scooby L

Rob's (currently unique) failure can be partly, if not totally attributed to his local shell garage filling their V-Power tank with normal unleaded...

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

That's good to hear, so the only 3rd party mapped engine known to have failed is Robs and it seems there are some good reasons behind that.

So are we right in insisting the pistons are the major problem or is not the mapping? If 3rd party mapped engines are running 350ish or more in lots of cases and lasting then are the pistons that bad (i know they can't be classed as good)? It seems that the 330s map, standard map and updated standard maps are a bit sh*te....

Any of the mappers care to say what is wrong with the standard maps or is that a guarded secret?

Tony.

rob84

iTrader: (5)

Fuel sample's were taken and they came back as 95 ron So with the high power output and crap fuel it attributed to the death of my engine at 30,200 miles

She lasted well haha

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Hi Tony

I am not sure if cars that have had the ecu patch by Subaru are still going pear shaped, if they are it can only be that the std (even patched) map doesnt quiet fit the cars themselves. I have seen some strange stuff presented by the 32bit ecu in the hatches but that aside i think the main reason is that the rev limit is too low.

Owners that have previously had subarus (2.0 ones in particular) will find themselves hitting the rev limit very quickly and depending on previous other car experience the other owners can find themselves doing the same.

It doesnt take long to cause some damage when the map isnt quite right for the car.

Subaru's map patch effectively brought the rev limit down lower still but this time with a softer limit so as to encourage people to change gear before 6500. The original map was obviously rubbish when looking at it but this is a bit of a bodge solution in my eyes and ignores the fact that it is a performance car and driven with entusiasm on occasion.

It seems that either the custom mapped cars seem to enjoy their maps better with fueling, boost and timing set for that particular car or .... maybe the power spread is better suited to the engine with the peak torque going up and making it much easier to change gear at a time before the 6500 so as to bring you back into the peak torque area. It is a hard one to call.

As you say the engines themselves are essentially the same as in the 2006/7 cars and aside from a few issues there wasnt this mass problem.

A small part of me thinks that the ecu itself is the issue.

mickp

iTrader: (1)

Great info......Thanks.

Mrfastbaz

after my recent short engine in the 57 sti have set my warning at 6000 rpm instead of 6500 it was set at when i bought the car in april

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

+1... thanks for the info. I've only had my car since August and after having come straight from a rev forever M3 i did find myself initially hitting or getting very close to the limiter. I've since set the warning for 6000rpm and turned the buzzer on, which so far has succeeded in keeping away from the limiter.

First thing I need to do is get my car down to Prosport to see if i have the standard or updated map.

Ultimately the map will get sorted.

urban

iTrader: (1)

+2
Excellent information there.

VinceW

When I got my car in Oct 2009 I couldn't work out why I was sometimes hitting the rev limiter. The red line was at 6700 and I was changing gear before this? It turns out there is a soft limiter at 6500 and this is what I was hitting. I had the light set to 6500! I have now set the light and buzzer to 6000, not that you can always hear the buzzer with the radio on! No issues as yet and not using any oil (fingers crossed!) The car has now done 9500 miles. My car was remapped by Subaru before I bought it (at point of import apparently). I mostly drive in I mode, just using the others occasionally!

scooby L

Get some pics up of your hatch EE9

Evilengine#9

I would take some......but its currently sat in the shop feeling rather sorry for it's self! Once it's back, I will post some up. It's white with blacked out windows, sitting on Tein springs (30mm drop) with the black and pink STI mudflaps.....well it will have the mudflaps back on when i re-attach them after the wife managed to remove both of them (and the left side rear wheel arch cover) with a natty piece of reversing..... Poor thing is having a run of it at the mo.

I think I have a rubbish pick on my phone, I will chuck that up as an Avatar when i work out how to...

EE#9

mickp

iTrader: (1)

Time for a BTT

scooby L

EE9

If you're still waiting for an OEM air filter give Iain Litchfield a call..I'm sure he'll have dozens kicking around his garage floor...

scooby L

You were quoted over £300 for an air filter?

scooby L

Jeeesus..

You had a full K & N cold air intake WITHOUT a remap??!..... no wonder they wanted the OEM intake back on it... that's engine suicide on the 2008> car pal... lean mixtures are us... massive DET and piston meltdown...

Whoever sold you that without recommending the fueling be re-mapped should be footing the bill not IM....

The maximum you can change on the intake system (without having to re-map on the newer models) is the panel filter (which is what I thought you meant). they're actually good for up to 400bhp with just £30 outlay.

Evilengine#9

it has had the PPP remap, but not a specific one....

I am new to the 08 hatch club and I am discovering the "joys" of ownership as we go.....

