit unstable on bumpy roads so perhaps more need to lock up the diff in the UK.
Last edited by Turbovin; 03 October 2009 at 01:55 PM.
03 October 2009, 04:04 PM
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Turbovin,
My Type R (the one on the first page of this thread) is now living in Sweden (
) are there many over there now? I seem to remember the guy that bought it saying they were quite rare (this was about 3 years ago).
If it came back up for sale, I would def consider buying it back.
With regards to the under/over steer debate, I've got to say that mine very rarely understeered at all. The only time it did it, was on a damp roundabout but it would only do it momentarily before the back would start to come round. Mine was very very stiff though, it had Apexi N1 Type Pro coilovers, front and rear upper and lower strutbraces, an STi rollcage, J's Inner Wing Tower Bars, uprated anti roll bars plus some other uprated components. On damp bumpy roads, it could be quite a handful at times
My Type R (the one on the first page of this thread) is now living in Sweden (
) are there many over there now? I seem to remember the guy that bought it saying they were quite rare (this was about 3 years ago).If it came back up for sale, I would def consider buying it back.
With regards to the under/over steer debate, I've got to say that mine very rarely understeered at all. The only time it did it, was on a damp roundabout but it would only do it momentarily before the back would start to come round. Mine was very very stiff though, it had Apexi N1 Type Pro coilovers, front and rear upper and lower strutbraces, an STi rollcage, J's Inner Wing Tower Bars, uprated anti roll bars plus some other uprated components. On damp bumpy roads, it could be quite a handful at times
03 October 2009, 04:18 PM
#90
Turbovin,
My Type R (the one on the first page of this thread) is now living in Sweden () are there many over there now? I seem to remember the guy that bought it saying they were quite rare (this was about 3 years ago).
If it came back up for sale, I would def consider buying it back.
My Type R (the one on the first page of this thread) is now living in Sweden (
) are there many over there now? I seem to remember the guy that bought it saying they were quite rare (this was about 3 years ago).If it came back up for sale, I would def consider buying it back.
That car was actually for sale this summer but in the end the owner decided to keep it anyway. But he was asking about 14000 GBP so these cars are a bit expensive when they are registered and ready to drive in Sweden. At least the good ones
In case you missed my link to the car in the first page
http://www.garaget.org/?car=122930 In swedish but you can see the pics anyway
Last edited by Turbovin; 03 October 2009 at 04:24 PM.