Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Hey JP, im not saying all is bad about Pennine, as i havent had any direct dealings with Chy othet than him having a quick look at my poorly car, but when one reads so many upet people you can not help think the worse, and then you draw your own conclusions right? Ive seen your WR1 and the clinical engine build your having done in the workshop. However unlike you im not having a 20k build, Im after a replacement bottom end or Engine replacement to get me back on the road as i will not be competing in the car this year. Good luck with your, I just hope you are not one of the unfotunate ones. Rob

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Sounds a good idea. Will the meet be Posted?

Rob

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

chy,
i didnt intend to go public about all of my issues but the way you spoke to me on friday was horrible.
i had my gearbox taken out today from andy at scoobyteknix (my sponser )
and the release bearing has not been fitted correctly by the junior that fitted it on my £35000 car, i find this to be absolutely disrespectfull,
would any of you other guys reading this take your 35k car to have the engine fitted by an apprentice bearing in mind my car has quite a lot of custom parts on it, when running over 600hp everything has to be 110% as i told chy to make sure it was 110%,
anyway just to ad insult to injury, i am now out of pocket 3 x £250 for mapping sesions not fullfilled, 5 days off work transporting engine back and too chys, gearbox removal and suplly and fit new release bearing and refit gearbox, £200 for oil for every different engine, £30 for coolant for every different engine, £1000 for missed events of timeattack,

as for people ringing me to ask my side of the story (i personally think i have told you my side of the story on here), you are all very welcome all chy is trying to do there is quieten it down on the forum and turn it to phone calls, which people wont hear coward.

i think that it is about time that people no what two bit garage that you are taking your car or engine too,

final point, when i asked for my engine on sept 4th 2008 i said i wanted to run 650hp in timeattack, he obviosly laughed when i put the phone down,
the last time i took the engine back to him he said to me that it is a learning curve for him aswel at this level.....
i wish someone would pay me a big lump of cash to be there learning curve

regards

JP4

iTrader: (12)

Hi Rob -

The points that both Banny and I have made is our own personal opinions (as well as of Fai17 and Damien Bradley) of what we think of Chy & Pennine Subaru. Sadly I cannot comment on what has happened to the claims made by Arthur and Andy.

As mentioned by Banny above, the Pennine builds will be getting together in York (Elvington more than likely) for test runs....although it is by invite only basis, I would be happy for you to come along and take the "Chy Challenge". You may also get an opportunity to meet Pat Herborne, one of the best mappers in the country and co-owner of the Solaris Ecu.

Trust me one thing about any upgrades or builds is nothing is ever straight forward...been there and done it....lots of patience required is what I have learnt!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Having used Pennine Subaru for some work late last year, I have absolutely no problem recommending Chy to anyone. The work was of high quality and all the staff including Chy were honest, diligent and very knowledgeable.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

I too am undergoing a build with Pennine Subaru (Chy & team), and anyone who has seen the WR1 at Pennine belongs to me, and I am happy it is in good hands.

jp4,when you say you are happy it is in good hands,as i recall the last time i was down at chys your car was sat there with the front splitter smashed off,now either chy has brainwashed you into thinking this is not true or you just dont care how people treet your car.i'm sorry but this is just no way to treet a customers car now is it.also i wouldn't be so optamistic about the end result of your build until you have tried and tested it and everthing is ok.

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

totally agree
all you people who have given him your CASH will obviosly think the sun shines out of his behind, just like i did, he brainwashed me too, he has been telling people that he can give them wills rings on a 2.5 cdb, and when i put a reply to a post on here saying that wills rings arnt avalable for a 2.5, within 10 mins chy phoned me asking me to change the post because it is causing him problems, he had told 2 customers that they are getting wills rings on a 2.5, so i said well you have caused your own problems mate lying because wills rings arnt avalable, he said can you just try and do something so i put a little blag on a post saying that they may do wills rings now as i was looking for them a year ago, because at that time he had my engine for the 4th time
i felt as bad as him by doing this.

i think if chy had been honest to me from day 1 then i wouldnt be typing this right now
i think chy is actually a nice bloke, however the lies and how he insults your intelligence is not acceptable and i feel that his knowledge has hit a brick wall at 500-550

David_Wallis

Banny, I might be wrong but as far as I can remember Steven Built Steve's long engine.

