Help !!! Killed the Scoob !
21 July 2010, 01:44 PM
#511
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Costa Del Glasgow
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to have a look at a '2000' registered JDM Bugeye STi today (was visiting the in-laws and it was close by)
Seemed fine mechanically, needed some cosmetics (parking dents, chips and scratches)
Current owner for six years, says he would take £4,500 as it is.
If I upgrade the engine in the current car, I will be spending a fair proportion of that anyway !
Better basis for me to carry on tuning ?
Carry On Tuning, is Kenneth Williams in that one ?
I digress...........
I can swap some of the upgrades from my WRX and put my own car back to near standard to sell it (once I fit a replacement engine or bottom end)
I know it sounds daft but the colour is a big factor, I really prefer the blue / black of my current car though !
Cheap as chips I thought and all seems genuine with the seller and the car ?
Seemed fine mechanically, needed some cosmetics (parking dents, chips and scratches)
Current owner for six years, says he would take £4,500 as it is.
If I upgrade the engine in the current car, I will be spending a fair proportion of that anyway !
Better basis for me to carry on tuning ?
Carry On Tuning, is Kenneth Williams in that one ?
I digress...........
I can swap some of the upgrades from my WRX and put my own car back to near standard to sell it (once I fit a replacement engine or bottom end)
I know it sounds daft but the colour is a big factor, I really prefer the blue / black of my current car though !
Cheap as chips I thought and all seems genuine with the seller and the car ?
food for thought
All the best mate.
Nick
21 July 2010, 06:05 PM
#514
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Costa Del Glasgow
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as for repairs, I presume you'd just get that panel re-wrapped
23 July 2010, 10:42 PM
#518
Anyone else 'accidentally' buy things on ebay because they are cheap ?
There was a used bottom end for sale, I was just watching it to see how much it went for with no reserve.
I ended up winning it for £151 including delivery !
No idea why I bought it but I suppose I could always build it up into a spare standard engine with all the bits I have lying around !
There was a used bottom end for sale, I was just watching it to see how much it went for with no reserve.
I ended up winning it for £151 including delivery !
No idea why I bought it but I suppose I could always build it up into a spare standard engine with all the bits I have lying around !
23 July 2010, 10:58 PM
#519
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":, Ugh.
.....................,?........................... ...........................\,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:"........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`..... ..._/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.\`~,......"~.,....................`..... }............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|........... ...`=~-,
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\
................................`:,,.............. .............`\..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_\........ ..._,-%.......`\
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`
23 July 2010, 11:00 PM
#520
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: W-s-M
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ha, I did once a few years ago and ended up with a 205 GTI!!You've done well though at that price, what bottom end is it and what mileage has it done.
Sounds a good start though for a rebuild, I'm sure you got enough bits now
23 July 2010, 11:00 PM
#521
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: W-s-M
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ha, I did once a few years ago and ended up with a 205 GTI!!You've done well though at that price, what bottom end is it and what mileage has it done.
Sounds a good start though for a rebuild, I'm sure you got enough bits now
24 July 2010, 12:34 AM
#522
52k UK Version 5 ?
I now have (including the one in the car)
4 x open deck blocks with matching pistons and rods and the matching block bolts.
3 x end thrust cranks in need of regrind.
1 x 'as new' end thrust crank.
1 x 'unknown condition' end thrust crank in the latest block.
4 x sumps.
2 x std manifolds with TGV housings.
1 x pair of UK V4 heads (another ebay bargain, were supposed to be STi ones !)
2 x pairs of UK WRX heads (2002 ones on the car, 2003 ones in the garage)
3 x flywheels.
1 x spare set of TGV housings to do the mod.
1 x JDM STi manifold without the TGV's (just bought this for whatever build I do)
2 x sets of standard headers.
1 x set of 440 cc 'blue' injectors.
1 x TD04.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..................................... ..........
I think we may have 'a bit of a situation' developing here ?
I now have (including the one in the car)
4 x open deck blocks with matching pistons and rods and the matching block bolts.
3 x end thrust cranks in need of regrind.
1 x 'as new' end thrust crank.
1 x 'unknown condition' end thrust crank in the latest block.
4 x sumps.
2 x std manifolds with TGV housings.
1 x pair of UK V4 heads (another ebay bargain, were supposed to be STi ones !)
2 x pairs of UK WRX heads (2002 ones on the car, 2003 ones in the garage)
3 x flywheels.
1 x spare set of TGV housings to do the mod.
1 x JDM STi manifold without the TGV's (just bought this for whatever build I do)
2 x sets of standard headers.
1 x set of 440 cc 'blue' injectors.
1 x TD04.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..................................... ..........
