Newage twin scroll turbo 650 bhp front turbo project
16 August 2009, 08:08 PM
#184
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i can do better than a graph for all you people that obviously dont believe this, you can come down to the rollers on my next visit and take your cameras with you,
just for your info, this car is not running your typical 35r = 59lbs per min
it is a modified t04z = 79lbs per min
for those of you that do acually no your turbos, then you will no that this is not unherd of, it is a 790hp turbo, this is a p trim therefore it will produce very good power at low boost,
i think you should do a bit of research first before quoting that someone is guesstimating
once again, come down and see it with your own eyes and bring your camera with you.
i will be in touch when its going on the rollers again
andy h
16 August 2009, 08:22 PM
#185
i think i get what your trying to say.
i can do better than a graph for all you people that obviously dont believe this, you can come down to the rollers on my next visit and take your cameras with you,
just for your info, this car is not running your typical 35r = 59lbs per min
it is a modified t04z = 79lbs per min
for those of you that do acually no your turbos, then you will no that this is not unherd of, it is a 790hp turbo, this is a p trim therefore it will produce very good power at low boost,
i think you should do a bit of research first before quoting that someone is guesstimating
once again, come down and see it with your own eyes and bring your camera with you.
i will be in touch when its going on the rollers again
andy h
i can do better than a graph for all you people that obviously dont believe this, you can come down to the rollers on my next visit and take your cameras with you,
just for your info, this car is not running your typical 35r = 59lbs per min
it is a modified t04z = 79lbs per min
for those of you that do acually no your turbos, then you will no that this is not unherd of, it is a 790hp turbo, this is a p trim therefore it will produce very good power at low boost,
i think you should do a bit of research first before quoting that someone is guesstimating
once again, come down and see it with your own eyes and bring your camera with you.
i will be in touch when its going on the rollers again
andy h
A tad over sensitive aren't you?
Steven knows an awful lot about the Impreza and I would suggest that what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing.
Please bear in mind he's been heavily involved with the most powerful scoobies in the UK/Europe and has recently been the main builder (with the help of friends who just happen to be other top names in the UK scooby tuning scene) of the New Lateral Car. To suggest he doesn't know anything about the turbo is akin to saying Schumacher knows **** all about driving.
His question was perfectly polite enough and didn't warrant that hand bag, rattle on floor reply.
Last edited by dazdavies; 17 August 2009 at 05:09 PM.
16 August 2009, 09:21 PM
#186
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A tad over sensitive aren't you?
Steven knows an awful lot about the Impreza and I would suggest that what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing.
Please bear in mind he's been heavily involved with the most powerful scoobies in the UK/Europe and has recently been the main builder (with the help of friends who just happen to be other top names in the UK scooby tuning scene) of the New Lateral Car (707 bhp). To suggest he doesn't know anything about the turbo is akin to saying Schumacher knows **** all about driving.
His question was perfectly polite enough and didn't warrant that hand bag, rattle on floor reply.
Steven knows an awful lot about the Impreza and I would suggest that what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing.
Please bear in mind he's been heavily involved with the most powerful scoobies in the UK/Europe and has recently been the main builder (with the help of friends who just happen to be other top names in the UK scooby tuning scene) of the New Lateral Car (707 bhp). To suggest he doesn't know anything about the turbo is akin to saying Schumacher knows **** all about driving.
His question was perfectly polite enough and didn't warrant that hand bag, rattle on floor reply.
anyway, i still believe he does not believe me so i have had a word with my mapper edmy and he said that he will scan all graphs at all boost levels when he has finished and he is happy with it.
i cant say fairer than that,then hopefuly this will be put to bed
16 August 2009, 09:38 PM
#188
i never mentioned subarus or imprezas, i quoted turbos
anyway, i still believe he does not believe me so i have had a word with my mapper edmy and he said that he will scan all graphs at all boost levels when he has finished and he is happy with it.
i cant say fairer than that,then hopefuly this will be put to bed
anyway, i still believe he does not believe me so i have had a word with my mapper edmy and he said that he will scan all graphs at all boost levels when he has finished and he is happy with it.
i cant say fairer than that,then hopefuly this will be put to bed
Fair play, but the tarmac dyno at SSO is the best place to put things like this to bed
16 August 2009, 09:50 PM
#190
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Andy, you clearly dont know enough about me yet 
. I aint questioning what you are saying. I f i was, i would have said you were talking out of your ****, pure and simple!
