OllyK

It costs so much due to the minimum wage, you have to pay the carer £5.73 p/h which equates to just over £11K pa. for a 37.5 hour week. So if you want to have child care, you need to have a spare £5-6K on your salary.

But then I suspect most people on here know my view on having kids.

Mitchy260

Im £42 a day to put my nipper in nursery

Mitchy260

No, please enlighten

Mitchy260

They normally work on a ratio of 3:1 for the younger (6-24mths) and 5/6:1 for the older.

So in the nursery that i use, £210pw x 3children = £630pw. The nursery nurse would probably earn around £275 of that gross, leaving the remainder as nursery income-business expenses.

Then in the ratio of 5/6:1 for the older kids, the nursery would obviously make a lot more.

Women are not particularly high earners so the majority of the time, it doesn't make sense to go back to work after maternity leave.

The government instead of taking tax from this person through them working, now need to give her benefits (If single) so its a double whammy effect on the government.

OllyK

If you can't afford them, don't have them.

Mitchy260

Agree with you there

Geezer

Unfortunatley, if that mantra had been followed by our parents and grandparents, 99% the worlds population would not be here

Then again, would that be a bad thing?

geezer

Leslie

Do you think however Pete that it would be even better if so much of our tax was not thrown away on profligate and useless government spending which does the rest of us no good at all, and in many cases are actually counter productive? Concentrate on the priorities of course, but bin the sacred cows!

Do you not also think that there should be government policies which actually encourage people to find work instead of relying on benefits and also which don't encourage young people into that kind of culture. Do you think it should be necessary to pay schoolchildren £30 a week to stay in school?

Allowing the tail to wag the dog is a poor way to run a railway!

Les

OllyK

I'm not sure that's true - the welfare state is relatively new in this country and in many others isn't at anything like the level of the UK. So certainly a couple of generations ago, that had to be the consideration of parents, could they provide for their family.

And no, it probably wouldn't be such a bad thing.

PeteBrant

I think that obviously any waste should be looked at - But we don't know how much is actually being wated. Of course The Sun andThe Mail highlight
some sensationalist claptrap, but thats all to sell papers, and often has very little to do with the truth of the matter.


And this is exactly what I mean by sensationalist claptrap. Kids aren't paid £30 "to stay in school".

EMA is there for kids, who come from household incomes of less that £30,000 ( it might actually be less than that) and go into further education. To get EMA they have to be on time every single day, and not be off sick, or not turn up. It encourages a work ethic. They get bonuses if they do well in exams. It is there so kids from poorer families are not under pressure to go straight into work rather than try and go through the college/uni route. It is an excellent system.

Benefits do not encourage people not to work - You can tell this by the number of people working vastly out numbering those not working. Of course you get some people swinging the lead. But from this place you would think *everyone* is taking the ****, and to be frank, that is just plain bollocks.

c-o-l-e

It's just one example of a job that has become non viable, that may have been sustained (perhaps only short term) by tax cuts.

Martin2005

Is this supposed to be serious , or am I missing the irony??

PeteBrant

What? How would tax cuts help? The reason Milkmen effectively died off, was because supermarkets effectively started selling milk at cost. Not tax cut in the world is going to help someone make a profit when you sell something at cost.

salsa-king

it all boils down the the fact the cost of living is so much.

whether you earn £15k a year or £300k a year.
That £999 flat screen tv cost the same to both 'earners' and has the same VAT rating.

Are people saying that if you earn more you should also pay a higher rate of VAT on goods because you can afford to???

salsa-king

good point.

salsa-king

eeerrrrrr you said it not me lol

salsa-king

you are right.... those who earn alot no doubt also put their kids through private school too.


also peeps on mid level wages (maybe like a lot on SN) don't get hand outs for uni etc







does the government make people 'sate dependent', just to get their vote at the next election?





There is no answer to this, but i feel there are a lot of us workinmg hard who can't get help with things that would just releve some 'presures' we have at this moment in time.

