Ste RB5138

A great quote, I love reading this thread daily, keep it up

It will be good to look back on in a few months, whether we are deeper in recession or not

Deep Singh

A bit off topic but I see there are mass protests by Total employees because of 'cheap' imported labour.

Riots last month in Greece due to unemployment

Civil unrest in Iceland (no supermarket jokes thanks ) due to economic conditions

If/when unemployment rises in the UK we are very likely to see riots due to foreign labour being viewed as taking british jobs.

Well done Gordon Brown

zip106

I suspect we'll see riots anyway as the hard-line looney left rent-a-mob have been very quiet for a while.
They only need one excuse for all out action and this is it.

Dave Prendergast (sp? TUC) and his mates will surely be rubbing their hands in glee......

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Hang on here a minute. While I am no fan of Brown and can lay some of the blame at his door shouldn't we also blame some of the companies themseleves.

It makes me laugh when you here all these people complaining that various jobs have been given to foreign workers as they will accept lower pay, but surely many of the British companies doing this are as much to blame for employing them as the government are for not doing somehting about it.

I am not so much meaning Total here as the multitude of small British companies who undertake this practice so the bosses can drive nice cars and live in big houses while paying their workers next to nothing.

It's the same in the housing market. Everyone blames Brown for the downturn forgetting that a lot of the problems with house prices is that they were over inflated due to people's complete and utter greed and the banks willingness to lend to people beyond their means.

Sure Brown is a part of this mess, a big part, but there are a lot of other people that need to take some responsibility here. Trouble is it's so much easier just to blame someone else.

njkmrs

You have obviously assumed they are lesser paid jobs !!!
Aldi have been one of the best paying employers for many a year ,20 yr ago ,paying something like £6 ph when everybody else was paying£ 4.50 ish .Not sure what they pay exactly at the moment .Although Admin staff are Very well paid .!!
McDonalds have fantastic career opportunities and a Manager position is pretty well paid as well .They also have there own developement programs for potential fast track workers .
I think you have stereo-typed this type of employer Im afraid .

These are exactly the type of people who will kick things off in the housing market .
Not your " Top Jollies" working in the city

FlightMan

And why were the banks allowed to lend to people to people who were overextending themselves?

Because McBroon went for light touch regulation to keep the boom going.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ah so because they could overlend they did and because people could overborrow they did and therefore no one is to blame except Brown

Funny isn't it how we have threads on here about how bad the governemnt are for turning the country into a nanny state by stopping people thinking for themselves by regulating this, that and the next thing yet when people are allowed to (like when borrowing money) and get themselves into trouble it is still the government's fault.

SN NSR logic

SunnySideUp

Indeed, Brown is responsible for the riots in France, Greece, Iceland, Germany, America AND for the free movement of workers within the EEC

SunnySideUp

You are SPOT-ON!!

The VERY SAME moaners who were moaning that the Government were sticking their noses into the lives of the public NOW say that the Government SHOULD have told people how, and where, to spend their money!!

Imagine the uproar on here if Brown said, 2 years ago, "we are going to limit everyones borrowing ability, by credit controls"??

Some people just find negative in absolutely everything - you see the same posters, the same moaners, their lives must surely be a bundle of joy each and every waking moment!!

Anyway - back to House Prices ...... are they at the bottom?

nixxon

Being of a highly optimistic nature - not yet!

SunnySideUp

Personally, I hope they have a way to fall ...... but, once that sun comes out I fear that the prices will firm up - even rise a small amount!!

Deep Singh

Yes, we are at the bottom now. There is only one way from here, as the New Labia anthem chants 'things can only get better'

BUY BUY BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SunnySideUp

Interesting Article:-

The Return Of First-Time Buyers - 30/01/2009

FlightMan

I was watching a house auction last week. Average sold price was 52% off peak.

Those still offering BTL mortgages seem to want a 35% deposit, that indicates to me where those lending the money see house prices going. Halifax average house price is £15900 - 35% is £105,000. That's where we're headed, although at over 4x the average salary ( £24,782 ) it may fall a little more. The market always undershoots on the way down.

