Focus RS - 25K??
07 January 2009, 08:44 AM
#61
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As father as had his name down for the new RS for some time and Ford have been pushing customers to put in their order before prices were even revealed, he had been browsing other marques, just to see what was available for about the same amount of cash, as the RS was expected to be.
Now the price is out(25k before any options), this places it directly on the door of a number of vehicles you could get a discount off from a dealer.
STi
Evo X
S3
R32 etc
The top two are imo, the best out for bunch with 26k to play with, but as he would be p/xing a 58 plate WRX-S, he has to take into account what he would get from the dealer.
The new scoob has certainly opened our eyes and the STi would be the best bet i reckon, but the RS being a new model and limited run of 4000, it certainly has a pull towards it unlike the others.
The question is, does the price tag seem too steap considering the rivals it's up against? I think it is, especially when you look at the back end of it. Chavs-r-us, but then the STi is no picture postcard.
The RS is still bound to drop in value after the first few months, but may it drop as much as the others? I know the 1st Focus RS didn't do quite as well as expected and their figures have stabled a bit now, but that looks a nicer car...more subtle and yet agressive at the same time.
Any views at all?
Now the price is out(25k before any options), this places it directly on the door of a number of vehicles you could get a discount off from a dealer.
STi
Evo X
S3
R32 etc
The top two are imo, the best out for bunch with 26k to play with, but as he would be p/xing a 58 plate WRX-S, he has to take into account what he would get from the dealer.
The new scoob has certainly opened our eyes and the STi would be the best bet i reckon, but the RS being a new model and limited run of 4000, it certainly has a pull towards it unlike the others.
The question is, does the price tag seem too steap considering the rivals it's up against? I think it is, especially when you look at the back end of it. Chavs-r-us, but then the STi is no picture postcard.
The RS is still bound to drop in value after the first few months, but may it drop as much as the others? I know the 1st Focus RS didn't do quite as well as expected and their figures have stabled a bit now, but that looks a nicer car...more subtle and yet agressive at the same time.
Any views at all?
I'd go for the Focus.
I would be pretty certain that once rolling it will be a match for the STI and base Evo - neither of which, in reality, are that fast other than the 0-60 sprint, which is about traction in this marker sector.
Who cares if some tosser in a 4wd car burns your old man off from the Dumbuck lights due to a traction advantage? Lets be honest, there aren't that many traffic lights in 60/70limits anyway.
Dynamically it will probably **** all over the S3/R32 etc in every arena other than traction. It will also probably be significantly cheaper to service over the years.
Whether he could live with the looks is another thing. I like it, a lot (in sofar as it makes the Sti look even worse) but its hardly subtle.
09 January 2009, 08:04 AM
#63
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Dave,
I'd go for the Focus.
I would be pretty certain that once rolling it will be a match for the STI and base Evo - neither of which, in reality, are that fast other than the 0-60 sprint, which is about traction in this marker sector.
Who cares if some tosser in a 4wd car burns your old man off from the Dumbuck lights due to a traction advantage? Lets be honest, there aren't that many traffic lights in 60/70limits anyway.
Dynamically it will probably **** all over the S3/R32 etc in every arena other than traction. It will also probably be significantly cheaper to service over the years.
Whether he could live with the looks is another thing. I like it, a lot (in sofar as it makes the Sti look even worse) but its hardly subtle.
I'd go for the Focus.
I would be pretty certain that once rolling it will be a match for the STI and base Evo - neither of which, in reality, are that fast other than the 0-60 sprint, which is about traction in this marker sector.
Who cares if some tosser in a 4wd car burns your old man off from the Dumbuck lights due to a traction advantage? Lets be honest, there aren't that many traffic lights in 60/70limits anyway.
Dynamically it will probably **** all over the S3/R32 etc in every arena other than traction. It will also probably be significantly cheaper to service over the years.
Whether he could live with the looks is another thing. I like it, a lot (in sofar as it makes the Sti look even worse) but its hardly subtle.
We know it'll be quick...no doubts about that, but the cost and added to that, the way the dealer/Ford has treated him, is very poor.
25k is a lot not to get any sort of discount and with a lot of people cancelling their order, secondhand values won't be great, if infact they even sell their so-called limited run.