I have a 2001 STI bugeye wagon that I was selling to make way for this one, good job I didn't sell it as yet. It gave me a knowing look as I pulled up in the new car, guess it knew that it wasn't going anywhere for a bit.

urban

iTrader: (1)

FFS don't reveal any identities on here
Be aware that I.M definately scan this forum!

scooby L

PPP means nothing

K & N cone Air filter on a dedicated cold air feed would feed far too much air,
The ecu (PPP'd or not) would just not be expecting that greater volume... it'll never keep the fuel mix rich enough...

Evilengine#9

Removed some posts to clear the board of some of my unnecessary ramblings. I will keep it on point in future.

david.mufcsti

i have a 2008 sti hatchback. got a remap , exhaust , panel filter. when they guy was doing the remap he was worried the fuel was going in too lean didn't think nothing of it. one week later was losing power took it back done a compression test on the pistons 3 were showing between 140- 145 but piston no 4 was only 80. now i'm going for uprated pistons and conrods which is going to cost me over £2,500 .subaru have messed up BIGTIME my subaru has only done 11,000 miles would never had thought something like that would happen . if anyone else has this problem let me know

Littleted

Dave its because you support MUFC its blown sorry But thats the way God thinks :P

But on a serious note, your mapper should have compensated surely if he thoguht it was too lean, isnt that what they do Know there stuff and help you.Duncan above may be able to advise.

but the map and the leaness prob was the demise of your engine, did you ever drive it like it was stolen hit the limiter etc ?

rob84

iTrader: (5)

If the mapper said it was lean then why didnt he do something about it. the ***** firmly in his court I'd reckon.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Bit unfair to pin it on the mapper, seems the damage was already done before the mapper touched the car hence it lasting a week.

rickya

iTrader: (18)

If you mod or map your car it's entirley at your own risk. I wouldn't ever think of blaming the mapper.

Littleted

I wouldn't blame the mapper either, but I'd expect a good one to either say I,ll change it or advise me not to bother, prob right damage may have been before he touched it.

mickp

iTrader: (1)

If it had no symptoms before the mapping then i would also be unhappy with the mapper. I thought the whole point of a map was to set all the parameters for any mods that been fitted and make sure fueling was set correctly.

The above of course is assuming we have the full story.

Alan Jeffery

Please excuse my being a little pedantic here.
Your advice is good, but..
Replacing a stock air filter system with an alternative doesn't mean the engine is being fed more air as such. The engine sucks of course, and altering the way incoming air passes over the mass air flow sensor is what it's about. The sensor is being monitored by the ECU, and the input is used to calculate load. Changing the air filter can radically alter ignition as well as fuelling, on the basis that the ECU responds to load, and will give differing outputs for differing inputs.
The point is that it's not air/fuel ratio being directly affected by the filter, so much as the effect on the sensor of the change.
The simple answer is not to replace the air filter without at least checking the results carefully.

Apostle

So... either the mapper should be shot OR you were v unlucky...

Some cars have lasted on the standard pistons - but TBH I reckon its comfortably more than one in ten 08+ sti's that have gone pop. Mine did. Must be close to one in five by now.

Best thing you can do is take it to a decent engine shop where all the necesscary work can be done in house. Alan Jefferys Enginetuner should be top of your list...

A

david.mufcsti

if i would had known the fuel going in wasn't rite i would have never have got it re mapped. as he was mapping the car he adjusted the fuel. i think the damage was done from day one. i guess i was lucky i didn't blow up the engine. hopefully when i get it back it will be spot on.

i am getting wossener pistons. are they any good?

EngineMapper @ Group B Motorsport

Am I missing something here, the chap doing the remap thought the fuel was going in too lean? Is this person a Subaru mapping specialist or have I missed something obvious!

As Alan says, the ecu relies on the input of the maf sensor to be correctly calibrated to maintain the correct amount of air to fuel ratio and load, which in turn has a knock on effect as to what ignition is being used. Subaru spent a lot of time on all the inlet systems to maintain a consistent and calibrated air flow through the maf. When an induction kit or open filter is used, it is all to common to see a very inconsistent air flow at low load and an out of scale calibration on full load.

What I think is missed all too often when a car is being mapped is the absolute importance of the maf calibration to be verified and the fueling table to have the correct numbers in. Failure to do both these things will seriously effect the longevity and integrity of the fueling targets that it was mapped to.

My advice on this point is simple, if you have a TMIC and an induction kit, then junk the induction kit and put the standard air box back on with a decent panel filter. Unless you are trying to hit 360+ you will not need this on the Hatch onwards, you certainly don't need this on the 2001-2006 Bug and Blob or Hawkeye.

The original failure point of the Hatchbacks was very simple and although they use a lower grade of material in the newer pistons, it should and will not fail if mapped correctly and within carefully considered limits.

Hope this is useful to some,

Graham