Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

SOME cyclists may do that, as do SOME car drivers and bikers. *I* don't. I ain't stupid... if I try belting past a horse and it spooks, I'm going to get a ton of horse dropping on my head and I'll lose that fight. It's actually WORSE when you're quiet as you are more likely to spook the horse. I always ring the bell when approaching horses from behind so the riders are aware, and I always slow down whether overtaking or passing by.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it seems that all cycling gear is specifically designed to make you look like a complete gonk, but it DOES serve a purpose. The helmet will protect you, and the lycra makes cycling easier (while making you look like the aforementioned gonk )

Just to add - no one pays road tax - it's a Vehicle Excise Duty, a tax on using a motorised vehicle on the road, not for being on the road in the first place.

Jamescsti

I can speak from experience, i lived near a stables for over 20 years, and held a driving licence for 10 years whilst i lived there.
Firstly I would say from personal experience the horse riders are the elitest one's, they seem to think when they are on the roads on a horse they own the road and everyone else is secondary.
To say I as a motorist am eliist makes no sense, how many people own cars (which in most cases are nececcary) in comparison to how many people own a horse ( a luxury item really) which is seen as more elitist really?

I notice that you still didn't answer my point as to do you honestly think Horses want to be on the roads with the traffic? I still stand by my point that they would much prefer to stay in their fields, and given the choice they would never venture near a road. Is it really about the horses rights or you and your right to take the horse on the road?

RussBoy

I was brought up in South London in the 1970's and 80's. There used to be a Rag and Bone man who'd come along once a month or so with his horse and cart, and all the locals used to stand by their front doors with a shovel in case the horse ****e across the street (which it often did). This wasn't because us South Londoners were proud of our streets, but it was a great prize as my Mum told me "People wanted the manure for their gardens". I accepted this until in my mid teens when I questioned the fact we actually lived in a High Rise council flat...

Leslie

Your apparent elitism came from the indication that you believe that animals should not be allowed on the roads, just motorist who pay road fund tax. In that respect, how do you feel about cyclists using the roads?

I have no doubt that the horses would prefer to be in the fields, I cannot answer for the breed of horse riders that you have in your area but the ones round here are polite and very grateful for the motorists' consideration.

It is not only about the rights of horses and their riders, but also about any animal which needs to use the road to get from one place to another-same as cars etc. really!

I also speak from experience, having held motor cycle and car driving licences for a good many years and from seeing horses and other animals on my local roads which are no problem at all as long as you have a little patience and a bit of thought for others for that matter.

Les

r32

C'mon, you dont really expect them to accept liability do you?

They are going to lose in any claim, but to deny liability is perfectly normal.

Steve vRS

Thanks for all the constructive comments, especially NXG.

Just for the record, not once have I questioned the right to ride horses on the road. They are road users as much as any other car and the road tax argument is not valid. By the same extension of logic, a Range Rover Sport has more right to drive on the road than a smaller car as he pays more road tax.

Steve

r32

I drive, cycle and motorcycle and always try to give great consideration for horses and their riders, why shouldnt we?
Is it a problem? You dont have to be a total **** all the time.

Anyway its like sail before steam, the horses were here and using roads well before the infernal combustion engine was even thought of.

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

I had exactly this set of circumstances 6 years ago, when the rider waved me past & then the horse reared up and kicked the car.
Their ins co refuted the claim from my ins citing some dubious case law, my ins co were useless and were happy to concede. Following some advice from T.C on here (he's a motoring legal advisor) and quoting a different case law they conceeded and settled it form the rider's ins policy.

HTH

D

Jamescsti

I'll try to reply to your questions one point at a time:

Animals on the road I have no problem with, I love dogs, plan to get another one soon, I also used to live near a dairy farm, road was full every morning and every evening with 30-40 cows going for milking, absolutely no problem with that either.
Cyclists, no problem with them as long as the bikes are correctly lit, from a safety point of view.

My experience of horse riders, some of which i do know on a personal level is that they believe they own the roads and everyone should bend over backwards to accomodate them, which I do not agree with, they are not polite, or considerate at all, they ride 2-3 abreast and complain if cars get too close, surely they should be in single file?

