Jza

Good point Mikey...

but my girlfriends loads nicer than yours!!

Jza

Gridlock Mikey

How come you never bring her out then?

I suppose you had to have something pretty in your life, cos ya car isn't (Sorry that should read, wasn't)

Mikey

ps How is Harrison?

Jza

Harrisons fine thanks!!



Just needs work on that exhaust ... he's a bit of a high pitched screemer at the mo... maybe TSL couls sort him out with a new back-box!!!

Jza

RichS

Richie1



errr...
Not really sure if you're agreeing with me or telling me I'm up my own ar$e.

My point was that the reaction to Driven in the "Driven...load of Bolxxxx" thread did exactly what you're saying...

I for one didn't have a problem with the result of the car test.
I just thought the programme was poor, that's all.
(And as I've already said, I would say exactly the same thing if the STi had "won")

Have we got our wires crossed?

Rich

Kempo

I love my Scoob, the P1 and the Evo VI (not sure about the VII though ).

I didn't realise we were supposed to like one or the other - must have missed it in the drivers handbook

I have always found it enough to be part of a group that are happy with their cars so too can't understand why so many took it to heart! Does iot make our cars any less fun to drive - NOPE!

Paul

chrisp

I cant get near the limits of my RA so if an EVO is higher so what . I prefer the noise and styling of the scoob so I drive a scoob. I love the banter but thats all it is do you really think a TV prog will influence buying if it does then you just dont undersatnd these cars. It comes down to it its personal choice and I chose not to buy an EVO, my money my choice and it doesnt make me a bad person .

I also agree with Adam and nicely put.

Neil F

I was more pissd off at the fact that I recorded the wrong channel while I watched Kylie and missed the whole thing!

So, not having seen the programme I will not offer an opinion on the cars, but I guess that part of the reason so many people are up in arms about the coverage is that driven is so notorious for it's unrelated, out of context, unrealistic and generally uninformed reporting.
We've seen the TVR Tuscan quoted as more desirable than a Ferrari 360 and a Porsche something or other (they all look the same to me?) thereby somehow gaining it 7 clear points in that category (where there was previously only 1 or 2 points between the cars) and resulting in it winning the group test by a whisker.
I've seen the "rally driving expert" Penny claim that the BMW Z8 was "hard to get off the line" while bogging down at just above tickover. She then proceeded to try to catch the opposition whilst changing gear as if she was out for a gentle trundle in a 1940's Scammell.
I've heard "rally driving expert" Penny squealing with fear as Penti Arrikola drove her at speed around a test track in the Evo6 Extreme (cool car!) while nonchalantly explaining the intricacies of 4 wheel drive (I expected the guy to light up a pipe at any moment).
And every week we see a comparison of "similar cars" put through their paces by a touring car champion, a "rally driving expert" and a plastic-cockney-used-car-salesman, all starting from different positions on a race circuit.

I don't know what the results and observations were in the program (although I can guess by the thread!) and I don't know how fair or otherwise the comparisons were.
Basically I don't care as I have a big problem with the program in general and lets face it, all forms of car reporting are fickle and biased; we've all seen this from Evo magazine's love of the scooby (so long as it isn't a poisonous import) to Quentin Wilson calling grey imports dangerous (because he's a car dealer and they devalue his stock).

Don't let it wind you up. Buy what you want and be happy with it.

Neil.

Richie1

Na Rich I was wasnt slagging anyone off in particular. As you will probably know this is just the type of person that non-scooby drivers associate with scooby drivers and most of the start of that HUGE post about a simple TV programme have dont nowt but concrete this fact with others.


It is no personal dig to anyone, just the general view.


People have got to remember that it AN OPINION. Everyone has a different opinion to whats better or worse thats why they make different cars !!!!

