sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

its a sad day that it has all come to this and it took the horrendous death of an innocent child but if changes for the good occur then i will certainly support that


some adults should not have the right to choose to have a child imho

rob878

I wish i had your turn of phrase.

However:

It's not what they want too hear!

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

you come across as patronising and a bit aggressive, maybe that is the reason the replies have not been to your taste

rob878

No I think that the reason that i have found the replies not too my taste is that I thought the mob culture of the roman coliseum, requiring a "victim" to be killed, in this case "professionally" to appease the masses had long gone.

How wrong i was.

I have no problem with a bit of aggression as that and a few other things have been missing here for a while.

Just glad the infraction system has gone .

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

your observations are correct

and may i also take the time to say that just because the infraction system isn't here you do not fly under the mods radar. the more negative posts you make the shorter your life becomes

rob878

Oh so for having a differing opinion to others makes my time shorter Pathetic. Still would expect nothing else from one of the clique

Any time for crumpets.

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

err excuse me, i wasn't in the clique, that was the others


does being in the clique make you have a different opinion than those not in the clique?


everyone is entitled to their own opinion but if you chose to put your opinion across in a way that is not liked then yes

dpb

The peaediatrician should walk as well of course and worse

Mybe Shoesmith should learn how to be diplomatic

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

wouldnt of thought she could be sacked with no severance pay unless she was directly responsible for the errors leading to baby p's death?

there should be a few more following her as well id hope

Diesel

Rob, agree with you on general mob culture sheep thing, as do Ross and Brand, but this is an issue of far greater and immense importance.

The only way I can make sense of is in comparing to what I do, and in judging from my moral values.

In my industry there can be subjective creative views; should that shot go before another one? Does that interview work better here rather than there? Do you like this effect or that?. Should it be blue or green? These things in the big scheme of things are not important. HOWEVER, to make a living doing them, please the client, get more work and do a good job, one (me) has to make the right choices. Then multiply the importance of this work by 10,000 and consider it your chosen career's duty to make decisions regarding vulnerable individuals whom we all pay people to care for and protect. Fail here and fail much more.

I sense you have a sympathy for such workers, but their responsibilty to the weak and defenceless is far greater than anything I, or many here do. It should be a calling not just a tick box job.

You may be doing yourself a greater diss-service in associating the righteous taxpaying besieged public with any general contra party mob approach (and those that may want the speakers socks for garters!!!).

These state employees need to be diligent, caring, work past 1600 if need be now and again and use their bl00dy coconut ALL THE BL00DY TIME...

As a civilian I would go to the end of the earth to stop any dog, let alone a defenceless child, being abused; no salary actually needed...

D

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

well said, i think he may get it now

rob878

Some very valid points raised ,

As in every profession, you will have the ones that do the bare minimum and do see the job as just that. However after seeing the numerous reports been written late into the night in time for a court session the next day, the weekends spent typing incidents that would frankly curdle the blood of any right minded person, the best social workers are the ones, as you say, that see the job as a calling rather than just a job, and trust me working past 16:00 occasionally isn't a one off.

It takes a special kind of person to be called in to assist in some of these cases, remain calm, objective, keep the welfare of the child at the fore front, and not descend into the basal desire to exact revenge personally. Something that this thread as proven is very hard to do.

However actions like this will only serve to drive the good social workers from the fold, as unfortunately has been seen in not only the social work environment but also the military. You tend to find it's not the good guys that remain, they leave, and in their droves. The reason why? usually the ones who work hard, had the intelligence to excel at their jobs in the first place, are usually the ones to realise what a crock the system is and after years of simply leave, leaving behind the lazy and useless, who know that they are on a good thing, by doing the bare minimum and take home the cheque at the end of the week/month.

For every BabyP that makes the headlines, there are literally thousands of cases of child rape, battery, GBH etc etc that don't. Mothers and children hidden to stop the cycle of abuse. Parents at their in dispair and at their utter wits end as little jonny is frankly an uncontrollable little sh*t.

As for not getting it which would you like? 2 stones with points, a big flat one and a packet of gravel?

Maybe walking a mile in these peoples shoes would aid you, i personally wouldn't.

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

it still doesn't detract from the facts, they did not do their job properly. if they had then we wouldn't be having this discussion

JTaylor

You would have had a fantastic time in Salem a few hundred years back, Sarah.