I think if you are honest the vast majority of the time horses are on the roads they are there for their owners pleasure, they are not going anywhere apart from back to the field/stable they originated from, I understand if they are going any great distance they use horse boxes or similar?

And finally- my patience levels are just fine, thanks for asking

Leslie

It would not surprise me that you get self important horse riders, as in all walks of life. Maye it is something to do with the area you live in. All the ones here in Devon are most polite and do their best to cause as little obstruction as possible.

You talked about paying road tax-or not, but you tolerate cyclists and every other kind of animal that you may see on the road. It looks suspiciously as though you are prejudiced against horse riders and are allowing that to colour your feelings in this respect. If that is the case. Don't you think you are being less than fair since you appear to want to exclude only horses and their riders from the roads because of your personal animosity towards them.

Les

Steve vRS

Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!!!

Well, the horse rider admitted liability but her insurance co. was willing to go to court. However, at the last moment, they withdrew admitting full liability and awarding all costs to my father who now gets his full NCD back.

One very happy man!

Steve

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So effectively they were just trying it on as is usual in modern dog eat dog greed driven Britain.

Devildog

And, in typical Scoobynet fashion, a thread about an obstructive insurance company becomes an attack on horse riders using the roads, mainly by people who appear to have little understanding of the highway code

Foofighter

IMO horses should definitely not be allowed on the roads.Even the best trained horse can be spooked,not neccessarily by vehicles,at any time.It's an accident waiting to happen.There is absolutely no need for a horse to be on the road.They can be ridden in the fields they graze in or the countless bridleways across the country.I have never had a problem with the riders,they have mostly been friendly and thanked me for slowing down but i still think its stupid riding them on the roads,especially these days when traffic is ever increasing.

Devildog

LOL

Its a nice idea, but its unworkable in practice. Unfortunately horses have to be allowed on the roads, and both riders and motorists have to show due consideration for each other.

Let us not forget what was there first.

Trust me, as a horse owner and with a wife who rides, she would prefer not to have to go anywhere near the roads and spends as little time on them as possible. But they cannot be avoided entirely.

+Doc+

Glad it was sorted.
Could have been worse...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Driver's escape from horse

Devildog

To get from a to b Dave.

Because road planners/builders didn't provide for bridges/underpasses and footpaths when they built millions of miles of roads across the countryside.

Because gates to fields inevitably open onto roads.

Because you can't just ride anywhere, irrespective of what people may think.

Because many fields grazing pastures are effectively road locked on all sides.

Because boxing a horse and towing it along road sections between suitable areas is not like sticking a dog in the back of a car. Its a major exercise, with a fair amount of risk to the horse thrown in.

Its not exactly that difficult to understand why horses and other livestock have to be on the roads from time to time

Foofighter

Because boxing a horse and towing it along road sections between suitable areas is not like sticking a dog in the back of a car. Its a major exercise, with a fair amount of risk to the horse thrown in.


So you think taking it along a road is less risky than this then

scooby L

I've always understood the horse has right of way (goingback to the days of more horses on the roads than were cars and has never been changed)

my ex's horse put two horseshoe dents in a Mercs door (double barrelled) and she was told that the guy had no claim.

Devildog

On the assumption that you are just a bit slow on the uptake, and not actually mentally challenged, I'll respond.

It is blindingly obvious that taking a horse up the A1 is a little bit different to a country B or C class road. Some roads will obviously be more dangerous than others and common sense must prevail. But the question was about having a horse on any road.

But yes, statistically, a horse is more likely to sustain injury in a box than on a road.

Foofighter

It seems to me that you are the one who is a little slow. But anyway,if (and God forbids it never happens,and i seriously mean that) one day your wifes horse gets spooked and decides to throw her under the wheels of an oncoming vehicle,i won't be the first one to say i told you so.
I have witnessed a terrible accident involving a horse on the road and have seen many other close calls and in my opinion it's just not worth the risk.

Devildog

Do you ride ? I doubt it. Have you ever boxed and towed a horse? I doubt it.

I aknowledge there is a risk. There is a risk every time she gets on him, just as there is a risk to you every time you (or anyone) get in their car.

Dave asked the question why do horses need to be on the roads. I replied.

Would you spend £000's on a performance car to only be able to drive it to the shops and back a mile down the road?

