Lunchie

Interesting story. A bit pukey but the message remains the same.

At the weekend I was going down a speedbump festooned road, one every 50 ft or so, no time to do any time before slowing for the next one. And some tw@t overtook me in a Cavalier ! Couldn't believe it.

Lunchie

Jerry B

Pukey story as someone said but it makes you think, and if it makes just one person refrain from giving it some at the wrong moment then it's worth it.
Personally I'd rather be hit by a car going as slow as possible, and hopefully not at all.
I exceed the speed limit at times, am guilty of aggressive driving, but I do try to be vigilant in built up areas and sometimes fail, I need reminding.
There's too much irresponsible egotistical aggressive crap on this website about how fast our cars are, how much faster mine is than yours, which cars I blew away, which other cars are driven by ***** behaving badly blah blah blah...... why knock someone who's trying to make a point in the right direction FOR A CHANGE?
You can say what you like about speed appropriate for the conditions but it is nearly always harder to stop or avoid danger from a higher speed than a lower one. You never know what is around that next corner. We know it makes sense, we just don't want to hear it. Public roads are not the place for that stuff if we are honest. The conditions for racing are found on a racetrack.
Speed in itself may not be the culprit, but it is often the result of aggressive, irresponsible driving, and if it contributes that 'little' bit then that's something to consider....
As for police speed traps, I think that is a seperate issue and although the principles are sound the practice very often appears to be financially orientated, but the law is the law.
Hope I remember some of these stories when I'm behind the wheel.
Thanks for starting the topic.
Jerry.


[Edited by Jerry B - 2/28/2002 9:55:10 AM]

STi go fast

"Thanks for those two stories. But lets not kid ourselves that these accidents were CAUSED by excessive speed. On both occasions they were caused because one party turned into the path of another
vehicle.

Excessive speed for the conditions was a CONTRIBUTORY factor to the damage caused."

devils_ad is spot on- if the cars people had been going faster then they would have been past the accident before it happened so how can speed be the cause when it can be proved that it might not be.

people are to quick to jump on the speed is bad train.

J

devils_ad69

Jerry B,

<Pukey story as someone said but it makes you think, and if it makes just one person refrain from giving it some at the wrong moment then it's worth it.>

But for how long do these stories remain embedded in peoples minds? No long, I would imagine...

<Personally I'd rather be hit by a car going as slow as possible, and hopefully not at all.>

Personally, I'd rather not be hit by a car at all. That means I check the circumstances before crossing. I don't blindly step into the road like some pedestrians do. And when I am driving I reduce my speed to take account of the fact that the pedestrian ambling towards the kerb may suddenly just throw themselves into my path.

<I exceed the speed limit at times, am guilty of agressive driving, but I do try to be vigilant in built up areas.>

Vigilant? Of what?

<There's too much irresponsible egotistical agressive crap on this website about how fast our cars are, how much faster mine is than yours, which cars I blew away, which other cars are driven by ***** behaving badly blah blah blah...... why knock someone who's trying to make a point in the right direction FOR A CHANGE?>

You mean like people who claim they exceed the speed limit AND drive aggressively. Sounds like they are a danger behind the wheel, to me.

<You can say what you like about speed appropriate for the conditions but it is nearly always harder to stop or avoid danger from a higher speed than a lower one. You never know what is around that next corner. We know it makes sense, we just don't want to hear it.>

Overall stopping distances are there to indicate to people how long it will take them to stop. I ALWAYS drive at a speed where I know I can stop safely in the distance I can see to be clear. Do you?

<Speed in itself may not be the culprit, but it is often the result of agressive, irresponsible driving, and if it contributes that 'little' bit then that's something to consider....>

Agreed. Bad aggressive driving cause the vasy majority of accidents.

<As for police speed traps, I think that is a seperate issue and although the principles are sound the practice very often appears to be financially orientated, but the law is the law.>

Sound? So you think it is perfectly reasonable for a bad driver with poor eyesight, dodgy brakes, faked documents in wet weather conditions while tailgating the car in front, to drive past a hidden speed camera at 29MPH and not get caught. Whereas an advanced driver actively scanning for hazards gets caught at 36MPH and somehow that is meant to improve road safety in the UK?

MATTeL

Following on from the "inappropriate speed" idea, when I was taught to drive and ride a motorbike I was told to make sure I obey the speed limit (for obvious reasons) and then on top of that drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions.

There is a real f*ckwit near me that drives far to quickly down the street (between the speed bumps). Apparently though it is fine as he is doing 30mph the speed limit.

I personally drive around 20-25mph, or slower. There are parked cars and children about. An example of why this is a good idea was going between parked cars and a ball bounced out in fornt of me, I started to brake and then really braked when the child followed the ball.

The worst of it was the kind stopped to watch the car breaking, any faster and he would have got a very close up view!

The mother then ran out and came over to me said thank you and then grabbed the child saying something about road safety followed by a loud slapping noise.

Seen the kid since, he waves at me now!

Jerry B

Devils.

Your 'advanced' driver was breaking a law. He can't complain about that. If he was driving a little slower with the same concentration levels and skills he would be taking a slightly lower risk.
Your blind driver is probably breaking several, but that's another debate, we were talking about speeding. And I didn't mention that it was okay, or think that it is, you suggested the scenario.