As for Chy Building Marks car, He may have previously, but this year isnt the same spec, I'm not allowed to say anything though so take a look at totb.

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

Andy H ....Sorry to hear about your issues.

From my own experience i have no issues with Chy.

Builds can't be rushed and i know of a few build that was promised a xx weeks turn around but never makes the dead line.These builds are from other engine builders.So putting a time scale on a build is just putting pressure on the builder and engine installer.

I have not meet any of yous guy so i can comment on what has happened to yous but what i will say is that every garage including some of the top dogs has all had issues with peoples cars/builds and has gone wrong.If the whole truth has been made public there will be no one in buisness as we are all to scared to go near them.

Its a learning curve for both the modders and builders alike and sometimes things do go pear shaped.I accept that but of course don't like it as much as the guy next to me.Modding is never straight forward and def not for the faint hearted.Just ask Shaunee.

I'm currently have a build on the go.The engine has been supplied to me as a long engine and i'm having other things done.And i have Chy's 100% back up if things doesn't work out.

Over and out

Peter

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

Chy rebuilts his short block and Steven fitted the heads on and everything else around it.

Big Pete

At the risk of repeating myself, Chy & team have looked after our car for over two years now and we've never had a problem with anything.

We are in a different league to many of you financially as ours is a standard road only car. But all I can say is that all of the lads at Peninne Subaru have always been excellent both on a professional and personal basis.

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

yes peter some point seem to be correct

however, i didnt give chy a deadline, he told me 4 weeks and it ended up 4 months.

stevebt running 550, i said his knowledge hit a brick wall at 500-550, i rest my case, find me a few at 650! good luck

also chy gave me his 100% backing which is great, but my engine has been spit apart now 4 times in 6 months, i just think that me and chy have come to our wits end regarding my engine,

as for it being a learning curve for modders and builders, i disagree, when chy did his sales pitch on me he said that it is tried and tested at the level i want to be at, then when he realised i WAS realy aiming for that power, he then tells me its a learning curve,

if its a learning curve then surely a was testing for him, so why have i had to pay a big lump of cash to do research for him

coz as we all clearly no, a few big names as mentioned above are going elsewhere

JP4

iTrader: (12)

David -
I could probably guess what Mark's spec is but it is not for me to say. I am sure Mark would agree with me on this.

Arthur/Andy -
I am aware of my spoiler as I have spoken to Chy and this is all in hand. Thank you for pointing out the brainwashing bit, but trust me I am intelligent enough to take care of myself on what I am told.

As Fai has put it eloquently, big builds do not come quickly at all - this can been easily seen on some of the threads under the "Projects" section. I recall when I wanted to take mine to 400lbs of torque - just ask Pat Herborne what that involved!

I have also spoken to Mark at Lateral Performance this morning to get some feedback and clarity, and I think you both will find he disagrees with quite a lot of your statements made.

I would urge both of you to calm down and think through long and hard before making bold claims/statements which make not be factual, as you could find yourselves being embarassed in the long run (thats a friendly tip ). I am positive that if you both were a little humble then Chy, given his kind nature may even still be prepared to help you both out. Getting mad is not going to help you guys out.

Andy - I would also urge you to do a bit of research by asking the likes of RCM, Zen, Scoobyclinic, Enginetuner on how many genuine 600+ BHP (let alone 650+) cars there are out there. And what they believe the longevity of these are likely to be and the process and time taken to build these kind of engines from a 4 cylinder block.

BigPete - Very humble of you to speak up . I would disregard whether you are in the same league. This does not matter - you are a customer of Chy and that's whats important regardless of what you spend.


JP

PS:

Banny -Mark at Lateral Performance is hoping to join the Pennine builds meet in Aug which is fantastic news.

pat

You'll need more than luck, you'll need a miracle, because a reliable 650BHP Subaru engine presently does not exist. Period. Everyone who has ever tried has failed. Something always breaks / bends / distorts etc. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying....