I wasnt asking so i could discount what you are saying, i was genuingly interested. As my "modified" GT35/42 (73lbpm) made 562 at 1.9 and 592 at 2.1bar. So your turbo is a hell of a jump on that, and i was merely intrested, as you are the first person i know of, publicly, that has run a TO4Z on a scoob.
Having sold my 35/42 a while ago, i am still looking for the next turbo. The one on the bananna is superb, but reading your figures, i may be making the wrong mind choice, and simply wanted to compare "plots".
The turbo on the bananna is a huge step up from the 35/42 i had, and i simply wanted to compare the two!
There are many turbos out there that are "ZZZ" bhp, but on a subaru they make "CCC" bhp
I dont think question was unreasonable, however you did, sorry!
. I aint questioning what you are saying. I f i was, i would have said you were talking out of your ****, pure and simple!I wasnt asking so i could discount what you are saying, i was genuingly interested. As my "modified" GT35/42 (73lbpm) made 562 at 1.9 and 592 at 2.1bar. So your turbo is a hell of a jump on that, and i was merely intrested, as you are the first person i know of, publicly, that has run a TO4Z on a scoob.
Having sold my 35/42 a while ago, i am still looking for the next turbo. The one on the bananna is superb, but reading your figures, i may be making the wrong mind choice, and simply wanted to compare "plots".
The turbo on the bananna is a huge step up from the 35/42 i had, and i simply wanted to compare the two!
There are many turbos out there that are "ZZZ" bhp, but on a subaru they make "CCC" bhp
I dont think question was unreasonable, however you did, sorry!
16 August 2009, 10:35 PM
#191
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Andy, you clearly dont know enough about me yet . I aint questioning what you are saying. I f i was, i would have said you were talking out of your ****, pure and simple!
I wasnt asking so i could discount what you are saying, i was genuingly interested. As my "modified" GT35/42 (73lbpm) made 562 at 1.9 and 592 at 2.1bar. So your turbo is a hell of a jump on that, and i was merely intrested, as you are the first person i know of, publicly, that has run a TO4Z on a scoob.
Having sold my 35/42 a while ago, i am still looking for the next turbo. The one on the bananna is superb, but reading your figures, i may be making the wrong mind choice, and simply wanted to compare "plots".
The turbo on the bananna is a huge step up from the 35/42 i had, and i simply wanted to compare the two!
There are many turbos out there that are "ZZZ" bhp, but on a subaru they make "CCC" bhp
I dont think question was unreasonable, however you did, sorry!
. I aint questioning what you are saying. I f i was, i would have said you were talking out of your ****, pure and simple!I wasnt asking so i could discount what you are saying, i was genuingly interested. As my "modified" GT35/42 (73lbpm) made 562 at 1.9 and 592 at 2.1bar. So your turbo is a hell of a jump on that, and i was merely intrested, as you are the first person i know of, publicly, that has run a TO4Z on a scoob.
Having sold my 35/42 a while ago, i am still looking for the next turbo. The one on the bananna is superb, but reading your figures, i may be making the wrong mind choice, and simply wanted to compare "plots".
The turbo on the bananna is a huge step up from the 35/42 i had, and i simply wanted to compare the two!