I could leave a new STi parked near enough anywhere without feeling it'll be somewhat tarnished when i go back to it, but the RS? Nope.
Imagine that green one going through the Main Street in the Vale?
Faither was in Helensburgh VW just there and they had a fully specced R32 that WOULD have been 29k, down to 23k and thats without even getting into discounts. Thats A LOT of car for it's money and with that, it doesn't scream Ring times at you.
14 January 2009, 03:53 PM
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First driving impression of the RS here:
Ford Focus RS (2009) first ride | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online
Quick summary: it does torque steer a bit, and spins up in the wet. But is fast, fun and doesn't have a death wish
Richard.
Ford Focus RS (2009) first ride | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online
Quick summary: it does torque steer a bit, and spins up in the wet. But is fast, fun and doesn't have a death wish
Richard.
14 January 2009, 06:34 PM
#67
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That's not what the review says. Very complementary on lack of torque steer.
If 300bhp through two wheels didn't wheel spin in the conditions described ford would have re-written the rules of physics.
What it loses in traction in the wet to a 4wd car, a good 2wd car more than makes up for in many different areas. If you don't understand what those are, then you aren't really qualified to pass comment until you have driven one. I've owned front wheel drive cars that would make anything Subaru has ever produced feel distinctly second rate in the handling department.
Of course, the RS may be ****e, and not fall into that category of a good front driver, but I doubt it very much.
If 300bhp through two wheels didn't wheel spin in the conditions described ford would have re-written the rules of physics.
What it loses in traction in the wet to a 4wd car, a good 2wd car more than makes up for in many different areas. If you don't understand what those are, then you aren't really qualified to pass comment until you have driven one. I've owned front wheel drive cars that would make anything Subaru has ever produced feel distinctly second rate in the handling department.
Of course, the RS may be ****e, and not fall into that category of a good front driver, but I doubt it very much.
Last edited by Devildog; 14 January 2009 at 06:35 PM.
14 January 2009, 09:07 PM
#69
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FFS, did you actually read any of that link at all? 
You are more than welcome to come and drive my ST and see for yourself what 350 ft/lbs is like through the front wheels, you will love it, or you can carry on in your blinkered 4WD world.
You are more than welcome to come and drive my ST and see for yourself what 350 ft/lbs is like through the front wheels, you will love it, or you can carry on in your blinkered 4WD world.
14 January 2009, 09:21 PM
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Spoke to my mate, who works for Dovercourt Ford, over Christmas and he said if you haven't got your name down for a Focus RS you're not likely to get 1 until next year......
14 January 2009, 09:43 PM
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14 January 2009, 10:17 PM
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I've a feeling stilover said that tongue in cheek, probably from all the previous threads about high output FWD cars and torque steer, that people had never driven (in particular the previous RS).
I think he used to have a MK1 FRS.
I may be wrong.
I think he used to have a MK1 FRS.
I may be wrong.
14 January 2009, 10:23 PM
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Possibly some people are taking back their deposits?
I've since decided not to have one.
15 January 2009, 07:12 AM
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Yep, a lot of people have cancelled their order....my dad is just about to as well. Still waiting on Ford dealer getting back to us about his order...they seem to struggle to WANT to take full list price off people. 
15 January 2009, 09:32 AM
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It was written a bit tongue in cheek, yes.
TBH though the article did say it did still Torque steer, although not as much as the Mk1. Yet as it was written from the passenger seat, they don't know exactly how much Joss had his foot in. Plus, with the MK1 RS, using the next gear up dramatically reduced Torque steer. Overtake in 3rd on a bump camber ridden road, and it was Torque city. Same road, same speed, but overtake using 4th gear, and Torque steer was reduced.
Until the Jurno's get to drive it themselves we won't know for sure.
I still feel FWD was the wrong choice though. Going from a AWD STI, to a FWD Golf GT Sport, I was so used to just gunning it in second gear in any weather conditions. Try that in the Golf, and it wheelspin city again.
Yes FWD cars are some of the best cars to buy, within reason. 106GTI, 306GTI-6, Clio's 16v, Williams, 172, 182's etc etc.
