john banks

I've started studying the g-force meter which gives you about 20 seconds of history. I noticed I was pulling a lot more g that I thought I was, 1g in any direction is not actually too hard, not just transient either. I think my brain needs recalibrating as this has become normal. Of course this was all in the dry.

john banks

I'm starting to rethink whether to get rid of these tyres as now I am finding it is scrabbling in a straight line in 3rd gear, despite AWD and massive sticky rubber. In the dry it is fun though.

Brun

If it's scrabbling in a straight line then surely your problem will be solved soon as you will have to replace them anyway

Hoppy

I just have to say that talk of an S4, modded or otherwise, as some kind of alternative to a GTR or 997 Turbo as laughable, quite frankly. Same for any hypothetical 335ix or anything vaguely similar.

I have the V8 S4 and while the new car is better in all sorts of small ways, it is fundamentally the same car. That is, a heavy (nose heavy), luxury saloon with wooden steering and safety-first 4WD. It has some fun bits added, well just one bit actually - a reasonable dollop of poke, but it's really aimed at people that like to go fast and perhaps think they can drive, but ultimately they're never going to get into too much trouble when the electronics cut in (early) or even get very involved.

My modded Scoob, which I still have with a similar amount of power, is dynamically superior in every respect and a heck of a lot quicker, more fun and more invloving. If you want to have fun in a luxo-barge, then I find that only a really silly amount of power gets it close to a custom supercar like a GTR or 997t. In other words, an RS6.

But the Nissan and Porsche also have the power, not too much weight, quality dynamics designed in, not bolted on. I think John that you would probably enjoy your wonderful new car a lot more if you take an S4 for a thrash, and see what a snail it is in comparison. Never mind the dynamics that are in another league too.

I also think it's almost irrelevant to talk about wet performance which has got so little to do with power and pretty much everything to do with tyres.

john banks

Don't worry, I'm delighted with it, but I'm not so blinkered that I can't see the great merits of many other cars. There is a lot to be said for luxury much of the time.

But there is also a lot to be said for maxxing out a set of six 550cc injectors

jeremy

Hoppy,

I with you on that . I told John so much about my father's 3 series ix. However I think Audi is getting somewhere with it new direction in 4wd- which is in some ways more sophisticated even than the Nissan. Not to mention that the next gen RS5 might soon be hundreds of pounds lighter than the GT-R and now we are at least beginning to see some competition, maybe. check this link...

Audi A5 lightweight prototype - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk

Also I think the notion of driving in the wet and narrow and bumpy etc actually is rather important as its great to have a car that works with you. A car that you know will let you know whats its going to do and if it goes there- and starts slips, that it does so in a nice slow and catch-able manner.

No offense to John and his GT-R, but I would offer that some number of modded Impreza's could be easier to control and more fun to play around with (safely) on many narrow roads
than a GT-R. While of course its obvious that a GT-R would take the cake on any sort of big winding road or highway. In fact I think it would be safe to say that would it be great if there could be a GT-R the was lighter and a bit smaller? Just something to dream about for the future. I think one day they could keep the GT-R's rigidity and high speed ability by using carbon fiber; would be cool.

PS Yes I know the GT-R is bloody (uk) stupid (US) able to mash most roads to its will. J

john banks

It is doing very well over my favourite narrow road in that it handles the bumpy bits and hump back bridge whilst keeping the tyres on the road, and in the dry feels nimble doing it. The road is narrow enough that you need to virtually stop to pass a car coming the other way, but there are sections you can use power in when you have visibility and then it is really something. Would be nice if lighter and a bit smaller, but it already has a lot of aluminium panels, the hardware on the car is heavy with proper sound proofing which works well at speed in particular, and heavy wheels/tyres/brakes/engine/gearbox etc as well as the rigidity which does mean the initial firm ride is only an initial surprise and feels appropriate at speed, I'm switching out of the softest suspension now when pressing on unless the road is very bumpy which is a good sign I think that the suspension is settling in or it isn't so firm it is skipping. Evo IX is definitely a nicer weight, Evo X is about half way between the two, but both have 4 cylinder engines...

jeremy

"Evo IX is definitely a nicer weight"

So John how do you think the two would compare on some of your local roads?
inferring from what you have said it sounds like the GT-R is a much more precision machine, more solid, faster, much more stable, but maybe the evo 9 would be easier to pull back from a slip? But as well more likely to slip in the first place- so a bit of a draw in terms of speed with safety/sanity? jl

john banks

I think the Evo would be caught out by lag and the GTR by its width.

john banks

10.8 second quarter at Santa Pod today on a car I mapped for GTC, terminal speeds as high as 128mph, backed up with other runs. It has exhaust and intercooler. Full weight, road tyres, no launch control, just floor it in auto.

alloy

Great stuff John, i know we chatted a few times when I had my Evo 9 about ECUflash and all the work and trickery you achieved there. I presume with Ben and the GTR you using Cobb??

john banks

Yes I've been developing stuff for Ben and Cobb.

Deep Singh

Thanks for your earlier reply John.

I think given your passion, and the enjoyment you get from tuning, the GTR was a car almost made for you. It may have the odd downside (like ALL cars do), but there is no other car that will give YOU so much fun.

