HankScorpio

C32 is intriguing. I have one of those compilation books of AMG road tests and it does very well but with some questions over the gearbox in it.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

3.0l flat six Legacy Saloon Spec B.

Performance

Maximum Speed151 mph Acceleration (0-60mph)6.5 secs Max Torque297 Nm Cubic Capacity (cc)3000 cc Power (ps)243 PS
Economy

Mpg Urban16.1 mpg Mpg Extra Urban31.7 mpg Mpg Combined23.3 mpg Tank Capacity64 l

£9k at the Subaru Dealer in Exeter with 22k on the clock 04 plate. Bargain

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

350z/Fairlady Z as wwsd said earlier

HankScorpio

Is the boot workable in a 350Z?
The couple that I've looked at, I seem to remember it was so shallow, I thought it would be near useless.

And on the "third car" thing - Clio V6 !

Hoppy

Damn it Hank, you're right about the A4 and DSG. (Note to self - only argue photography with Hank, he's easy pickings there ) I was led astray by an Audi salesman who answered my questions in a way I wanted to hear. But thanks for the steer on that mate.

Still going to try an S4 for size. It's not excatly what I want, but comes closest in something I can almost afford. Torquey 350bhp 4.2l V8 4WD in a semi-sporting 4-door chassis. Yum.

I've spoken to a few dealers and they are obviously pretty desperate to get shot of these big V8s at the moment - they are hanging around for weeks and months. And the new V6 model doesn't help. Yesterday I had a sales guy on the phone, out in the car lot in the snow with a torch and thick coat, checking the brakes and tyre brand of a car for me. He's desperate to find a hook that will snare me, and hasn't yet said no to a big discount, but will try and throw as much value-added stuff at the car first. And that's fine by me He's got a good attitude too, which is a nice change, and I'm pretty sure he'll genuinely do everything he possibly can to seal a deal.

But I've not even seen this car yet, and I'm not going to until I've found out everything I can. Including the bottom line. If I don't get too attched to it, I can still say no. Going for a test drive will be the last thing I do, not the first

Cheers,

Richard.

Matteeboy

I reckon the boot is quite useful. Yes it has a rollover hoop and isn't the deepest but you could still get a lot in it if pushed.

HankScorpio

S4 does appeal but then you start down the road of "just a bit more gets an RS4"

If you're looking at S4s, make sure you get decent wheels, the standards alloys look poop.

Hoppy

LOL so true Hank

Fortunately, although I would love an RS4 for sure, without any hesitation or doubt, they are still 50% more money. They are still way too expensive to run (guess I'd find a way ). And they don't do an auto. But damn me, if they were to drop to £25k I'd be in a pickle of a condundrum.

Richard.

Edit: Just did a search for an RS4 and they're down to £27k

Pumpkin

I don't know what I'd replace my C43 with for the money. I like the boot - means I can chuck in the camera gear and go.

Matteeboy

I've seen C43s going for silly cheap money.
Almost worth it just for the engine!

Hoppy

For a magic engine hauling a big boot, S4 Avant with 4.2l V8

With 80k miles for under £10k, and really nice 03/04 cars for £15k. That's the best part of £10k off screen prices last spring I'm test driving one tomorrow

Richard.

HankScorpio

Usual full report please

oxscooby

iTrader: (1)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/714982.htm
TVR tuscan speed 6 all the way for me, they sound soooo good.

Hoppy

You asked for it Hank! I bought that Audi S4. And this is the conclusion to my two months of searching for a sub-£20k car – a 911 C4, or M3, R32+turbo, or chipped 335i, but ultimately an S4.

The car I bought is a Tipto saloon, facelift 55 plate, with 15k miles. Screen price £21k, paid price £19k. It’s like new, full service, taxed, with 12 months warranty and new tyres. Being pre-March 06, road tax is only £200, and insurance (not being modded - yet ) is one third of what I pay for the modded Scoob.

The S4 caught my eye on a Top Gear repeat on Dave, where it beat an E46 M3 both in a straight line and also around the track. I didn’t know it could do that! Impressive. If it wasn’t for Dave, I don’t think I’d have considered it at all – most magazine tests reckon it’s just too bland with the implication being a bit of a slug, end of story. But if bland is faster than an M3, I’ll take bland over fun-but-slow any time. TG made the M3 look lary and the S4 almost boringly unshakeable, but I’ve had my share of track day sillyness (and loved every minute, I must say) but times change. And for every corner I hoon around at 9/10ths, I do 100 miles of everyday cruising when bland is easy, bland is comfortable, I can hear the stereo, and vanilla tastes good.