There are many turbos out there that are "ZZZ" bhp, but on a subaru they make "CCC" bhp
I dont think question was unreasonable, however you did, sorry!
i was only pi--ed off because when ever i put a post up on here to help other people in similar circumstances it all goes pete tong and escalates into a load of crap,
as i said before you are very welcome to come along to the dyno with me if you like to see the plots yourself or as i have said i will post the dyno plots at each boost level starting from wastegate preasure.
as for zzz and ccc you are very right on that but there are different types of turbos that work better than others with certain set ups, ie. mine was producing the big numbers two months ago but the graph was not so good as it made 638hp at 6k and then flat lined all the way to 7800rpm, so not ideal at all, since the change of exhaust cam set up the engine has realy come to life.
what i am trying to say is for you to compaire mine to the banana is like compairing chalk and cheese, i cant see what data you could get from this because if i showed you a graph from 2 months ago doing 560 at 1.6 and then i showed you the graph now at 1.6, you would say that it is a totally different engine and turbo and cam set up.
as i said thow i will post the graphs as soon as, and also i will post a graph from 2 months ago at same boost, you will be amazed at how different they are
andy h
17 August 2009, 07:35 AM
#194
hi peter
it has not made as much power yet, however edmy has ony taken it to 1.6 bar, on v power, he has got 582hp thow and 576lbsft but like i said before he has got me a 3100rpm power band which was very inportant for me,
edmy will be getting it back on the dyno this week sometime to finish off the track maps(1.6 bar and 1.8 bar ) and then if he has time he will be doing me a drag map for the shootout at 2.1 bar with 20% meth, he is quite confident that with the way the car is working at the moment, that he will get close to 700hp, but this is only to be used on a drag purpose, i will just have to wait and see.
andy h
it has not made as much power yet, however edmy has ony taken it to 1.6 bar, on v power, he has got 582hp thow and 576lbsft but like i said before he has got me a 3100rpm power band which was very inportant for me,
edmy will be getting it back on the dyno this week sometime to finish off the track maps(1.6 bar and 1.8 bar ) and then if he has time he will be doing me a drag map for the shootout at 2.1 bar with 20% meth, he is quite confident that with the way the car is working at the moment, that he will get close to 700hp, but this is only to be used on a drag purpose, i will just have to wait and see.
andy h
18 August 2009, 11:26 AM
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Does this mean that the figures have not been proved yet as you are waiting for it to be finished? Perhaps it would be a gd start to post up the graphs you do have to date so there are no guesses made.
18 August 2009, 07:57 PM
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no jag not at all
it means that i have only had 1 map at the moment at this spec of cam and we have found that there is still to much lift on the exhast cam btdc so another adjustment is to be made, the 1.6 bar figures i have posted have been achieved, but like i said my mapper will scan the graphs at all boost levels when he is happy with it. so you can compaire spool and peak power with the other types of turbos as mine is a one off. the main objective is to get my turbo to run in the efficiency window to enable egt to be better for track.
thanks andy h
it means that i have only had 1 map at the moment at this spec of cam and we have found that there is still to much lift on the exhast cam btdc so another adjustment is to be made, the 1.6 bar figures i have posted have been achieved, but like i said my mapper will scan the graphs at all boost levels when he is happy with it. so you can compaire spool and peak power with the other types of turbos as mine is a one off. the main objective is to get my turbo to run in the efficiency window to enable egt to be better for track.
thanks andy h
18 August 2009, 08:38 PM
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Andy,
People have been getting some very good results from the TO4Z's, and I know you haven't finished mapping yet, but can you just confirm a couple of things about your current results.
You've said that the 576ftlbs is higher than 5100rpm, and technically it can't be above 5300rpm, but this also must mean that your 581bhp must also be at circa 5300rpm ?
Does this mean that the bhp pretty much flat lines to 7100rpm ?
Mark.
18 August 2009, 09:48 PM
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if andy or pete have a problem with me interferrring with his thread or posting pics of his car
TUFF only joking hope you 2 dont mind .
http://www.timeattack.co.uk/forum/vi....php?f=9&t=656
TUFF only joking hope you 2 dont mind .
http://www.timeattack.co.uk/forum/vi....php?f=9&t=656
Last edited by shawy1976; 18 August 2009 at 09:51 PM.
