catflap

Your right kev.

But i did expect more that 235 (when i compaird to your car, with only back box and filter- but your hight octain and seemingly better boost explains alot) 5bhp is neither here or there.

Any thoughts on my low torque? 209, im starting to think its my zaust, when i had it made he dude said if i go too big ill loose torque, i wanted 3", he wanted to put 2" so we settled for 2.5 (but as far as know thats standard size?) sooo confused
Seems im up on bhp, but i have lost torque from a standard car

If it is my zaust, then ill be needing to get a new one, and they are costly

[Edited by catflap - 2/18/2002 12:12:08 PM]

kevin stanton

Catflap

your torque does seem a bit low, but when you have a look at the some of the others :

D Hill 283 bhp / 216 lbf-ft (series mcrae)

K Stanton 240 bhp / 220 lbf-ft (uk 99)
R Edwards 235 bhp / 209 lbf-ft (uk 99)
K Saunders 232 bhp / 218 lbf-ft (uk01)
D Perryman 224 bhp / 214 lbf-ft (uk98)
D Martin 219 bhp / 210 lbf-ft (uk00)

apart from the mcrae thats got loads of bhp, but low torque.

all the uk cars have low torque figures, its the uk setup.
An increase in boost pressure would help, apart from that its a remapped ecu upgrade.

Kevin

catflap

Funny you should say that kev dawes is on its way

Should be a little better when set up

Do you run oc booster all the time ? does it make a big diff? (figures are nice) but in terms of drivability and feel?

kevin stanton

i've just run it for the last 3 tanks of optimax before the rr day.
with a ecu reset on the first tank.

i'm not going to use it all the time, £3.99 a bottle in Lincoln.
and i fill up once a week.

I don't get to push the car that hard during the week. i only live 5 minutes from work, the cars just up to temp when i turn her off.

Just out of intrest, how does a dawes thing work, i've seen quite a few threads about it, but never taken much intrest, maybe its about time.

Kevin

catflap

Ill be honist with you kev, i understand what it does, but not how it does it.

So what i gather is this.. its a manual boost controler, that you fit (apparently quite easy) and it allows you to adjust boost.

Need boost gauge, but what ive read states that fuel cut off will hit you at 17 psi (or there abouts) it vairys for diff models and years, but you can up your boost, to aboout 1 psi below your cut, and gain a a nice bit of gain.

I payed 81 notes for the dawes, and a air fuel device to keep an eye on fueling.

Not bad, im hoping to see close to 250 when its fittede along with the cat in my down pipes removed, possibly more if i look into the oc booster.

igratton

Yep - those figures look reasonable - all apart from darens 22b .

I was the afore-mentioned P1 owner SCOOBERATORS mentioned.

Last novemember my P1 made 315bhp and 279lbs/ft at PE. The bolt-on bits were as follows:

HKS Super Racing Suction induction kit with Steel intake pipe.
HKS 3" Racing Downpipe with std style flat plate turbo manifold
HKS Hyper 3" centre and back box.
HKS Super Sequential BOV.

Std. VF28 turbo and std boost restrictors.
Std. STI Intercooler and pipework.

NF Race Formula (1/3 bottle).

it was a cold day.

At nobles RR the same car made 291bhp/258lbs/ft on what seemed like a cold day.

Now I believe the noble RR figures because many a std car has made pretty std figures - whereas PEs rollers typically show 230(ish) for a std UK Scoob.

I think breathing mods (i.e. Zorst and filter) could reasonably give 5-15bhp gains (with torque figures moving up or down the rev range depending on bore and downpipe style). With that in mind the Noble rollers seem right (276bhp + (5-15bhp for breathing mods) = approx 291.

I am confused as to why darrens car was down on power - maybe he could comment.

Anyway - as we all know RR figures are just a useful comparison. If it feels quick to drive the car then it probably is quick.

How can you measure +/- 10bhp difference between the cars on the road ??? not very easily thats how

LOL

Ian.

SCOOBERATORS

Hi ian not seen you for a while. I agree with what you have said mate.
Darren was telling me he has had a new ecu which probably needs amendments.

I can`t understand why people think subaru`s can gain lots of bhp from small mods.These cars are not like cosworths where you can gain has much has loads of bhp for very little money + chips.

Look forward to seeing you, If your not working to hard.

Richard....

salsa-king

Richard
you'll find a Uk Turbo in standard form (run in) will give over 220bhp instead of the 214bhp it states in the Subaru book!
i think SUBARU underesatimate the TRUE bhp as to keep the insurance group down at 17!!!

i'll give Noble a go, i'll see wot mine gives out!


Do u think PE over BHP your car??

Phil

SCOOBERATORS

Never been down to PE.

I would take it down if there was a RR Sesion booked.But the one which is being organised at the moment is booked up.

Never mind I would like to play with the car a bit more anyway.

Doc@IlsonIlson

mmmm, do i here a bit of "bottom end" work???

patswrx

Hi guys
just a quick thanks to every one for a great day out .
nice to put some faces to names,
A very well organised day .
With free coffee you car'nt complain at that.
cheers pat

igratton

Hi mate.

as always flat out at work

I think it will be interesting to go back to PE in similar climates when their rollers have been re-calibrated.