Just seems a minority have still to remove thy heads from thy ***** to see this

john banks

Agree Adam. I have a lightly fettled MY00 and love it to bits, but the Evo 7 is in a different class to all the Scoobies I have driven (but I have not driven the STi UK - need to, but I can't imagine being converted to be honest - too heavy and not enough power and yes you can mod it, but I'm certain you'll get more out of modding an Evo). Get rid of the Subaru brand loyalty - if I am buying again and the product is not what I want I swap brands. At the end of the day they are all fabulous cars, but Sam's Evo 7 completely blew me away on the short drive I had in it. None of these are the best cars in the world, but for the money the Evo 7 really is an incredible piece of kit in all respects. I will try an STi 7, but also please try an Evo 7 before you knock it - I think most folk with Scoobies will be astonished at the overall ability of it as it comes from the factory.

JohnBarnesAndHisGloves

Driven IS crap, but an EVO7 "probably" is better(ive driven evo6 + p1, but never evo7 or sti7, n prefered the evo6, p1 was good mind).

Agree with absolutley everything Adam says.

Cant belive people on here are really mentioning crap like service intervals to make the scooby "win", i mean, id NEVER on a modded turbo car change the oil any later than 3000miles after last change anyhow. Maybe these long service intervals are a factor in why scoobys have been known to die.

Also, as mentioned earlier, Scooby owners are really, by a long long way, the most HATED by all other car clubs...

Its not EVERY scooby owner by a long way, but a great many, give everyone else a bad bad name.
There are so many people up their own *****, thinking a subaru is the ultimate at everything, straight line speed, handling everything, and nothing can touch them, when its blatantly obvious its a very very good car, but not the best at any of the above (against its various "rivals", and seing as most cars of this type gets modified, it changes once again...).
Thinking that subaru is a prestige marque when its not (no more than a mitzi or a nissan).
The owners who are completley unfriendly to anybody but a subaru owner, and jus blatantly abuse or dismiss any owner of another car.
These people (theres a lot of em!) give the rest of us a bad name, and make everybody else hate us all...

As the previous posts on this thread show, most of us are friendly normal people, but as many of the posts on the "driven" threads show- theres a whole lot of tosspots with **** in their eyes bringing the rest of us down...



Cheers

JohnBarnesAndHisGloves

Oh, and "pro rally driver" Penny cant drive for ****, jus watch her, shes pathetic, her in the Z8 pulling off is a good example, shes a joke, she seems to not understand the point of revving a car high (god only knows what she makes of s2000 and various honda type-r's). She needs a big american V8 barge as they got power at 1000revs (the revs she generaly launches from for her "hard acceleration standing start" tests...

sack her, bring in tiff, he can drive...

Adam M

Aside from all the peopel agreeing with me, which is always nice, I am now a bit concerned.

I have always been the person who is not afraid to speak and write his mind, but all of a sudden no one is shootign me down in flames. I dont like it one bit. Popularity sucks.

I am waiting for some to accuse me of not having written this myself and plaguerised it from someone elses opinions, or at least lifted out of a book.

Must say, being supported ona scoobynet thread is quite rewarding in an uplifting kinda way. Thanks guys. Looks like I am not as alone as I thought .

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well you have to admit that they picked 6 people off the street who IMHO dont even own one of these cars (they didnt even know what that large vent was on the bonnet! ) shows you what joe public knows doesnt it
To be honest, given either one of these cars i would be happy, but given the choice and it would end up as the Impreza, sorry that you may think of me as a die hard but the truth is is that the impreza is a better car than the evo, it took lots of editing and shots of the cars flying past the saxo (and IMHO it was a fix cos whichever car goes first always looses )
What they did in the end was to make the scoob look less of a car than it really is if there are events like this then both should have equal rights and should be shown in their true light, even as JZA says that the evo is a better A-B car, i would disagree on that, ive an MY00 turbo and its not even in the same league as the STi when it comes to handling, but i suppose if you pick 6 muppets off the street and the closest they have ever been to one of these cars is a rally game on the pc/ps/ps2 then the more discreet of the two is going to be chosen, damn that woman didnt even know what a quick shift was for gods sake! (she must drive a ford kak or something )
Anyway, for a car thats not modified and probably only has a few thousand miles under its belt the STi did us scoob owners proud look where the evo (modified one at that!) caught up with the saxo! errrrrm was it the same place as the scoob by per chance 100kg and probably 40bhp down on an evo..... ohhhhhh potential

Tony

[Edited by TonyBurns - 2/22/2002 4:34:03 PM]

Goldfinger

At the end of the day, people have the right to express their opinion. If the world and his world thought the better car was the Evo who cares, the Scoob is also a great car and would not put me off it. Its down to individual tastes, requirements, needs, driving habits, etc. etc. ....