The fact remains that the vast majority of incidents on roads involving horses are due to ignorance/incompetence/arrogance by other road users. Riders generally will act "like they own the road" for their own safety, due to the attitude of other road users.

Steve vRS

If the rider has third party insurance, you can claim against it. I have no idea whether it is compulsary to have this cover to ride on the road but I would have thought it advisory in case the rider is sued for damages.

As I've made plain in this thead, I am in no way anti horse but believe that as with all forms of transport, the rider must face up to their responsibilities - which in this case they did.

Steve

Simon 69

+1. ScoobyNet is now full of the unwashed.

To the OP: I dont think that youre responsible here, at all. The riders insurers are simply attempting to evade their responsibility. Not particularly noble of them, but par for the course now...

yoza

Horse riding on a 60mph road, whats the point.

Is it for pleasure, or for getting from A to B ?

Is it a hobbie/sport or pastime ?

When I see a horse and rider on the road its usually accompanied by another horse and rider at its side, two abreast.

I see them often, usually on National speed limit country lanes, fast roads with farms either side, a place called Cronton/Childwall.

I tend to give them a wide birth, I approach at speed as to pass the danger as quickly as possible, I sound my horn just as I pass to let the riders know Im coming through......they always frantically wave back like uncaptured Roman archers.

And why are they always walking, surely if its a 60 zone they should be making progress, not walking slower than a fat, drunken bloke staring out a sloppy Keebab.

Seriously though, horse riding on a 60 road...FFS.

I have a friend who runs a livery stables and the work involved in looking after horses is huge, big time, big money, big head aches.

One girl had a huge vets bill because her horse ate a certain weed that made it sick as ****, also members of the public like to stop and feed the horses over the fence, anything from apples to mars bars, I kid you not.

In my uneducated opinion horses should be in a field or on a beach running safe, not on a 60mph road because the owner wants to put in some road miles.

judgejules

I respect riders and horses big time, its not like they go on the roads just to pee off the drivers. I'm sure they'd rather be riding across hill and dale than trotting down an A road to get to their "play area". I slow down to a crawl or stop if needed and wait for them to wave me past. It beggars belief how stupid some people are when it comes to general common sense.

There's a three lane road on my way home (the middle lane is chevron'd up with bollards at intervals) where I see two horses up ahead. I slow down to a crawl and the traffic behind follows suit. The riders wave me on and wave to thank me for passing wide (well over the chevrons and half into the oncoming lane as I can see quite a long way). As I move to pull back in, what do I see, the total c**k who was behind me accelerating to pull back in on a sharper angle and try to undertake me, cutting extremely close to the horses! I mean seriously, are some people really that impatient / mentally deficient in this day and age? There's not many times in my life when I sit back later and think wtf, but I just couldnt believe what they did. Some people out there are just dull as f**k, end of.

little-ginge

As with all modes of transport common sense needs to be applied when in control of anything on the road...

There are bad car drivers, motorcyclists, bicycle riders, horse riders, & horror - pedestrians!!!!

There is always going to be the odd few who dont take care or use aforementioned common sense, which then enrage other road users. If you are using the roads, you just have to deal with it - show who has more sense and skill

I had to do such a thing when I came across the two wimmins, wearing no reflective gear, horse riding down a narrow country lane, in the pitch dark last week. I nearly died when I came across them on a bend riding abreast, luckily I know how to apply my brakes and averted a serious accident

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yes the highway code doesnt really say much about horses, except this
215
Horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles. Be particularly careful of horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles especially when overtaking. Always pass wide and slowly. Horse riders are often children, so take extra care and remember riders may ride in double file when escorting a young or inexperienced horse or rider. Look out for horse riders’ and horse drivers’ signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver.

I like the part about the rider giving a signal to slow down or stop but glad its all sorted

Tony

Jamz3k

I live in the countryside, i hate horses and hate horse riders even more as they are stuck up toffee nosed plonkers (my sister is one of them) but how many times do you really run into them in day to day life? A bit of common sense even if like me you hate them goes along way.

What I don't like however after nearly crashing my car into a wall because of it, is horse-poo on roads. tis very dangerous.

Now Cyclists, thats the real enemy.