Enjoy!

john banks

I had amazing fun today on the roads up near Aviemore when I went for some rafting, 5 hours of thrilling driving on one tank, comfortable enough to not feel fatigued, but with enough options to be absolutely rabid when required. On bumpy roads it is simply brilliant, not getting knocked off line, with incredible traction in the dry, phenomenal acceleration and plenty of feel, I have never deployed this much torque on corner exits in anything else I've driven with it feeling involving but not threatening, spot on for my sort of road car. As long as the road is wide enough to get the car down it feels in a different league to anything else I've been in.

Enjoying the more aggressive modes on the stability and gearbox, although suspension is about 50/50 in comfort or sport, I don't use R which is non adaptive and maximum firm.

The ride quality is improving still as it all settles in.

alloy

Had my GTR on the dyno down at Surrey Rolling Road this weekend with the Miltek Y-Pipe that car recorded 503.7bhp with 492ftlbs.....a few shades more than Nissan's quoted 480bhp with 440ftlbs

john banks

Still enjoying the GTR tremendously. No faults so far. Just had six month service £150 plus me supplying the oil. Tyres are about 5mm after 4000 miles.

This is an interesting comparison between a GTR with mapping based on my ECU work and a Y-pipe and a stock 5.0 Biturbo V10 RS6 (which I was also considering):

YouTube - Audi RS6 vs. Nissan GT-R R35

I think I chose the correct car

It is brilliant in the snow and ice, just standing water needs some care. I think the video clip explains why the GTR has traction problems where the RS6 doesn't...

jeremy

"It is brilliant in the snow and ice, just standing water needs some care. I think the video clip explains why the GTR has traction problems where the RS6 doesn't..."

Care to explain the traction problems?

BTW john did you switch to non-run flats yet? Or soon? Still love to hear how the Skyline drives with "normal" tires. thanks, J

alloy

Good to hear John! Took mine to Brands Hatch the other week and the car just comes alive when driven as it should be!

i know what you mean about standing water, i had a heart in mouth moment whilst in the outside lane of the M25 aqua planing. Summer rubber and with the width that they are as well just seem to create a sledge effect on standing water IMO but otherwise enjoying sublime motoring!

Matteeboy

John - can't believe your choice was between a 335i and a GTR - one is a fast car, the other is a supercar!

Shame about the aquaplaning. Can you change the tyres? I'm sure you can't get them in GTR size but Conti SC3s really are astonishingly good at resisting it. Probably helps having much narrower/smaller wheels too though.

john banks

I could change the tyres, but I've not heard enough reports about the non-RFT alternatives yet and availability in the right sizes and loads is not great.

The suspension has settled down, I just drive a little more sensibly in heavy rain, otherwise I'm happy with the tyres, everything is a compromise. Both the wife and I find it comfortable.

I'll probably go for the cheaper Bridgestone RFT when it comes to time to change £1100 a set and they last longer, some say they are a little better in the wet, and slightly less capable in the dry.

The traction problem is simply due to the quite ridiculous amounts of torque trying to go through summer tyres in poor conditions. You can see the results in terms of acceleration in the video against what is already a very fast car that isn't short of torque itself. They don't always start the pull at the same time, but the GTR just drives away from the RS6.

335i is a seriously nice car, with some tuning, pads and LSD it would be amazing apart from in the snow.

Matteeboy

Or any mud. I get stuck in my d in ANYTHING apart from tarmac! Had to be pushed out yesterday in fact - doh!

Hope Bridgestone RFTs for the GT-R are better than those for E90 Beemers -they are pants.

LG John

LMAO at RS6 video - that's some acceleration to walk away from an RS6 that easily!

Dingdongler

Which video mate?

MMT WRX

He took it down but I think this is it.

here

Dingdongler

Thanks mate.

Is that video for real? The GTR leaves the RS6 for dead, I don't underestimate the GTR but to pull that far that fast is amazing

john banks

Yes, video is for real, it is a GTC tuned car using my base map against his friend's RS6. I don't think they always start accelerating at the same time, but it still shows how the combination of c.300kg less weight, a dual clutch gearbox, a low loss drivetrain, good aerodynamics and some careful tuning can help. I have put a huge amount of work into rewriting the OEM boost control, spent a month each disassembling knock and ignition routines, and another month working out the airflow and load calculations to give mapping that I'm pleased with, smooth but linear and with lag a non-issue, cooperating with all the safety systems. It looks to be paying off.

Presently I'm working on the gearbox controller, there is an issue with it refusing to shift once you go over about 1000Nm torque. The best stock turbo GTRs in full weight and stock tyres are currently running about 0.3 seconds slower on the quarter mile than a stock Veyron.

Dingdongler

Hi john, glad to see you are having such fun and success with the GTR.

I don't think the video 'is for real' though. I think it would take more than 300kg weight difference and a slick gear box for one car to leave the other for dead like that, especially when already at speed.

There seems to be no coordination between the two drivers as to when the accelerating starts, which you have mentioned in your post as well. So though I have no doubt that a 600 BHP GTR is a faster car than a RS6, that video is not a fair representation.

john banks

Videos like this are always tricky, but they both have automatic gearboxes and both were wide open throttle and you can see a relative difference in acceleration, if the GTR starts behind it comes past and continues to gain. There will be about a second and 10mph between their quarter mile times/terminals, which is quite substantial as anyone that has a 12 second car knows when an 11 second bike races them.

With similar power but more weight, GTRs can often equal an Impreza or Evo for similar reasons of gearbox, torque, aero, lag, losses etc.

Matteeboy

Driving that fast with snow all over the place...

Brun

Didn't see any snow on the road????