Its 'impossible' to recreate the exact conditions between 1 run and then next. There are far too many variables changing all the time:

every engine is different - some cars just refuse to make power.

constant supply of good quality fuel to each injector

constant supply of high density cold air to the intake (impossible after the heat soak the engine suffers from just one power run)

constant adjustment of the jecs ecu on standard cars

constantly changing MAF and lambda readings between each run (I think a real techie would probably agree that lambda sensors actually become less accurate over time - and need replacing - esp on cars without cats running too much of certain types of octane boosters).

the fact the car hasn't got the airflow on the rollers (my car holds between 1.1 and 1.2 on a rolling road in 5th - it hit 1.5 bar at bruntingthorpe whilst accellerating from 135mph and then it cut out LOL)

its all too confusing....but its fun.

1/4 mile runs are a good indication - but again too many variables (reaction time, gear changes etc).

Ian.
(Non-technical long haired person - not a white lab coat in sight).

SCOOBERATORS

Doc would I do thing like that .

CraigH

Catflap.

You can't compare results on Rolling Road "A", when your car is std, to Rolling Road "B" if you've changed something.

If you've never been on Nobles Rolling Road before, how can you say you are disappointed with the figures? If you don't know what the power was as std then theres nothing you can compare them to.

Nobles Rollers seem fairly accurate by most of the cars I've seen on there - they are not flattering that's for sure, but wouldn't you rather knoww the real power than a slightly exagerrated one.

Or is it that ego thing again?

catflap

Craig I think you have misunderstood.

I am concerned with the low torque on my car, and it is low, there is no t opinion here, it is lower than a standard scoob, quite simply I want to know why.

The problem is with my car, I am searching all avenues, and scientifically (as much as I can) eliminate each variable that I have any given knowledge about.

I honestly don’t even understand your ego concept, the car is for me, I would have been equally worried if I had been the only one there, and I don’t wander around telling people about the power of my car. Im simply not on the same wave length as you mate.

But if my car is ill, I would like to fix it, and how can I fix it if I don’t enquire about the symptoms???? There is no ego in this doctrine, just an interest in my car.

Your right as far as flattening power goes, its not an indication of the car (and this relates to my whole ethos of getting it tested…..IS MY CAR DOOING WHAT IT SHOULD?) Flattering figures are little use to you, but accurate figures that show you are certainly low in the power depo. Well they are priceless info, I find it impossible to tell the diff in such small amounts of power, but wouldn’t it be nice if I could twist a ****, and so something here or there and unleash 20-309 lbt or torque- WOW and not for figures sake, but for driving shove in your seat sake, something tangible that I can enjoy, and say, yeh this is quicker than yesterday, that was money well spent. (hay im a teacher, have you seen the wages we get, lol I got make every penny count)

Hope im a little more clear no ego, just interest and concern in my car (it simply is not in my persona)

CraigH

Catflap,

Theres only one thing you can do then - once the basics have been checked that theres nothing wrong with your car.

Put the std bits on, then get a power check. Add the modded bits one by one and see what happens.

If you want gains, the mid and back box really don't make a great deal of difference - stick a new downpipe on.

I kinda understand you - even though you are a teacher

catflap

Yeh some good advice.

I figured on a down pipe soon , i have already ordered my dawes, im hoping this will bring the powere up a little.

I would certainly be back for another RR day, to see the results, and the impact they had on the car. Would like to stick with JN, for the simple fact that the consensus of opinion is that its pretty accurate (not flattering) most of us agree , that’s good.

kevin stanton

Catflap
I'm going along the same lines as you, i'm going to purchase a matching centre pipe and then book it back in to J.N.'s for a before and after fitting power run.

I need to get my ambient engine temperature down as compared to saturday (36 degrees). Quite a bit higher than all the other cars that ran.

Kevin.

kevin stanton

Catflap,
Let us know how you get on with the dawes thingy. Sounds like a useful bit of kit.

Kevin

Kev S

Guys,

I'm up for a re-run if someone is arranging it. Dealer is having the car in Thursday so hopefully I will find the problem, then I will need to prove it on the RR.

Kev S

Timo

Had mine checked today and it seems that the "oxy sensor" (just after the turbo on the downpipe) has packed its bags and gone to 'BANZAI' heaven in the sky.

nother one coming 2morrow!!

Yipee

Tim

dpcc

Kevin,

My air temperature on saturday was showing at 31deg .... not much different to yours .... would be interesting to know what others were... I think I remember seeing Rich's was 13deg for his 317bhp.

David P
UK98

kevin stanton

as far as i can remember, the majority were 20ish or below.

Kevin

catflap

If we can get another day booked in for about 3-4 weeks, most of us will have had time to fiddle, i shall try get my dawes fitted andup the boost a little , ittle give us a reosanable comparison to its gains.

I sure would like another run if any ne fancys seting it up

subster

22 degrees

dpcc

Could the air temp be affected by how long the engine was running before it was actually run on the rollers ??

Mine was running for about 20mins before it went onto the rollers.

David P
MY98UK

andrew h

15 degrees and 296 bhp
I'm booking mine in at Nobles for a unichip next week
Andy

subster

Andy what price did they quote you for unichip, did they knock any off. I was at the rr si james

andrew h

I didn't book on the day mate, I have been toying with the idea for the last couple of days.
Will ring them tomorrow to see if any discount still available.
Anyone interested in a group buy?
Andy

SCOOBERATORS

[Edited by SCOOBERATORS - 2/19/2002 8:54:15 PM]