I must admit I tend to go for compromise cars that are pretty good at most things, if not exceptional in any particular dimension. The idea of getting a fun car plus a second cheap runabout has never appealed, and the S4 is the best compromise I could find. Sure, on balance I’d prefer the wonderful RS4, but that is manual only, sells for another £10k and costs a heck of a lot more to run. Extra fuel costs aside, the price of those massive tyres for example is scary. I reckon I’d be spending £20 a week on decent rubber alone. Out of my league.

The S4 is a heavyish car, not set up as a dynamic back road blaster or over-steery mad machine, but is fast, torquey, comfy, automatic (new to me), and 4WD. It is so very competent and accomplished, and 350bhp with over 300lbs/ft of torque is never dull. The Tiptronic paddle-shift box is extremely good, if not quite as amazing as the dual clutch DSG version. I was very pleasantly surprised - miles better than BMW’s clunky SMG shift.

I wanted something different to my noisy, uncomfortable, manual, but great fun Scoob (now reading 140k) while retaining its 4WD and four doors, and with as much power as I could afford without modding. I wanted a change, and it was either to go softer and more sensible with the S4, or madder and more dynamic, like an Evo. But I’ve done a fair few miles in an Evo and, fast and sharp though they are, I frankly couldn’t live with one everyday.

And the S4 is certainly fast, and feels fast too, which is not always the same thing. The M3 E46 and 911 996 I drove did not feel as quick, even though they pretty much are. Disappointing to be honest. It’s the big torque I guess, gushing out of that utterly gorjus 4.2l V8. That was a big draw for starters, and I’m not expecting to tire of revving it, feeling it and hearing it. It’s a great motor. Makes a 2l 4-pot turbo seem crude. Doesn’t use any more fuel, either.

The price paid shows something of how the market is moving. There are slightly cheaper cars out there, but not with the solice of official warranty and other small things that add a lot of value for me. This particular car has been hanging around the Audi network for about a year. It was even sold last summer to a guy who had it registered and taxed, but never actually drove it away. The asking price then was 28 grand and that’s the price it carried for some time. No wonder it didn’t move. It’s been advertised at £21k for a short while, but still no takers, probably because there are plenty of other similar cars a bit below that, and prices are still falling, but I couldn’t wait for ever. So, very politely, I offered £19k last week, and gave my reasons, but was turned down.

Then a couple of other cars turned up: one was definitely worth more, but priced the same, and another was pretty much identical in every way, but priced less. I talked to the sales guy I bought my car from about both of them, but he wouldn’t budge. Then out of the blue, the dealer with the other cheaper car phoned me and offered another £1,500 off, just like that. I relayed the news to see if it would get some movement on my car, which I preferred on paper. A few hours later, I got the deal I wanted, and put down a deposit (strictly returnable) as a gesture of goodwill, subject to viewing and driving of course. In other words, I agreed the bottom line before I even saw the car, albeit subject to some quite crucial conditions – like driving it!

To be honest, I think they were sick of the thing hanging around the car lot costing them money and were prepared to take a hit anyway. There’s no question this sale stands them at a loss, but at least they now have the cash to invest in a couple of A3 diesels or whatever, which should turn a quick profit and their bottom line will then be back on track. So we’re both happy… well, I am

I’ve had mixed dealings with all the sales people I’ve spoken to during this saga. Well over a dozen in all. Some were polite but snobbish, and looked down on my beloved Scoob (not that I wanted to px it, so **** ‘em). Two VW dealerships took me for a fool and told me lies to cover their ignorance. Another guy was incredibly arrogant and plain rude – just like all BMW drivers then Of the independents, I would have been happy to buy from any of the four I spoke to (indeed my wife’s TT V6 came from one).

But I’ve spent more time with Audi official dealerships (about five) and, with one exception, they’ve all been efficient, friendly, and keen to do a sensible deal if at all possible. Rare characteristics it seems, and there’s no doubt it helped me warm to the brand. It’s now down to their service people to pi55 me off

I never got around to speaking with any private sellers, simply because their prices were consistently on a par with, or higher than dealers. I was pretty sure they wouldn’t take kindly to being told their pride and joy was worth £4k less than the asking price. But that’s the kind of money off I would have wanted to make the hassle of a private sale worth considering. I couldn’t be bothered, given the plentiful choice at dealerships with good prices and warranties.

All I’ve got to do now is rip the ICE out of the Scoob and refit the amps and subs. That will cost a bit to do properly, but I like my sounds and in this car, I might even be able to hear them without needing to crank it up so far as to draw blood. Another big bonus.

Thanks to everyone on here who helped me get my head around this, and arrive at a happy conclusion. Other specialist marque forums can’t hold a candle to this place for brilliant in-depth knowledge and willing advice.