I think we may have 'a bit of a situation' developing here ?
24 July 2010, 01:25 AM
#525
I might start a for sale thread for some of this stuff !
I don't know about the flywheels as only one of the three has been on my car !
Tim, I take your point about the crankshafts, I don't think I would get a regrind but someone on a budget might take a chance ?
Cost of a purchasing a scored crank and a regrind compared to £400-£500 for a new crank might be the only way someone can get the car back on the road if they don't have the funds, seems a shame to bin them !
I don't know about the flywheels as only one of the three has been on my car !
Tim, I take your point about the crankshafts, I don't think I would get a regrind but someone on a budget might take a chance ?
Cost of a purchasing a scored crank and a regrind compared to £400-£500 for a new crank might be the only way someone can get the car back on the road if they don't have the funds, seems a shame to bin them !
24 July 2010, 11:16 AM
#526
We all know that saving a few hundred quid on the bottom end is well worth it.
(sarcasm)For the love of Subaru JUST LISTEN TO YOUR SELF MAN!!!!!!!!!
Do it right once!
She cannae take it anae more Capt'n. She's gonne bloooow.
24 July 2010, 01:11 PM
#527
I didn't mean me !
The reason I have three needing a regrind is because I won't reuse them.
Someone must though because Subaru list different sized bearings in the engine rebuild manual !
I know it is because no one can guarantee to get rid of all the swarf from the regrinding process.
The reason I have three needing a regrind is because I won't reuse them.
Someone must though because Subaru list different sized bearings in the engine rebuild manual !
I know it is because no one can guarantee to get rid of all the swarf from the regrinding process.
25 July 2010, 01:12 AM
#532
In the past I was told 'you can't regrind them because they are heat treated'
When I asked why Subaru themselves list different sized bearings if this was the case, I was met with a puzzled silence !
I was then told 'ah well maybe they can be reground, but if you do you can't get the swarf out of the oilways'
I find this somewhat hard to believe ?
If the current 'state of the art' machine shop can't effectively remove some iron filings from a few holes in a crankshaft, what chance does the rest of your precision built motor stand ?
My personal view is that in the past, people may have suffered bottom end failure, rebuilt with reground crank but re-used the modine (due to cost or lack of knowledge) and then had the same thing happen.
At this point the regrind on the crank is blamed, especially if metal particles from the previous failure have 'escaped' from the re-used modine and are found when the engine is stripped.
Thus, the 'don't regrind the crank or the world will start spinning the other way' stories come about ?
Only a theory guys, please don't flame me !
I'm sure Harvey will be along shortly to give a more expert opinion.
When I asked why Subaru themselves list different sized bearings if this was the case, I was met with a puzzled silence !
I was then told 'ah well maybe they can be reground, but if you do you can't get the swarf out of the oilways'
I find this somewhat hard to believe ?
If the current 'state of the art' machine shop can't effectively remove some iron filings from a few holes in a crankshaft, what chance does the rest of your precision built motor stand ?
My personal view is that in the past, people may have suffered bottom end failure, rebuilt with reground crank but re-used the modine (due to cost or lack of knowledge) and then had the same thing happen.
At this point the regrind on the crank is blamed, especially if metal particles from the previous failure have 'escaped' from the re-used modine and are found when the engine is stripped.
Thus, the 'don't regrind the crank or the world will start spinning the other way' stories come about ?
Only a theory guys, please don't flame me !
I'm sure Harvey will be along shortly to give a more expert opinion.
25 July 2010, 01:30 AM
#533
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ECU Mapping - www.JollyGreenMonster.co.uk
Posts: 16,548
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
the crank is cross drilled and the part of the drilling that is not required.. or the end if you like is blocked with a ball bearing.. without removing that ball bearing you cannot completely clean the hole as there is a dead end.
A reground crank will probably last the 12months warrentee most subaru dealers give on a rebuild..
Subaru do other engines that don't have turbos attached to them or that are used to propel owners at high speeds and which don't suffer the same high oil temps, high revs as a result and therefore will run probably for the life of the rest of the engine on a reground crank except the odd small %age which will then be put down to the owners heavy right foot.
imho of course.
Simon
A reground crank will probably last the 12months warrentee most subaru dealers give on a rebuild..
Subaru do other engines that don't have turbos attached to them or that are used to propel owners at high speeds and which don't suffer the same high oil temps, high revs as a result and therefore will run probably for the life of the rest of the engine on a reground crank except the odd small %age which will then be put down to the owners heavy right foot.
imho of course.
Simon
25 July 2010, 02:10 AM
#534
Would cleaning liquid sprayed down the 'blind hole' under pressure not get rid of the swarf with the 'backwash' ?