However all these cars had between 120 & 180 bhp, where power/Torque would not overwhelm the front tyres. Aligned to light weight and a great chassis, they are fantastic cars.
The new bread of Hot hatches are getting onto 1500kg now. They need over 250bhp just to make them faster than the old school hot hatches.
The best RS Ford could make now, would be a Fiesta RS. Light weight with about 200-220BHP.
Last edited by stilover; 15 January 2009 at 09:33 AM.
15 January 2009, 10:23 AM
#77
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The ST doesn't torque steer at all, so I doubt the RS will do that much either.
Grip in the dry is unreal with mine, no wheelspin at all and only slight wheelspin in the wet if you really hammer it.
In the current climate, FWD was absolutely the right choice for the RS.
Grip in the dry is unreal with mine, no wheelspin at all and only slight wheelspin in the wet if you really hammer it.
In the current climate, FWD was absolutely the right choice for the RS.
15 January 2009, 11:09 AM
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3 reasons why the RS is FWD.
1) Joss doesn't like AWD.
2) Weight. The Focus is a big car now. The RS is going to weight about 1500kg. AWD would have pushed that ever higher.
3) Ford wimped out. The played it save. Scared of getting burned like they did with the MK1. Losing £7k per car. Adding AWD would have pushed the cost of the car up. They didn't think anyone would by an AWD Focus. They don't know the power of their own RS brand. A 300-350bhp AWD Focus RS would have probably sold stronger at £30k, than a FWD £25k RS.
Look at the Escort Cosworth. 15 years ago they were £26k. Sold plenty of them.
15 January 2009, 11:37 AM
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The ST doesn't torque steer at all, so I doubt the RS will do that much either.
Grip in the dry is unreal with mine, no wheelspin at all and only slight wheelspin in the wet if you really hammer it.
In the current climate, FWD was absolutely the right choice for the RS.
Grip in the dry is unreal with mine, no wheelspin at all and only slight wheelspin in the wet if you really hammer it.
In the current climate, FWD was absolutely the right choice for the RS.
The rule still applies - more than 200bhp needs RWD or AWD.
15 January 2009, 12:34 PM
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15 January 2009, 01:02 PM
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Okay, maybe a bit more than 200bhp but definitely no more than 250.
Steering and propelling a lot of power through the same wheels is basic physics daftness, whatever tricks your chassis has up it's sleeve.
The Focus ST is not a bad car (apart from the engine, I still prefer the old one though) but as with all sorts of cars, owners tend to slightly overstate the abilities of their motors. It is a front heavy, thirsty FWD car after all.
Steering and propelling a lot of power through the same wheels is basic physics daftness, whatever tricks your chassis has up it's sleeve.
The Focus ST is not a bad car (apart from the engine, I still prefer the old one though) but as with all sorts of cars, owners tend to slightly overstate the abilities of their motors. It is a front heavy, thirsty FWD car after all.
15 January 2009, 01:16 PM
#82
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fwd touring cars are just as quick as rwd.
On tarmac rallies, the fwd cars can be quicker than the 4wd cars
Granted, that's extreme, but it shows it can be done.
Just adding another perspective. For purity of driving experience, rwd is the way to go, but that doesn't mean front wheel drive can't be as quick or quicker overall.
On tarmac rallies, the fwd cars can be quicker than the 4wd cars
Granted, that's extreme, but it shows it can be done.
Just adding another perspective. For purity of driving experience, rwd is the way to go, but that doesn't mean front wheel drive can't be as quick or quicker overall.
15 January 2009, 01:25 PM
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It's an X50 spec car and the official weight for them is 1540kg (manual).
No wonder they're bloody fast.
I really did think I'd have a new RS but a mate's selling this Porsche in April so I'm having first dibs
15 January 2009, 01:36 PM
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As an aside, and I know you'd quite like a 996TT, I'm off to test drive one on Saturday.
It's an X50 spec car and the official weight for them is 1540kg (manual).
No wonder they're bloody fast.
I really did think I'd have a new RS but a mate's selling this Porsche in April so I'm having first dibs
It's an X50 spec car and the official weight for them is 1540kg (manual).
No wonder they're bloody fast.