At that level you're just buying time. You'll get a certain amount of running time before it's had it. This decreases exponentially with power. At the extreme end of that range you end up with an engine that lasts for less than five seconds. It may have propelled you to 340MPH in about 4.3 seconds of its short life, but once it has done that, it has had it. This is the cost of motorsport. Top teams will turn up to an event with seven engines, one per pass.... That's all very good when Snap On are signing the cheques for the parts you're using

The current ceiling for reliability is in the region of 550BHP for Subaru engines. At that there are examples that have done two seasons of Time Attack, many rounds of LMA, many track days etc and have never been pulled for any reason.

Of course time also depends on use. If you use it mainly on the road and only occasionally use the full potential you can look forward to a long service life even at 650. If you enter LMA then you're on the power pretty much continuously for at least 1 hour per event... you'll be lucky to go home with it still running if it was up at 650.

As for paying for research, that is not correct. You're paying for someone to build you the best engine that is possible within the realms of current materials and knowledge, in the hope that it will be enough. But it is just a hope. Like I said, noone has ever succeeded, so there is no proven recipe to follow. You cannot buy a proven 650BHP Subaru engine because it doesn't exist. YET. That doesn't mean that it won't in the future. Eventually someone might come up with a configuration that's robust enough to last a decent amount of time. But still make no mistake, the lifespan will only increase, not become "indefinite". It will still eventually wear out, but wearing out is not the same as breaking!

Cheers,

Pat.

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

Andy

I don't know of any 650bhp cars apart from genuine race cars such as RCM Gobbstopper,Zen Performance,Andy Forrest Drag car,Lateral Perfomance and your own car.

Do you know how many engines these guys have went through?

BTW...i'm not have a dig at anyone here as i'm just stating that its not all plain straight forward.

DaveSTI350

Sorry to here your car is ill again... Hope you get it sorted mate..
If i was you i'd have a look.... At PowerStation .. Good luck with it

Dave

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

[QUOTE=JP4;8830177]David -
I could probably guess what Mark's spec is but it is not for me to say. I am sure Mark would agree with me on this.

I would urge both of you to calm down and think through long and hard before making bold claims/statements which make not be factual, as you could find yourselves being embarassed in the long run (thats a friendly tip ). I am positive that if you both were a little humble then Chy, given his kind nature may even still be prepared to help you both out. Getting mad is not going to help you guys out.

JP

firstly i dont need to calm down as i have not got mad about it in the first place,the only time i ever lost my temper throughout the full year i was having trouble was when my engine was being built back up for the third time and i rang chy to see how much longer it was going to take.he blatently told me that he had more important customers to deal with than me and it would get done when he had time,then yes i lost my temper and if i hadnt have been at work that day i would have gone down there and stuffed the engine right up his ***.apart from that day i have been very patient with chy and give him more than enough time to sort the problems out.by the way you speak of chy you obviously have been taken in by the bollocks that comes from his mouth,also i really dont think i would want to take my car back down there even if he said he would sort it out for me for nothing.i would rather pay for the engine to be built up by someone else,cos if chy carnt get things right after 3 trys then i dont want it sat in his garage for another 3 months for me to take it away and it **** up again.i never meant for all this to become a slagging match between chy,andy and me,i mearly posted on my local site to let my friends know that it had gone again the progress that will be taking place.i am glad though that andy has posted up his problems as its very similar to what i have been through and people need to know what chy is like and that he isnt the nicey nicey person that some people think he is,more like jekyl an hyde if you ask me.

JP4

iTrader: (12)

I think we ought to be very gratful that Pat has shared some of his knowledge and experience with us as he is not a big poster on here.

As Pat says if a car is mostly used for road driving and the odd occassion blip then the longevity will be much more than a car used mainly for track and drag days. I can say this from first experience on how Pat managed to get 422bhp / 400lbs of torque (hitting at 4,200rpm) on my standard WR1 block, and I had no problems with it even after 13k miles - and yes I did manage to get quite a few blips out of it! I must also admit that Scoobyclinic did put together a very good install to support the power.