The Evo VII IMHO is a fantastic car and you can't take that away from it, but the STi is (although I've never driven one ... yet ) a brilliant car in its own right. I don't 'love' my Turbo any less after last night's verdict by the Driven crew, let them have their opinions .... also, I'm sure a good driver in an STi will trounce a bad driver in an Evo (same old stroy).

On an equal footing when the prodrive PPP version of the STi comes out and is roughly the same price (one thinks) the story may be slightly different but who cares ....

Both great cars and would be happy with either

Cheers
Phil

john banks

Do you think the STi 7 will be limited by the top mount intercooler? And the Evos tend to take a lot more boost before you go internals?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Anyway, im off out to buy a saxo vts as a second car now, damn it wont take much tuning to make it into an evo killer

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

John,
i dont think it really matters to be honest (unless your sitting in traffic for ages ) but even those evo lads suffer from engine failures with unmodified engines (theres a thread on lancerregister at the mo about engines blowing up ) so even though we dont hear much about evo's engines and that they are rock solid to modify etc, they still fail...

Tony

Adam M

I give up. I really do.

After all the talk on this thread it seems people are still entirely missing the point.

There are now people saying hooray, look we have a viable excuse the evo 7 was modified!

Completely missing the point I was trying to get across. It is irrelavnt which car it is that is supposedly better than the impreza, the fact is that most people on here are going to have o accept that it is simply not the best car in the world at everything ever.

The fact that the evo is the closest car for all comparisons, seems to be the reason impreza owners need to be better than it. Better or worse, is irrelevant, its all relative, its all subjective, it isnt worth having kittens over.

Modified? pah, I suppose the impreza hadn't been geometry checked, and was driving on remoulds!

Mr.M

Phew... what a load of ranting this programme has set off.

I own a saxo vts ('til next friday when i pick up an MY01), and i think it's a wonderful little car and have enjoyed every mile i've put on the clock.

But, it's not the car i've always wanted. For me the Scooby is my dream car, no other car does it for me not even an Evo (which i can afford but choose not to own).

Basically, enjoy what you own. 99.9% of the population drive around in mundane fords or vauxhalls and never get the chance to own either cars. We are lucky that in our lives we can afford to own such a car. Appreciate it 'cos it isn't going to last.

john banks

All engines have a failure rate Tony, you can't use individual examples to infer how strong or tunable an engine is. The intercooler is NOT just an issue in standing traffic - when you increase the boost the FMIC of the Evo will undoubtedly keep the charge temperatures lower than the TMIC of the Scooby. It is considerably bigger for a start, as well as in the "right" place. Also if you do fit a FMIC to a Scooby you would end up with much longer runs to get to it because of the position of the turbo. On the Evo the turbo is very near the intercooler. This STi 7 drive will have to be incredible for me to want one over an Evo 7.

There is the small point that the Evo comes with an ECU map and a turbo good for up to 1.5 bar with the cheap safety precaution of conrod bolt upgrade for the huge sum of about £70.

Simply on straight line speed Sam's standard Evo was every bit as quick as a P1 and had a lot more low down. I gather the new STi is slower by some way than a P1 - over 200kg extra and 14 BHP less! The UK STi has a power to weight ratio hardly better than a UK old shape Scooby. The Evo also has a quicker steering rack and everyone seems to agree it understeers less, pulls more lateral g and laps faster. It is even well put together inside, quite refined, and the ride quality seems no worse really than a MY99/00 UK Scooby. Small fuel tank, frequent servicing and insurance are less of a concern when you consider its overall ability.

mutant_matt

Adam,LOL - You *sure* you *didn't* get it out of a book???

Hate to say it m8 but I too agree with you I think a lot of other "good eggs" that have since left the BBS because it seems to be increasingly being filled with these morons, would also agree, which is why, in fact, that they have already voted with their feet....