Overall stopping distances you mention - I assume you refer to the Highway Code here?....since you mention it, these were calculated long ago to my knowledge and do not reflect the improvements in general braking performance. Even so I would say that I definitely on many occasions do not drive at a speed allowing me to stop within the distance I see to be clear. If I did this there are many times I would have to slow down dramatically to 30, maybe 20mph, maybe less as I use a lot of country roads. I'm not justifying my actions, just stating them.
I am guilty! I admit it! I'm aware of many of my own driving deficiencies! Clearly I am not as advanced as your advanced driver.

I don't believe all speed limits are necessarily appropriate, and I don't always stick to them, but luckily I don't set the limits and if I break them I can't complain if I get caught.
Fortunately I haven't killed or maimed anyone as result of my ignorance of the law and driving ineptitude, I hope I learn enough and am sufficiently lucky not to do so.

Perhaps this post is only beneficial to the likes of me who needs reminding of these things and not your advanced driver who knows better already.

Be lucky mate.

Richard, Thanks for your post, it has made me think. Are you really a safety advisor?


[Edited by Jerry B - 2/28/2002 11:11:46 AM]

devils_ad69

Jerry B,

<Your 'advanced' driver was breaking a law. He can't complain about that.>

Yes but the wider arguement is whether or not the current policy is making our roads safer. I do not believe it is. It is simply training people to drive everywhere at the speed limit and sod the consequences!

ozzy

Jimbrit,

Do you ever go above the speed limit? If you do, like all of us, then I don't see why you should be reminded not to.

You obviously can show some restraint and not go around shooting, robbing or drug taking. If you decided to try any of these, I'd want someone to remind you not to

The point is, we all do it, so we should be constantly reminded of the fact the we are breaking the law and exactly what happens when it goes wrong.

Devils,

We all speed no matter how squeaky clean we'd like people to think we are; I'll be the first to admit doing it. But having witnessed a few kids being hit (none killed thankfully) and having a young girl run right across the road in front of me, I've certainly changed my driving style. I've a 10yr old little sister and it could easily have been her lying on the road.

The speed limits are set becuase it's the simplest method of reducing the risks to both motorists and pedestrians. People talk about increasing limits on motorways or different limits for different types of car, but that would just increase the risks. If something goes wrong, whether it's your fault or not, your more likely to either avoid the accident or live @ 60-70 rather than 100+.

The cars might be better at stopping, handling, etc. but you'd still get an @rsehole driving one. The person driving is more likely to get involved in an accident regardless of what type of car they drive.

I would like to think I'm a very good driver, but I only 'think' I am. Like 90% of drivers, we're pretty cr@p and take far too many avoidable risks.

In the immortal words of Sgt Phil Esterhaus - 'Hey, let's be careful out there'

Stefan

devils_ad69

Stefan,

Now I think we are getting somewhere. You've now acknowledged that you modify your driving to suit the prevailing conditions. Well, that is a BIG BIG plus in terms of advanced driving.

Now all we have to to is convince lots of people to take advanced course so they are more aware of their surroundings.

Instead of fining people 60 quid and giving them 3 points, the authorities should be forcing people onto advanced courses.

At 03:00 on a Sunday mornign in clear weather it might be possible to do 50MPH along a road in perfect safety. At 15:30 on aFriday afternoon 30MPH is way too fast!!

Do you see the angle I'm coming from? I'm all for zero tolerance of certain driving offences (tailgating for instance) but that requires trained police officers on the ground not cameras. Offences like tailgating are dangerous at any speed, which is not the case with exceeding a speed limit.

ap_smith

I agree with Devils_ad on many of the points, but I think one of the best ways of getting a real appreciation of the road and conditions is to get a bike license.

On a bike, no matter who is right/wrong YOU will be the victim in an accident. It teaches you a real appreciation of road awareness, identifying hazards, appropriate speed etc.

I've got a scooby, but also a bike license. I hadn't realised how easy it is to become cocooned inside the tin box until I got the 2 wheeled ticket.

Andy

rogue trooper

here we go, nuther story.
whilst driving along an A road two years ago 60 limit, i was doing about 55, i was over taken by two cars and two m/bikes all doing in excess of 80 mph, i thought they need to be carefull up ahead as there is a nasty "s" bend up ahead, guess wot? when i reached the s bend there were what used to be cars, lorries, bikes, busses and human beings, all smashed up,in ditches, all over the ******* place, i stopped, got on the phone, did the biz as it were, and at the end of the day there were FOUR deaths and SEVEN crippled/maimed for life, and god only knows how many broken bones and general injuries, i had to attend numerous court hearings etc etc, verdict: SPEEDING KILLS: it was determined that just one of the speeding vehicles lost it on the s bend and as three or more vehicles were also speeding, nobody could respond in time as they were all going too fast to.
i hope to god i never have to witness anything like that ever again in my life, and i have quite a strong constitution.

well done to chris for starting this one, and to MATTel for his comments and jerryB.

for those of you who dont like the speed limits on our roads, TAKE IT ON THE TRACK!

and yes, even i occasionally break the speed limit,if on motorways, sometimes you just dont realise it!

anyway, safe motoring people

rogue.