The important thing one must also consider is the mapping. Pat mapped my car and as a mapper I believe he is risk adverse. Chy also recommends his engines to be run in properly, and then mapped by Pat who he is doing mine in the next 2/3 weeks.

BigArf - am only trying to help you.

Banny -
You are correct - seeing that I live in South London and need a car for work, Chy kindly lent me his own Forrester as a courtesy car which just shows how considerate he is. The only thing wrong with it was I didn't really like one of his CDs!! .....especially when one of the first songs started of "I don't like you anymore..." (I recorded this and sent it to Mark at Lateral!! pmsl!)

The fuel rails are a Chy special I have no idea what he will be doing in terms of blinging but he did send me some pics last night (the guys is working on a sat!!) which I was completely bowled over with! Your pics looks nice....its certainly coming together huh?

Jag

dbrad

iTrader: (26)

Well then it has been getting a little heated in here! I have just run in my 2.5cdb which Chy built for me, it will be on the dyno at surrey rolling road at the end of August running an MD321V. Chy was recommended to me by both Simon (JGM) and Mark at Lateral over a year ago. I recieved a very professional service at a bargain price. When looking around for an engine builder I took many things into account inc price, reputation, technical ability, location etc etc. Pennine Subaru are quite a distance from me but having talked to many independent subaru enthusiasts I made the decision to go with Chy. I can not fault the service so far and I am confident that my engine will produce the power levels I am looking for and be reliable.

Damien

dunx

iTrader: (3)

As an outsider looking in....

Maybe Chy needs to provide a closed door solution, where he and Pat do the engine with an acceptable level of supporting mods, then map it, and finally allow collection of the finished article. Based on the assumption that Pat's experience with Chy's motors would put him first in the queue for mapping them.

IMHO

dunx

P.S. I do acknowledge that running-in may be an issue. Engine dynamometer ?

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

[QUOTE=banny sti;8830322]Who was the car mapped by on each occasion?

Banny[/QUOTE

the first time it was mapped by chy himself,i think his own words when he came back were,it pulls loads better now and 5th gear is the best.but as soon as he handed over the car and i got on my way home the first instance i had to put my foot down it got to around 4500 rpm and boost was cutting down to 1bar.now any mapper that doesnt notice this is either blind or doesnt now what he is doing.i got home and diagnosed the problem being the silicone inlet pipe supplied by lateral was sucking shut when on boost.so i fixed that then chy said he would have another go at mapping it,but when he told me to come down again he pissed on to france.anyway i took it to the clinic and put it on the rollers,the graph was the worse i had ever seen it gave a big kick up the *** till just over 4500rpm then fell away to nothing.so when chy finally came back he had another go.he made the power a little smoother but it was thowing the engine management light on,detting badly top end and when in 5th and 6th gear it was surging like a steam train.i took it to the clinic again and even pat said it was detting,but he set the boost for each gear with my boost controler which cured the surging.so after 2 goes at mapping it i decided to go somewere else.i rang jgm but as he was too busy he gave me andrew carrs number.andrew came down and mapped the car which i must say ran loads smoother but as the engine was breathing so bad couldnt make the power it should.that was when i took it in for the engine to be rebuilt.andrew has mapped it ever since and i have been happy with the mapping every time,infact after the third build was run in and mapped by andrew i took the car to rs tuning in leeds for a dyno run and the lad there commented how good the car was set up for a road mapped car.

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

pat;
a do agree with some things that you have posted, however i think that you all think that i was expecting my engine to do 100,000 miles, this is not true
i was clearly just stating what chy said to me to get my money (lying ) he said it was tryed and tested at the level of power i wanted, i said i would be happy having a build each year, i did expect it to do at least 1 timeattack event, it has not even done that yet,

jp4;
you are saying that mark aigin dissagrees with the statements we both have put,
what the hell has it got to do with him!
we all know that his engines go to teg and pete whitfield now to get built, make your own mind up why that has happened
fia17;
how can you honestlly give your judgement, when your engine isnt even running yet!
jp4;
how can you honestly give your judgement, when your engine isnt even running yet!

banny sti:
how can you say he is building a 600+ engine for you when you have never had over 600, so how do you expect yours to hold together.

chy obviously is cappable of building an engine, i just think he should be honest with customers regarding max power to be put through the engine i was just lied to from day 1 regarding my engine capabilities, i can live with it now, and i put it all down to a bad experience

JAKbauer24

PAT did you mean this one



or this one





our number is 01246 590807

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

You sure about Simon's car James?

