Superstition
1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2. a. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
c. Idolatry.



Belief in God/Jesus is demonstrably the same as superstition.

As for guilt, it's just an evolved emotion, like any other.

Geezer

 

Freudian slip there Olly? Shouldn't it have been farther?

Geezer

 

Thanks, but I didnt ask for an explanation of "superstition", I asked "those who don't believe in God", do you have any superstitions at all?

As for guilt, at least last time when I asked for an explanation of "sadness", I got a half decent answer.... not a general, "it just evolved into it"

 

Nope, i can't think of any speaking personally. I don't believe in fairies, Santa Claus, unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot or anything similar either.

 

I'm perplexed why the emotion of guilt should be attributed to "God". Why that one? Some sad ***** in this world feel no guilt whatever in how they live their lives, in fact i'd say society has become a LOT more selfish over the past few decades? What's your explanation for that? God's decided it's not quite so important to feel guilt now? Come on, listen to yourself.

 

So you've never crossed your fingers for good luck, never thought it lucky if you find a 4 leaf clover, ever opened an umbrella inside a house and thought...oops..
blowing candles out on a birthday cake and making a wish, breaking a mirror and thinking....oh oh....

 

I'm not saying i've never done it, no, but it's absolutely not a part of my life as an adult. You could stand 100 ladders up in line and i'll walk under every one of them for you. Would that help?

I refused to join the Masons on account of not being able to live a lie about my absence of religious belief. To my Dad's dismay. But i cannot be untrue to myself. I'd urge YOU to be true to yourself and realise you CAN be a good human and live a very moralistic life without piling into the greatest fairy story mankind has ever invented.

 

This been an interesting section of this thread.

Olly, I have enjoyed the discussion, I think we have both made valid points on both sides of the argument and taking note of Lisa's very sensible post, it is obvious that we each have our own opposing basic belief and we are not going to accept each other's ideas from that point of view.

You know of course that I also think along scientific lines and am just as interested as you are about the real reasons for how things happen. I do not think of course that is the whole answer, but I am perfectly happy to accept what has been discovered factually and have not found anything in all that to change my thinking about the existence of a superior being of some form or other.

I am glad that neither of us has felt the need to descend into any kind of unpleasantness. I have said before that disagreement over a subject is not necessarily a reason to dislike a person. If we ever meet I will be only too pleased to stand you a drink

I see no point in us continuing anyway. I respect your right to your views and would hope you feel the same way about mine.

Les

 

"come on listen to yourself"??! These are the exact people who reject God/ dont believe in God,people who need God. As already mentioned, although religion isnt the main subject of this topic, often religion helps to lead bad people to live a better life... God didnt create all of us, in such a way, that we would all just automatically praise him and believe in him without any doubt.
We were given a free will, but also shown many examples of God, so those who believe in him shall reap the rewards in heaven, those who dont, will not.

Guilt, is where you do something bad, then fear that something bad might come back to you.... Why do you fear something coming back? Its just like a superstition, sometimes the results of guilt can be more real, especially when the person you did something to finds out it was you.....

But often it doesnt involve just one person, but for example doing something bad amongst a load of people, can easily be covered up as opposed to doing it to one sole individual... you might never get found out, but you would still feel guilt (the half decent people among us would at least)

Guilt is a good emotion, that helps keep many people on this earth decent...

 

No i can't accept that my guilt is always borne out of a fear of what might happen to me in return. It's usually just a conscious feeling that i've done something not 100% fair, moral or whatever. But the crucial thing is, that even without a reliance on any God, i still realise that i've acted in such a way. I don't need a religious code to make me understand what "proper" human behavious should be - to me it's just so obvious. Okay write it all down in the form of a big book if it helps the hard of thinking, but don't say it's impossible to live within that very framework if that book didn't exist. It patently is!! So if it's possible for some people, it can be possible for all people, should they have the strength to seize control of their humanity.

My point about listening to yourself is that it frustrates the hell out of me why you can't see the irony of believing guilt is a God-given attribute, given that guilt within society in general, as i mentioned, has declined over recent decades, absolutely no doubt about that at all. So how can you continue to worship a God who seems to have varying degrees of application of guilt amongst humans? It is totally and utterly illogical!!

 

Some interesting points there you mention yourself that "your guilt doesn't ALWAYS come from a fear of what might happen to you".... So those times when it does, what are you fearing?

You dont need religion to be a good person. People who have a brain and a heart, act the right way instinctively. Others watch and learn from the peole around them, like animals... (apart from lemmings ) Some people realise their faults, and religion helps them resolve their issues. I live my life in a good way, and although being a catholic, I dont read the bible... I know my rights from my wrongs, I know when my actions hurt/affect people, I dont need a book to tell me that

If we counted up all the people on the earth who dont feel guilt, I bet 99.9% of them dont believe in God. The other 0.01% probably have mental health issues like those terrorists from 9/11....