Matt

EvilBevel

Adam, wasn't your rant copied from "Maximum Boost", page 45 ?



Theo

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

John,
You have to remember that evo7's come with 1.3bar as standard out of the box so safe to 1.5 isnt a very big margain really
Performance wise the VVC engine in the STi does alot for its low down ability, it does feel quick and maybe its not as quick as the P1 but with the PPP coming out for it i'd say it will be more than a match in a straight line for the evo7 (even my scoobs more than a match for an evo7 in a straight line ) But i feel the fact that only a few months back i could have picked up a titanium turbo'd GSR evo7 for 23k with 4.5k on the clock at 6months old tells me something about throwing money down the drain..... 7k in 6 months is alot of cash where as you can pick a P1 up with 10k on the clock, 1yr old and still be paying 27k. Maybe these are the new performance bargains of this decade (evo's that is) and id also like to see a dealer who is going to be able to fully maintain an evo with fully trained staff (hmmmm dont think so! looks like ralliart will be having alot of servces booked in there!)
Swings and roundabouts John, i prefer the 6speed quickshift and the excellent handling and brakes of the STi, its suspension is much better and not harsh like people make it out to be, one of the reasons the dealer i went to for my test drive had a guy come in and part ex his evo7 was the fact that it was too harsh for him (suspension wise and he didnt like the 115 miles he was getting out of a tank of fuel ) The Ralliart cars are meant to be better on fuel as they have re-mapped chips so loose some of that thirst for it but still..... 265ps and run on 95 ron fuel... not bad

Tony

john banks

Evo 7 runs about 1.2 bar as standard. 0.3 bar is about 5 PSI and over double the effect of a PPP so not a small increase in boost.

There is no way a decat PPP is as quick as a standard Evo 7. Even a decat PPP running 18 PSI is no quicker than a standard Evo 7.

The 262BHP is not on 95 RON. To meet Euro3 it needed three cats. Subaru would try anything to get the magic 276BHP like the P1.

You are talking about it needing a PPP to restore performance to the level of a P1. In other words it is slow.

Richie1

Adam, I agree that some of them are missing the point. Lemme try and re-phrase it...... subtley mind


FORGET THE RESULT ON DRIVEN !!!!!


The point of this thread aint what won or lost or to continue (in a futile manner) the comparison between Impreza and EVO.


The point of this thread is the fact that there are a LOT of Scooby driver who can't seem to face the fact that there are plenty of better cars out there and that the Impreza is NOT the best car you can buy.


The point of this thread is to highlight the amount of Subaru drivers who still live their life with their heads firmly lodged in their rectum !!!!!


Now get over it


Subtle enough ??


p.s. I dont say ALL Subaru drivers are like this but there are some as you can see





[Edited by Richie1 - 2/22/2002 6:33:22 PM]

NBW

Well I must be alone in thinking what an excellent feature that was on Driven last night.

Why? Three reasons:

1. Because when PM drove the EVO my wife said 'you can see it handles better than the Impreza'

2. At the end, when the 2 cars were parked together, my wife said 'that Impreza is ugly, but that other's cars quite nice'

3. At the point when PM said the EVO was 4 grand more expensive, I coughed loudly and the wife missed it

And thereby my wife unwittingly approved the addition of an EVO to my shortlist when it comes to replacing my Scooby.

Cheers
Tim

[Edited by NBW - 2/22/2002 6:43:49 PM]

EvilBevel

Tim, LOL ... erm, you are not ... buy... are you ?

Always listen to the wife

wilf

The fact that anyone can get upset about anything written on this BBS is funny enough let alone leave it in a fit of pique!

Dave T-S

Adam M said:

Adam, you are a complete tosser. How's that, feel better??

(Actually, you aren't, you are ok - me saying this will worry you even more now LOL)

john banks

Remarkably true that last statement. Why do people take it so seriously?

EMERGENCY EDIT: Oh $hit! I meant what wilf said not Dave T-S

[Edited by john banks - 2/22/2002 7:07:04 PM]