I really did think I'd have a new RS but a mate's selling this Porsche in April so I'm having first dibs
I do like the 996TT.
Let me know how you get on please.
What year, mileage, price, colour is the one your going to test drive? Seen a nice Silver one at 911 Virgin, but I'm holding on until the spring/summer to start taking a serious look.
Been exchanging pm's with Billythekid regarding Porsche warranties etc (He has a 997 CS. Will also look at these, C4S guise, as they'll be newer, lower mileage cars. But I really want the power of the Turbo
15 January 2009, 01:53 PM
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The one I'm driving is an absolute pristine 2003 03 reg. model.
It cost £114k (the X50 option cost £8K
) new and has just about every option except the tiptronic. Colour coded all round but the only downside for me is the grey leather.
Exterior colour is Viola metallic (really dark purple) which I really like and is unusual.
I'll hopefully buy it but only because I know the history and the condition of it.
It's done 32K miles but as it has a non-Porsche battery and had one service at an Indy, Porsche won't put a warranty on it without it having a major service at about £1400 (plus warranty of £1350) so I might run it without a warranty and use a local indy for the servicing.
I may even get it up to Hartech for their warranty, but overall I'm not too bothered having it warranted.
Price wise, it will be about £40k, it's been appraised by a couple of OPC's and a few Indy's so I know the price to be ok.
As I said earlier, I'm buying on condition and history so I don't mind paying a bit more, and it will only be a 3rd car doing no more than 6K miles a year.
Will report back after the drive.
It cost £114k (the X50 option cost £8K
) new and has just about every option except the tiptronic. Colour coded all round but the only downside for me is the grey leather.Exterior colour is Viola metallic (really dark purple) which I really like and is unusual.
I'll hopefully buy it but only because I know the history and the condition of it.
It's done 32K miles but as it has a non-Porsche battery and had one service at an Indy, Porsche won't put a warranty on it without it having a major service at about £1400 (plus warranty of £1350) so I might run it without a warranty and use a local indy for the servicing.
I may even get it up to Hartech for their warranty, but overall I'm not too bothered having it warranted.
Price wise, it will be about £40k, it's been appraised by a couple of OPC's and a few Indy's so I know the price to be ok.
As I said earlier, I'm buying on condition and history so I don't mind paying a bit more, and it will only be a 3rd car doing no more than 6K miles a year.
Will report back after the drive.
15 January 2009, 02:02 PM
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15 January 2009, 02:06 PM
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Oh dear....
Autocar - Volvo returning to BTCC?
Autocar - Volvo returning to BTCC?
Ford Focus Really Should have AWD like the new Volvo C30 T5
15 January 2009, 02:09 PM
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It's the magnolia and Savannah ones you need to avoid - have a look at the green TT here -
Northway Porsche Limited | Stocklist
Thing is, every car I've ever had has had a black interior (FRS aside
) so having a grey one, which to be honest actually goes with the exterior very well, will be a bit of a novelty for me.
15 January 2009, 02:10 PM
#90
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Okay, maybe a bit more than 200bhp but definitely no more than 250.
Steering and propelling a lot of power through the same wheels is basic physics daftness, whatever tricks your chassis has up it's sleeve.
The Focus ST is not a bad car (apart from the engine, I still prefer the old one though) but as with all sorts of cars, owners tend to slightly overstate the abilities of their motors. It is a front heavy, thirsty FWD car after all.
Steering and propelling a lot of power through the same wheels is basic physics daftness, whatever tricks your chassis has up it's sleeve.
The Focus ST is not a bad car (apart from the engine, I still prefer the old one though) but as with all sorts of cars, owners tend to slightly overstate the abilities of their motors. It is a front heavy, thirsty FWD car after all.
Mine has circa 285bhp by the way. I've just been out in it actually and had ocassion to give it some full boost of a motorway, on a left hand uphill wet slip road, which then turns sharp right and off up another hill - I planted it all the way and it gripped, not one ounce of wheelspin or torque steer right up to 70mph
They are thirsty, mine does around 19-22mpg, but that doesn't bother me tbh, it's worth it.
All the ST haters really, really need to drive one with a remap fitted, and if poss CAIS, exhaust and IC as well - it makes a world of difference for circa £1k.