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Not true, our childminder is £3 an hour. She has more than 1 kid to look after so earns way more than minimum wage. Nice views on having kids, it doesn't work like that though and there is never going to be a time when you can sit down with the O H and say "we can afford a kid now lets go for it"

Back to the OP's question, yes I belive it does. I know of a lass who had a baby so she could get her own house. It's Unfortunate being of this sort of mentality means you can still breed.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Said this before and the problem is what you highlighted at the top of your post too many rights not enough responsibilities.

Personally i would scrap welfare payments for the long term scrounge. They would be fed at a cafeteria or have fresh veg delivered. No actual cash.

They would get a government issue table, sofa and maybe a freeview standard TV. Basically everything they need to survive but nothing else and certainly no cash for tabs booze etc. Vouchers become money unfortunately so those are out too. Extreme but you get the point.

There should be a stigma with being a dole scrounge. and the Married allowance is a good one. Make it important for families to be together.

This welfare system, having kids because it gets you a house or more money and not because you want them for me has to be one of the key causes of things like the Baby P tragedy.

Is it me or has it all gone a bit Daily Mail?

5t.

GC8

Some of the stupid posts in this thread have made me laugh out loud.

logiclee

Around half my salary is taxed at 40%, to be honest I'm not too bothered about that. My nephew works 60 hours a week on minimum wage, he's not bright but works hard, pays for his own flat and it would be unfair for him to contribute at the same level as myself. If he was made to contribute at 27% then he'd be better off on income support in a council flat.

Child allowance or whatever it's called now does wind me up though. I'm all for helping small familes but the current system does encourage the low lifes to live off the state.
I would adopt something similar to China although not as extreme.

My solution would be.

1 child - receive an allowance.
2 children -continue on the same allowance but do not increase it.
3 children - stop all allowances. Having this many children is a choice and you should not expect others to pay for your choices.

Cheers
Lee

EddScott

Actually thats the one bit of daily mail-ism I agree with.

I've actually heard teenage girls discuss pregnancy on the basis of getting a home and money. I've had people talk to me on the basis of having more kids equals more money.

I recently had a young girl who is some relative of my wifes asking why we only had one child. Her justification was "Well, you have a house?"

What the hell does that mean? Nothing about our careers being of importance, not to do with the added cost, no. We had a house so therefore why don't we pop the buggers out ***** nilly.

salsa-king

now you've put a spanner in the works lol

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if the Alan B'stard logic would work

If you don't pay council tax, you don't get to vote

Would certainly change some policies, lol

logiclee

Missed out the word "not"

Now edited my post.

Cheers
Lee

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm from a 'poorer' family and I got no handouts for university as such. Yes I got a student loan to help me through, but that needs to be repaid. All fees had to be paid in full.

As for hardworking people getting nothing, which could help relieve pressures... I am not entitled to a penny in 'help' despite me and my partner being on pretty crap wages to say the least. Our outgoings will be similar to many people on here in terms of shopping/bills etc. By your previous suggestions, my £191 takehome/wk would be more like £150. Going by that, I would become one of those people who would be better off having a child and fleecing the system for everything I could, hence in the long run, costing higher earners more supporting me to do nothing, than just paying more into the pot in tax, as some people have to do the crap jobs. At least us low earners are still working and paying in, albeit less, due to lower income.

I'm not about to go into the whys about me being in a crap job to a bunch of strangers, but believe me just becasue I don't earn alot, doesn't mean I don't work bloody hard. And think, I'm doing, as many others, a job that has to be done, one you guys wouldn't maybe want to, but I serve those and take crap from those higher up the working ladder for unfortunately not alot of money.

Sorry for ranting.

GC8

I thought that we had agreed that you were getting a better job?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Not yet unfortuately.

Still trying though. Until then I will work on where I am.

c-o-l-e

For the third time...

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

I also feel it's unfair to label everyone in a council house as "scum" From my experience down here when serving my electrical apprenticeship back in 99-2000. I'd say 70% were in employment 25% were unemployed and then you had the hardcore 5%

Those hardcore 5% accounted for around 50% of our call outs, whether it was they had smashed up the sockets in a pi ssed up rage, or they had spent all their money on **** and had no money to top up the leccy meter.

It's quite amazing how even the roughest estates, it was only 1 or 2 family's bringing the whole place down. It is this minority that also use up the majority of police resources as well.


This was nearly 10 years ago though, so maybe it's all change