Check your dates

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Banny, i know you well enough to know that you will not take offence when i say, please do NOT infer that Chy has built the Lateral car, because the Lateral car is no longer the car people knew, but a completely different one that will hopefully be seen on Sunday at TOTB.

I personally have not given up virtually every spare hour of my life for the last 3 months building this car, for someone to infer that a n other has built it. Myself and some very good friends have done so, in my shed, and i hope the result speaks for itself!

I very much doubt that Chy would actually infer that himself, and it may well be me just misinterpreting words, but i would rather make it abundantly clear, than ambiguous!

Mark wanted Chy to do the machine work on the current block, together with the porting of the heads. Chy didnt have time, so Mark had TEG do the machining of the block, install the crank and bearings. He then had Pete Whitfield machine the heads, again because Chy didnt have time. Then between Paul Blamire of Zen and I, we have reshimed the heads accordingly. Everything else to do with that engine has been done by ME and my great friends, some of whom i now owe massive favours to!

Steven

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Andy, i doubt any tuner in the country would hand on heart say that they can build you a 650+ car that will comfortably withstand a seasons worth of abuse hassle free (I appreciate you haven't had a fraction of a season hassle free), without insisting that they inspect the car periodically. I doubt even RCMS would do it!

As Pat infers, beyond the realms of 550, is a whole new ball game. One bad det at 350 and you may be okay, one bad det at 550 and if you are lucky, all you have to do is swap the headgaskets! it's as fickle as that.

Arthur, have a look at Duncan Grahams thread on 22b.

Steven

JAKbauer24

yes mate been in just two years.

I took my GF out on our first date a few days after the TOTB, 2 years ago in that car. If you remember he used my own car in the totb because his had problems, which we sorted and it was mapped just before august the first because it was a toss up between taking my missis out on our second date in that if it needed more miles on or mine if his was ready which it was.

so pretty sure about it

JAKbauer24

100 percent agree with that statement.

we have tried and 650bhp we know can be done easily but maintained it is not

RCM in fact subaru/prodrive wrc strip the car to a bare shell after every event including the engine so

we have proved 550 is ok but no more yet!!!!

cheers JB

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

100% Davaid, Chy put my new rods in and checked the block over as it had been used for a good few thousand miles at 500bhp then Steven Darley did everything else. Steven has been working on my car and the Lateral car for a lot of years now

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

steven;
i think you and pat are totally missing the point here.
i added my post on this thread to tell people about the very poor service that i have had over the past year with chy, NOT reliabillity issues on 650hp engines
as i have said before, i didnt expect the engine to do 100,000 miles however i did expect it to make it off the dyno, and before you ask, it has never detted, it was wrong gasket fitted originally.
since i have picked my car up from chy(when he did the head gaskets) these are the school boy errors i have found on the car and bear in mind this is when he said that it would be 110% when i get it back, and it has made it so i probebly will not be able to attend totb.

1, front bumper held on with 6 bolts all finger tight
2, no coolant in car at all
3, 4.5 litre of oil in car when the sump holds 6.5
4, all bolts in bellhousing loose
5, turbo bracket loose
6, big oil leak from oil feed banjo on head
7, oil leak from oil return pipe
8, lambda sensor not working
9, cam sensor loose
10, release bearing not located in fork

now i would say that its a good job that i dont trust his workmanship because if i did trust him 110% then i wouldnt of checked all these and i would have a severly damaged engine by now, i think that mother terissa would of lost there rag by now.
i have put up with a lot of s--t bodge up work off chy, and he hasnt phoned me once to appologise