T20Driver

iTrader: (3)

Here is the spec of Mike's beast .. it is NOT one of Iain's twin scrolls ..

Spec at present

Suspension

Tein flex coilovers
Cusco antiroll bars F&R
Cusco upper and lower F&R strut/suspension braces
Whiteline anitlift kit and drop links F&R
Whiteline role center adjusters (track rod ends and ball joints)
Ail wishbones
Powerflex bushes throughout

Brakes

Front AP six pot 355mm disks
Rear K Sport six pot 330mm disks
Braided lines
Castrol SRF Brake Fluid

Transmission

6 Speed JDM box with DCCD, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th changed to 08 uk spec
Rear Diff R160 3.9 Cusco 1.5 way
Exedy triple plate carbon clutch

Engine Short motor 2359cc

Block EJ 22T Closed deck block rebored to 97.5mm
Billet 79mm stroke crank
ACL race Bearings
Arrows rods
JE Pistions with total seal high tension rings
Cosworth 12mm oil pump
6.5L alu big wing sump, Baffled and trap doored

Engine Heads

STI 6 heads
Heavly ported
Chambers opened up to match larger bore
Chambers CC matched
Supertec intake and exaust valves
Supertec double valve springs
Supertec titanium retainers
Piper LP spec Cams
14mm center head studs and 12/14mm outside head studs
1.5mm Cosworth stopper headgaskets

Engine Aux

Cosworth intake Manifold modified to run new age cable operated throtle body
Garret GT3582R turbo with ported shroud 0.82 exhaust housing (Ceramic coated)
RCM/LP stainless steel exhaust manifold allowing turbo in the twisted position (Ceramic coated)
Full 3” exhaust system with racing cat
Lateral performance intercooler/rad kit
Custom made oil cooler setup
NGK racing 8 plugs

Engine management / control

Solaris ECU
Techadge O2 wideband
Apexi avcr boost controller
Defi gauges (oil pressure, oil temp, turbo, exhaust temp, fuel pressure)
KS3 knock meter

Snow boost water injection system not mapped in just used for additional safety

Fuel System

255 L Walborough in tank pump
1.5 L Swirl pot
Twin 044 motorsport pressure pumps
Twin FSE fuel filters
Twin -6 PTF stainless steel overbraded feed lines
One -6 PTF stainless steel overbraded return line
Custom fuel rails
Injector Dymanics 1000cc injectors (will flow 1300cc at my fuel pressure)
Stactic fuel presure set to 4.2 bar

Miss Stuff

2.25 Turn lock to lock quick rack
Eletric-hyd power steering
Bucket seats
5 point 3" race harnesses
OMP removable steering wheel
Full FIA approved weld in roll cage
Heated front windscreen
Group N rally car 160 Amp alternator (to be fitted)



RR figs

658 BHP 560 ftlb Race fuel (109)
630 BHP 530 ftlb Vpower + 20% Meth

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

excellent

Zisis

Great info regarding the long awaited twinscroll turbo (at least for myself) from Litchfield. I am for the past year looking for a replacement of my reliable and never-let-down VF36. I have looked on many options of hybrid twinscroll turbos over this period but I will fall for one of Litchfield's units. I cannot decide though which size of compressor inlet to go for.

As Shaun has mentioned in his great Project Spec C thread, after I installed the APS 65mm CAI, my VF36 unit started to surge! I was very lucky at that time, some 5 years ago, that Andy Forrest was on vacation in Greece and he made the programming of the twinscroll setup, and the surge appeared in 5th and 6th gear. Max boost was around 3500 rpm.

Having this experience in mind, I am thinking to get the 76mm inlet compressor unit so that I have no surge maters with the turbo. This will cost though, since I will need extra 3in inlet hose and most probably a 76mm CAI instead of the 65mm that I now have.

I have contacted Ian at Litchfield, which was very professional and helpful and he recommended the 2,25in inlet unit so that I do not have to change nothing regarding my intake. He mentioned that they did not have any surge issues with the turbo unit so everything should be fine. But still in the back of my mind is the surge from the VF36!!!

My setup is as follows:
Euro spec STI 2003 New age, standard pistons con rods etc.
APS 65mm CAI,
AVO inlet pipe,
APS topmount I/C,
twinscroll setup (exhaust manifold, up pipe, VF36 turbo)
Zerosports catted downpipe for twiscroll & exhaust system

Can anyone advise any further?

Shaun

The induction kit is the primary cause of surge on the oe turbo. Depending on your power goals, you could revert back to oe airbox to eliminate surge. Surge is not good as I am sure you are aware.

I'm sure other solutions exist, but if Iain states it is not a problem with these turbos, no need to worry.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

is the surge you mention noise or does the car actually surge back and forth?

Zisis

It is compressor surge, pressure fluctuation between 1.0 bar and about 0.4 at the instrument, acompanied by noise.