Cheers,

Richard.

HankScorpio

Enjoy!

And I know you're capable of pics so get them up!

Hoppy

Pics?

Audi S4 4.2 quattro

These will have to do until I collect the car. It's not my car though it's also black, which has been removed from sale. But this is one of the others I thought about, and the screen price has dropped £1k since last week - it was offered to me at £18,500. It has four new Eagle F1 tyres, which is nice, but as sod's law would have it, it's registered a few days after 23rd March 06, so tax is over £400 per year. Price is pretty good though, even with a few more miles than average

Richard.

oxscooby

iTrader: (1)

hoppy- think you'll love the s4, i just bought a b5 s4 avant and im guesing yours will be even more refined. They are great cars.

Hoppy

Thanks oxscooby. Pleased to hear While the earlier cars may not be quite as good as the 05 facelift, from what I can tell there's very little in it (mainly the new grill ) and the 03-04 cars still have that great V8, and are incredible value. Very safe buy I'd have thought.

A few years ago there was a Snetter at Bedford (Jeff somebody was it?) showing off his new S4 to a generally bewildered audience, including me. The fact that it was wasting 300bhp Scoobs around the track passed largely unnoticed.

But it was a mega-expensive motor then. Not now

Richard.

john banks

Sounds great Richard. You've also avoided the risk of an RS4 manual having been over-revved and all the hassles with DRC failures, and have nearly the same torque at a much lower peak

Hoppy

Thanks John I'm kind of glad that RS4s are still out of my reach, as even though the S4 is a better overall compromise for me. The RS4 is just sublime in my book, and looks fantastic but still subtle. Already an Audi icon in a way that the S4 will never be. I'd have been tempted by a cheap and probably high mileage car, and maybe a costly mistake in waiting.

Torque, now that's the stuff I like. The problem with the M3 was that it honestly felt gutless until you got it up past 5k, which makes going fast quite hard work. Fun for sure, but never effortless in that magic carpet way I so like in my 2.5l Scoob.

And as you say, the S4 is maybe a fraction quicker than an RS4 at low revs, and only really loses out when the RS4 gets past 6k and heads for that manic 8k-plus redline. 420bhp sounds great, but not much use if you always have to change down three gears to find it. I'm obviously getting lazy

Richard.

Hoppy

There's a cheap S4 just appeared on Top Marques, for anyone interested. Home

Don't know why I can't post a direct link to it but it's an 05 face-lift saloon, manual, blue with black leather, 25k miles for £15k dead.

No idea if it's the bargain it appears to be, but if it is, it won't be there for long

Richard.

HankScorpio

This one?
Auto Trader UK - AUDI S4 S4 Quattro 4dr Saloon

Looks ok apart from the wheels!

When do you get yours?

Matteeboy

I love the idea of them but not so keen on the way they drive.

A mate had an R32 (mk4) at the same time as me and moved "up" to an S4 - he reckoned the Golf was much more fun to drive.

He then moved up to the latest RS4 and got MTM to supercharge it. That is a rather fun car.

Hoppy

That's the fella Hank. If it's a good, clean car with no nasty secrets, plus decent brakes and tyres, I reckon it should be £18k screen price at a main dealer, maybe selling for £17k with warranty. So privately at £15k is tempting, if you like the colour Maybe the market is moving down quicker than I thought - I wonder if the owner has had a paltry trade-in offer following the valet the dash says it had on 27th Dec, and needs a quick deal?

Stop going on about the wheels! My son says they're naff, too. But I like them. Can't pick the car up before the weekend now, damn it.

Mattee, I agree an R32 is more puntable, but the S4 just thrashes it in a straight line. As for your mate's SC'd RS4, that sounds fun indeed. I'm going for twin-turbos though... and 600bhp

Richard.

Matteeboy

Hoppy - his is only just over 500bhp...

Enjoy the car - and the noise.

I think any petrol head needs a V8 at some stage. Now which one shall I get?!

Hoppy

Matt, that MTM kit for an RS4 is Eur44k Plus fitting!!! Makes the 450bhp supercharger for an S4 a right bargain at only Eur18k. It's gone on my dream list though, but I'm looking forward to wearing out a set of Michelin PS2s first

Yes, that V8 thing. I'd not really thought about it, but when I saw the V8 badge on the side I admit I did smile. I'm not too bothered what shape my horses come in, but if there's a choice

Then under the bonnet, I counted two banks of cylinders and 8 plugs. And 8 beautiful manifold pipes. Must be a V8 then, and according the Clarkson, the best V8 ever made. Showed it to my wife, pointing out that she only had 6 pots in her TT. She said, is that good then?

Richard.