Similar to syringing your ears !
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.................................. ....................
Ps, Simon you are an insomniac !
I have no plans to re-use the cranks, just wondered if they are worth anything to someone before disposing of them ?
Similar to syringing your ears !
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.................................. ....................
Ps, Simon you are an insomniac !
I have no plans to re-use the cranks, just wondered if they are worth anything to someone before disposing of them ?
25 July 2010, 08:07 AM
#535
Harvey - I'll put a pound on you not finding any respected Impreza engine builder who uses reground crankshafts. If you do lets have their names and we can all avoid.
25 July 2010, 10:47 AM
#536
If the crankshaft is given to a specialist engineering company that knows its business and has done numerous Subaru cranks without failure, you will have no problem. Finding or knowing who has the specialist ability and track record is the key to success.
Not all cranks can be reground and some that we think are suitable for regrinding are rejected after inspection.
Like many of you I thought Subaru cranks could not be reground, however, some years ago I bought an STi 3 Wagon from Liverpool and the engine was destroyed. When I took the replacement block to the machine shop I use all the time the owner asked to see the crank and subsequently phoned to tell me it could be recovered and the price with bearings was less than half the cost of a new crank at that time. I told him how sceptical I was and he replied that if the rebuilt engine suffered crank or bearing failures in the first 12 months he would supply me with a new crank shaft. I accepted his offer.
That was five years ago and on that car almost 50,000 miles. The car has a ground crank and standard STi pistons. It has been a test mule for work that we have done on intercoolers, headers, uppies and turbos. Currently it runs 422 bhp and 399 ft.lbs and I have lost count of how many times it has been mapped by Steve Simpson, Bob Rawle and Pat Herborn. Pat actually commented on how indestructable it was as has Steve Simpson and Bob Rawle commented that for what it is, it has always brought a smile to his face. The only engine issue throughout its life is that I currently have a cylinder head issue at high boost (1.7 bar) but that matters not because I have a replacement engine.
When I agreed to get this crank reground I was still a bit sceptical but our machine shop are very competant specialists who have been a great help to me and as a result of my good experience with this particular engine we then started getting cranks reground when appropriate and with the owner's acceptance. So far we have not had a single failure.
So here is another Scooby myth turned on its head and no matter how much hot air you wish to expend on this topic these are the facts and a number of our customers have been able to save a chunk of money to make unexpected rebuilds that much more affordable or have enabled us to build good engines at reduced cost.
Not all cranks can be reground and some that we think are suitable for regrinding are rejected after inspection.
Like many of you I thought Subaru cranks could not be reground, however, some years ago I bought an STi 3 Wagon from Liverpool and the engine was destroyed. When I took the replacement block to the machine shop I use all the time the owner asked to see the crank and subsequently phoned to tell me it could be recovered and the price with bearings was less than half the cost of a new crank at that time. I told him how sceptical I was and he replied that if the rebuilt engine suffered crank or bearing failures in the first 12 months he would supply me with a new crank shaft. I accepted his offer.
That was five years ago and on that car almost 50,000 miles. The car has a ground crank and standard STi pistons. It has been a test mule for work that we have done on intercoolers, headers, uppies and turbos. Currently it runs 422 bhp and 399 ft.lbs and I have lost count of how many times it has been mapped by Steve Simpson, Bob Rawle and Pat Herborn. Pat actually commented on how indestructable it was as has Steve Simpson and Bob Rawle commented that for what it is, it has always brought a smile to his face. The only engine issue throughout its life is that I currently have a cylinder head issue at high boost (1.7 bar) but that matters not because I have a replacement engine.
When I agreed to get this crank reground I was still a bit sceptical but our machine shop are very competant specialists who have been a great help to me and as a result of my good experience with this particular engine we then started getting cranks reground when appropriate and with the owner's acceptance. So far we have not had a single failure.
So here is another Scooby myth turned on its head and no matter how much hot air you wish to expend on this topic these are the facts and a number of our customers have been able to save a chunk of money to make unexpected rebuilds that much more affordable or have enabled us to build good engines at reduced cost.
Last edited by harvey; 25 July 2010 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Spelling
25 July 2010, 05:06 PM
#540
This latest short motor seems to have a different piston design to my others ?
The usual ones have 'HBR' on the top and a rectangular recess set into the top of the piston.
This one has 'HSB' on top of the pistons and 4 semi-circular grooves that would appear to match the profile of the valves.
Any idea what the difference is ?
The usual ones have 'HBR' on the top and a rectangular recess set into the top of the piston.
This one has 'HSB' on top of the pistons and 4 semi-circular grooves that would appear to match the profile of the valves.
Any idea what the difference is ?