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Not taking anything away from the indiviual case, but from a larger picture this case could the straw that broke the public sectors institusionalised work ethic. To put it bluntly, if, like the private sector under performance will result in termination of contract - rather than deadwood being moved sideways to drift towards their pension, then perhaps more effort will be put into getting the job done rather than making sure they're untouchable since their failure was done within specific guidelines.

If so, then perhaps those that really can deliver will come back from the private sector

rob878

Yes you're correct, stone them, stone them all.


Anyway sara will be along with a 2 line reply shortly, i've done this too death now. I do hope the sanctimonious and pious don't fall on their own sword, in the years to come.

Leslie

She was in charge of the department which was responsible for the gross errors and incompetence which led to the death of that poor little boy. The major responsibility of that department is the protection of children and there was little of that evident in this case as well as the case of Victoria Climbie.

It is all very well to say that they followed all the procedures, but what does that say to us? to my mind it is that the procedures were woefully inadequate and that there was no licence for the use of common sense here. How can all those people miss the dreadful injuries that he was subjected to over such a long period of time? How can a qualified doctor miss the broken ribs and the broken back for God's sake?

All these matters come back straight to the head of the department whose first reaction to his death was to say that everything had been done as it should and that no one was guilty of not doing their job and so there would be no enquiry into what went wrong! What kind of a responsible person is that then?

There is too much credence put on laid down procedures and targets these days, and those are an indication of managers who are incompetent at administering a department and also do not know how to run a workforce to get the best results. Terms of reference yes of course but they are dealing with people here and the only way to do that successfully is to make the officers use a bit of common sense and think their way through a situation rather than work "by numbers". Allowing that mother to fool them about his bruises and to cover his face with chocolate to hide his injuries is quite shameful and those people should be brought to book as well.

It has been reported that the head of department has been sacked and will not be paid either her salary any more nor will she get a pay off as we see most of these failures receive when they get the push. That is as it should be and I applaud the Council's decision. A bit more of that sort of treatment and we might see some effective governing in the future.

Les

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

its quality not quantity. your long drawn out posts don't make much sense when read by the general public and your grammar is terrible.

as you say, you have done this to death now


Jay made some valid points and i am yet to read Leslies post, just making a coffee for that one

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Are you missing the obvious point here Rob.

Sack all the poor quality Social Workers, replace them with a Police type service, if there is any hint of an issue within a family, remove all children and vulnerable people immediately and place them in care. Arrest the parents/un-carers, place them in prison until they can satisfy the courts of their innocence.

It's so easy

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

he is beginning to sound like a sacked social worker

its so easy for rob to understand but he seems unable to....

social worker had a job, social worker doesn't do job properly, social worker sacked


this is hard work

rob878

[quote=Leslie;8333823

All these matters come back straight to the head of the department whose first reaction to his death was to say that everything had been done as it should and that no one was guilty of not doing their job and so there would be no enquiry into what went wrong! What kind of a responsible person is that then?


It has been reported that the head of department has been sacked and will not be paid either her salary any more nor will she get a pay off as we see most of these failures receive when they get the push. That is as it should be and I applaud the Council's decision. A bit more of that sort of treatment and we might see some effective governing in the future.

Les[/quote]

I would suggest it's a person that realises that, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
You follow the government guidelines, paper trail followed, baby dies, your fecked.

Ok you don't follow laid down procedures baby dies, and your................?!?!

Which do you want?? you can't have it both ways?

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

you are talking in riddles

rob878

Ok I ask you to do a job. I give you the guidelines for that job, you follow those guidelines and *rse it up. I sack you for being incompetent.

Is that reasonable? or would you sue for unfair dismissal? I would hope you would and i'm fairly certain you would win, as you had followed the guidelines laid down but still the job went wrong.

Second scenario

I give you the same job and give you the guidelines, you decide the guidelines are a load of tosh and head off on your own merry way making it up as you go a long. Something goes wrong, I sack you?

Where is your leg to stand on?

rob878

To be honest in my self righteous rage i completely missed it .

Whilst I do, I honestly I do see the points that have been raised, i can't honestly see how a witch hunt is going to foster an organisation where the best people are doing the best job possible.

I hope that clears it up

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

who is on the witch hunt?

if this case had not been made public do you think there would have been sackings in the department?

do you think Shoesmith should have been sacked for her part in this case?


do you think Shoesmith should appeal against her sacking?

if you answer these questions it will help me understand where you are coming from, maybe

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

i dont think it will somehow



i have a feeling this is a wind up