I think what you're seeing is increased activity, sales being agreed, but then the property valuation is coming up short of the vendors asking price, and the deals collapse. Ironically banks and societies are now driving the prices down.

zip929

I think that the banks would like prices to fall.

For the future they will be retaining their own debt/risk with future mortgages.

They will no longer be able to sell them on, so they are going to be very selective as to who gets their money. Good old fashioned banking.

SunnySideUp

I would like the Government to announce a strict Mortgage Multiple Limit - no-one to be allowed to borrow more than 3.5X Single and 3X Joint.

The Government knows how much everyone tells them they earn, so they know what should be lent out.

The Housing market will then adjust property prices to suit the new borrowing abilities.

Job done ..... but, I guess, some on here will moan about the 'Nanny State' then

zip929

We all borrow more than we should. The culture for the last 15 years or so has been to borrow when you want something, rather than saving. I admit to being one of the 'borrowers'. Want now pay later.
Fortunately i was never greedy so my debts are small in comparison to others.
The gtreedy are now paying for it big time.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Agreed but half the people on here blame that solely on Brown's government. It doesn't make sense. Sure he and his government are partly culpable, but the greedy ****ers who borrowed beyond their means seem to be unable to accept any responsibility for their actions.

Chris L

True, but Flightman isn't a mile away from the truth. Any business as a PLC has as its first responsibility, the need to make profits for their shareholders. They will operate to the extent that law and legislation allows. Clearly the risk management procedures within the banks failed (or were ignored) and it therefore follows that corporate governance procedures were far too lax (and they are set by the government).

Now it is easy to see this with the benefit of hindsight, but it bugs me no end when Brown stands up and says he didn't see this coming. The guy was chancellor for a decade! He has made some appalling decisions (selling off half this countries' gold reserves at rock bottom price, raiding pension funds for 10s of billions, claiming to have beaten 'boom and bust' (and thrown out 80 years of economic theory...), failing to put aside funds in the good times etc).

If he truly thought he had managed to end boom and bust and thought that this growth would go on forever then he is an even big a fool than I thought he was. I don't believe that history will look kindly on him.

zip929

As you say they blame everyone else.

We are all responsible for our own decisions and we all did borrow like f**k.

The temptation for the shiny new car, tv etc.

Times will be good again. Just going to take quite a while I think!

SunnySideUp

Are you sure about that?

Is it not the FSA who were given responsibility for that?

The Bank of England was independant from the Government and they didn't see it coming ...... there were some who were shouting that a £Trillion in borrowing was too high, me included. But we got shouted down on here and, of course, the Government couldn't step in or it would be accused of being a Nanny State.

FlightMan

I don't believe I said no-one was to blame but Brown did I?

For the record. I believe;

1. Brown + the cabinet as a whole is to blame as he allowed "light touch" regulation via the FSA, then basked in the glory that was our consumer led economy.

2. The bankers are to blame, for chasing short term profits. They should have known better but without regulation the framework was there for the elite to get rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

3. Joe public is to blame for his greed.

I hope that's clear enough for you?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well the question:

followed by the answer:

implies it is Brown's fault the banks were overlending no matter how much you try and dress it up otherwise after the event.

Anyway thanks for this, much better:

Quite clear now thanks and as for the emoticon how very grown up of you

FlightMan

About as grown up as you sunshine, who replied to my post with a .

Anyway, don't be so bloody touchy. It's the internet, not a ladies tea party.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Fair comment now f**k off with calling me sunshine you dumb c**t

FlightMan

OK sweetie, let's call it quits.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Thanks duckie

nixxon

Don't necessarily blame the bankers. Yes they were seeking to maximise short term profits. Their owners, the shareholders- pension funds, insurance co's, etc - demanded it, to satisfy OUR demand for maximised returns on our investments. Any management that failed to exploit fully the opportunities available would soon find themselves redundant.
Possibly, many bankers realised the risks of the games they played, but I daresay 5x salary bonuses helped to ease their guilt. A LITTLE state regulation would have helped protect the banks from OUR greed.

SunnySideUp

There WAS a little state regulation!!

unclebuck