18 August 2009, 09:49 PM
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Andy,
People have been getting some very good results from the TO4Z's, and I know you haven't finished mapping yet, but can you just confirm a couple of things about your current results.
You've said that the 576ftlbs is higher than 5100rpm, and technically it can't be above 5300rpm, but this also must mean that your 581bhp must also be at circa 5300rpm ?
Does this mean that the bhp pretty much flat lines to 7100rpm ?
Mark.
People have been getting some very good results from the TO4Z's, and I know you haven't finished mapping yet, but can you just confirm a couple of things about your current results.
You've said that the 576ftlbs is higher than 5100rpm, and technically it can't be above 5300rpm, but this also must mean that your 581bhp must also be at circa 5300rpm ?
Does this mean that the bhp pretty much flat lines to 7100rpm ?
Mark.
andy h
18 August 2009, 11:40 PM
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Andy,
Just looking at your VE, and it appears to be really high. Subaru engines generally use circa 1.5cfm /bhp on V Power, and down to circa 1.3cfm/bhp on better fuels. Certain conditions will see better VE, but normally at low boost.
Your VE is more like 1.03cfm/bhp, which is extremely high, and I was just wondering if you had a boost spike above 1.6bar around the peak torque ? Which would make more sense.
Mark.
Just looking at your VE, and it appears to be really high. Subaru engines generally use circa 1.5cfm /bhp on V Power, and down to circa 1.3cfm/bhp on better fuels. Certain conditions will see better VE, but normally at low boost.
Your VE is more like 1.03cfm/bhp, which is extremely high, and I was just wondering if you had a boost spike above 1.6bar around the peak torque ? Which would make more sense.
Mark.
19 August 2009, 09:10 AM
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no jag not at all
it means that i have only had 1 map at the moment at this spec of cam and we have found that there is still to much lift on the exhast cam btdc so another adjustment is to be made, the 1.6 bar figures i have posted have been achieved, but like i said my mapper will scan the graphs at all boost levels when he is happy with it. so you can compaire spool and peak power with the other types of turbos as mine is a one off. the main objective is to get my turbo to run in the efficiency window to enable egt to be better for track.
thanks andy h
it means that i have only had 1 map at the moment at this spec of cam and we have found that there is still to much lift on the exhast cam btdc so another adjustment is to be made, the 1.6 bar figures i have posted have been achieved, but like i said my mapper will scan the graphs at all boost levels when he is happy with it. so you can compaire spool and peak power with the other types of turbos as mine is a one off. the main objective is to get my turbo to run in the efficiency window to enable egt to be better for track.
thanks andy h
It's more tongue in cheek!
That said, I'm positive that the end results and times will vindicate my decision to put it up as sadly I haven't got time to put up a dedicated project thread. What the sig does not show is that big credit is due to both Mark at Lateral Performance (mastermind behind the build) and Pat Herborne for their vital contribution made to date
19 August 2009, 09:38 AM
#209
...It's more tongue in cheek! That said, I'm positive that the end results and times will vindicate my decision to put it up as sadly I haven't got time to put up a dedicated project thread. What the sig does not show is that big credit is due to both Mark at Lateral Performance (mastermind behind the build) and Pat Herborne for their vital contribution made to date
That said, I'm positive that the end results and times will vindicate my decision to put it up as sadly I haven't got time to put up a dedicated project thread. What the sig does not show is that big credit is due to both Mark at Lateral Performance (mastermind behind the build) and Pat Herborne for their vital contribution made to date .Think of how your sig reads from a more dodgy perspective...
Last edited by joz8968; 19 August 2009 at 10:06 AM.
19 August 2009, 03:13 PM
#210
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Duncan
Progress has been very slow of late and i just managed to get hold of a custom sized rad today.Its not the usual alloy one but its made from a copper core iirc.Are these units good or bad?
As from now the garage has both the rad and fmic,work will commence at the earnest and will get pics posted as soon as poss.