Mind that the reason I want to replace the turbo is not because it surges (which I learn to live with it for 5 years now) but because I want a stronger setup.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

doh.. that proper annoying surge then

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Results are in on mine...460bhp and 480 lbft. The graphs are a bit odd - maybe the centre cat restricting flow at the top end - but on the road it flies

Haven't had much of an opportunity to drive it yet, but tried to check spool - seemed to be hitting 1 bar at 3000 and 1.6/1.7 at 3300 which can't be bad!

Will post more once I've driven it over the weekend.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

TIM : Very weak 4,600 onwards. Can you measure EGTs?
Zisis : I have found the APS CAK is a bad restriction on breathing at 400 bhp simply because you cannot fit an adequately large filter on the end of what is a long pipe run.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

it won't flow the boost at the top end.. hence the power tails off.. possibly the cat but sensible to stop there somewhere with a standard ej257 block

that particular run has a peak in boost at 5k and not the best shape curve unfortunatly.

Simon

TimH

iTrader: (11)

The target was 480, I got 460 and a shed-load of torque...would I *really* notice the difference between 460 and 480bhp..I doubt it!

Anyway, I will be off for a 2 hour drive on good A roads shortly so will have a real chance to really see how it behaves, and will report back

After what's nearly a year of getting this build up and running, I'm just pleased that it's pretty much there now...and, if I can save up a few more pennies in a while, I might just go for a simtek, and could perhaps try putting the centre decat pipe back in (oh...then again, I sold it )

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Not sure I agree with "very weak", but them I'm no expert...but, no, I have no EGT gauge although this is something Iain suggested.

Zisis

Thanks for the tip Harvey, I thought I would be ok with it at 400 hp. I can get an APS 75mm CAI from a friend at no cost, will it do the work or shall I look for something else?

Shaun

It seems very strange that as the turbo has now been checked (to erradicate that being a problem), the smaller sized LM on a smaller turbine housing made 450+bhp on a 2ltr, but this set-up has made only 9bhp more on a 2.5ltr with a bigger LM. Peak power at 5k? I would suggest something else needs attention. Boost profile does not look great either, but I suspect part of the lazyness was due to the run in 3rd?

Strange that the runs were done in 3rd on a 6sp box as I thought they used 4th on DD RR's for 6sp'ders.

Simon,
Did you try pulling the air filter off and run it?

Tim,
Are you running the 100cell CAT and do you know whether or not it has collapsed?

I'm not sure why you would want to buy another ECU..... your ECU is easily man enough if taken full benefit of, for this level.

Hope you get it all sorted mate. Modifying cars can give you some right gas!

Zisis,
If you want something that will cope, get a Hyperflow inner wing kit and bash a HUGE K&N on the end. That is what I did as I had reached the limits of the supplied Hyperflow filter.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

OK - just got back from a drive.

Spool - 1bar at 3300 and 1.7 at 3600 in 6th. This is consistent with the results after the split downpipe was fixed, so the recent mapping - although much improving delivery and performance - has not changed the spool.

This means spool is about 1000rpm worse that the VF37 - but of course I have 100 more bhp and 100 more lbft so that's probably a case of you-get-that.

On the road, it feels quite "top end" still with most of the power between 4000 and 6000rpm, although it will spin much higher than 6000 without any problem.

There's perceptible lag, mostly due to the FMIC, but really not enough to be any concern at all.

Once it's going, it's very very fast and overtaking long lines of cars is definitely of the "f*ck me that's fast" variety - huge grins

Overall - I'm obviously very very pleased as it's hugely more powerful than before, but I have to be honest and say I don't think it's 100% right yet.

Shaun - just seen your post as I was typing this so will reply as soon as I hit "submit reply" to this

TimH

iTrader: (11)

It may be that the printout shows this incorrectly as I imagine it's a manual edit in the software. I was sitting in the back of the car at the time but, tbh, I can't say what gear it was in...but would be surprised if Simon didn't use the usual 4th gear.
Not while I was there...it's the huge K&N cone that goes with the BRD 80mm MAF/intake. I cleaned and re-oiled it about 15,000 miles ago if that makes any difference?

It's the Milltek centre-section cat, no other cats in sight. It's only a few 1000 miles old...could it have collapsed in that time? How would I know?[/quote]

Simply based on Simon's advice - he said that it was not necessary, but did make mapping easier and had finer resolution and usually gave a bit more power as a result. It's in the "nice-to-have" category, if only to get a second map for low boost (wet tracks in mind) since the ecutek megarom refuses to activate the AVCS on my ecu for some reason despite many many many attempts

So I'm discovering, Shaun

Shaun

Regarding the removal of the induction kit, it is just an easy thing to check if a restriction is that side, not that I am suggesting anything is wrong with it.

Whilst the 100cell CAT will cause a slight restriction, I know they will flow enough for well over 500bhp on a scoob engine. As regards to it collasping... anything is possible, although unlikely if it is that new. You could try banging the centre section from underneath. If it has collasped you can may hear a rattle noise when you do hit it.

I can't see how a properly functioning/mapped OE Newage ECU will not make the power of an aftermarket one at this level. The single most "part" of the equation that can make a huge difference imo, is the mapper themselves and not the hardware specifically.

Your OE ECU is impressive and the only area that I would suspect that advancements may be made with an aftermarket one is with driveability, but at your level I suspect that this is not an issue either. Assuming your ECU has all the megarom capabilities, you would need a very good reason to change it. This is assuming these features are actually being utilised in your map..... if they are not because of a problem you are alluding to with the ECU etc, then that is an area that needs attention imo, as this functionality can make a big difference to driveability.

Remember, I made over 500bhp on my OE MY03 ECU.... and that was even with 1150cc injectors and the standard sited MAF still in place. Outright power was never the issue.... driveability at this spec was. I'm sure that with more time on the OE ECU this could of been sorted (with mods to the MAF as well), but the oppourtunity came up to have a Hydra. Of course I have never looked back since.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

I will check the cat just to be sure.

The megarom not working is frustrating as I really wanted the in-gear mapping done to maximise driveability, and also a low-boost map. Not sure how to resolve this one

ZEN Performance

Shaun,

You of all people should know that you can't just assume that a given turbo will make X hp jhust because it made X or even Y hp on a different setup.

In my experience a given turbo makes more power on a 2.0 engine than a 2.5 with otherwise identical spec, sometimes the 2.5 is spectacularyl inefficient. But everyone looking to buy a turbo still use the best ever results to come up with their expectation, and many people come away dissapointed as a result.

Shaun

Iain has a very good relationship with ECUTEK, so you could seek advice there as a starter for ten regarding your ecu and the avcs problem under megarom. If it is an ECU fault, I am sure Iain could source you a replacement or repair. IMO it would be better spending a few hundred quid on sorting your OE ECU out, rather than spending a £1k on another aftermarket ECU.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Is it not unlikely to be an ECU fault since AVCS works fine without megarom?

I will await input from Simon on the megarom issue - I know he has spoken with ecutek directly and I believe he has tried everything that has been suggested to him, from a number of different sources

I presume I'm right in assuming that in-gear mapping is of benefit on this kind of build?

And, yes, I agree that getting the oem ecu and megarom sorted is better value than buying a new one. Just to reiterate, Simon himself has said I don't need one; he simply explained the benefits and has left it to me to decide, some time in the future, whether to go that route.

Shaun

Tim,
I don't know specifics about your ECU version and what should and should not work, but I assume that AVCS should work with MEGAROM on your ECU. I assume that AVCS works fine without MEGAROM.

If for whatever reason the AVCS is not working under MEGAROM, that would suggest to me it could be either an ECU software or ECU hardware problem relating to the ECU utilising MEGAROM code.

In-Gear boost control can make big differences to say a Stage 1 Newage JDM tune, so I can only assume it is a benefit to greater power builds. Ask John Felstead how much difference it made to his Stage 1 JDM STi. It improves driveability and can make for a quicker car.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Used megarom on a number of cars but unfortunatly it wouldnt enable the avcs on tims car, spoke to ecutek once I had exhausted my ideas who were helpful as always but suggestions didnt work.
I have however thought of something to try and will try again next time we can meet up tim.
Simon

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Been looking through some old threads (not here), and it's the boost threshold (I think its' called?) that's nagging at me now.

3300rpm for 1 bar and 3600rpm for 1.6 is reasonable spool, but with JGM's MD321T-equipped 450 bhp 2.5 hitting 1.6bar at 2800rpm, and marklemac's 450bhp MD555T 2.5 hitting 1.5bar at 2700rpm...surely something's still not right here?

Or am I just being overly concerned and missing the point?

Shaun

Tim,
You would be best speaking to Iain as he undoutedly has data on what that spec of turbo has produced on what specific spec of car during his testing, as regards to spool. I seem to remember him telling me on the 2.5 they tested previously, it was hitting 1bar way before 3k.... but you would need to check that detail with him. Again, you need to be sure of what spec that specific 2.5 was at, before comparing against your own car.

I know they are relational, but I always compare power / torque acheived at what rpm, not boost as a single entity.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Simon

Am pondering the boost threshold at the moment more than anything...haven't had a chance to check the cat...and might see if I can locate a set of OEM headers (having sold mine ) as it might be that the Tomei ones don't work so well on a 2.5 perhaps.

allza

Something doesn't seem quite right I agree but as you are the first person with this turbo it is a bit hard to tell. The fact that the lm450 is spooling earlier than yours on a 2 litre doesn't seem right. I think headers and decat and maybe see if improves.

ZEN Performance

You made sure the neutral position switch was correctly mapped and and working? I would presure so as that's the obvious one to look at.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Yes was working fine.. even tried it wrong just to check etc

Simon

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Hmmm...based on a RR day today it looks like the car was run in 3rd not 4th.

What difference does that make to anything?