Like I said, God gave us a free will, and that equates to power. Good power and bad power. We have been given a chance to live a life how we like, but also given a brain to analyze our lives. The good go to heaven, the bad dont.

Why would God create a perfect earth, life is a challenge for us given by God, a test if you like, but not a hard one in any respect, a very easy one. God gave us an interesting world to live in, and in respect we look after it. Its like buying a pet, you buy a dog, so it doest have a lonely life, and people can enjoy the pet, but if the pet steps out of line and kills a neighbours pet, or bites someone, or kills a child, then that dog is put down.....

 

Physical revenge, to answer the first point. Not some streak of bad luck or whatever else it is i'm supposed to be encouraging, that's not even in my mindset. Reading the rest now...

 

The rest is just standard religious fare really. Nobody geve me my free will. Prove me wrong.

 

Prove you wrong, ok, my pleasure . You can do anything you want right? If you wanted to, you could stand up, go to the toilet, take a whizz, come back and sit down, even if everyone around you told you not to....

Then take a look at chemistry, you mix 2parts hydrogen with 1 part oxygen, and you get water. These natural elements, altho part of this world, they dont have a choice, they will become water whether they like it or not. We, humans, do have a choice in what to do. Thats why there are so many bad people on this earth, like the poor chap who got brake fluid or paint stripper all over his new scoob.... because the scum who did it, had a free will. They also had the choice not to do it....

 

Still waiting for proof that "God" gave it to me, not whether i actually have one or not, come on, keep up.

 

Also, answer me this....

Various things in life have a meaning, right? Like say, raising a child has a meaning. If it didnt, we wouldnt raise our children and just leave them to fend for themselves and die...

So why shouldnt life have a meaning, ie the example of life as a test from God?

 

My life DOES have meaning, without a belief in God. You're deluding yourself into believing that a life cannot be meaningful, however you define it, without a belief in God. Simply and utterly not true. Not even nearly true.

 

Well, whatever created you in the first place, gave you that free will. And if you believe that the Big Bang just "happened" to happen..... well, I guess you cant prove your own question right or wrong....


Also, I was thinking about science today. Large objects have their own pulling/gravitational force right? Well, why then, does the enourmous sun, not pull all the oribiting planets into it....? Why do all the planets, just happen to stick to their orbit, and not fly off somewhere?

 

So what is our role on this earth? If we didnt have a role (given to us by someone) this earth and life would be a pretty pointless thing dont you think

 

Get a book on physics, not theology, it'll explain all that for you. Or else if you want to frame it religiously, what "game" is God playing by expanding the Universe at an accelerating rate? Is he bored with worrying about how much guilt there is on teeny tiny little ol' Earth or something?

 

As "pointless" as any other animal which doesn't have the ability to question their existence. Do they have a less meaningful life because they haven't developed the brainpower to make up the God story? No, of course not.

 

You seem to be avoiding my question, and trying to drift off the subject like our friend geezer did

What is our role on this earth? to do bad things to everyone we can? to reject god. In the same way we adults can create children, so can God create us

 

Oh believe me, i'm avoiding nothing whatsoever, there is no aspect of my existence that i don't feel 100% comfortable with, and that's totally without any need to include an higher power. My role? To exist. To procreate. To enjoy life on Earth. To be happy. To make others happy (occasionally). The list goes on. Pretty similar to your role i would imagine. Except without the prayer books and any need to attribute my human charateristics to some non-human entity...

 

Now who needs to keep up? I said I dont read the bible.... If our role was just to be happy, and enjoy life and make other people happy....hmm that would be a good life.

I know you said the list goes on... But where did that initial feeling, that we need to look after our babies and families come from? We need to help people around us, often we need to do things which we dont want to do... We have a responsibilty, to look after the earth and the people on it....

The people who dont fulfill their responsibilities, are the ones who cause problems on earth, because they dont believe in God, they dont believe in the consequences that might come, then when you look at life from this point of view, you realise why religion OR belief in God is a good thing to have

 

Quick question, if you don't mind me digressing. What's your opinion on homosexuality?

 

Lol, read my previous post, I added a little....

As for homosexuality, well I believe that its a form of disability/ being handicapped mentally.

According to science, a male is meant to reproduce with a female. BUT, if a male wants to show affection for another male, whats to stop him doing that? Or whats to stop a female showing affection for another female? We have free will (which I believe is given by God ) so we can do what we want?

Why, whats your view on homosexuality? What does it have to do with what we are discussing anyway?

 

You are a full on loon!

I have to agree with practically everything Telboy says, I have an identical take on life.

 

It has lots to do with it. Your answers have pretty much said all i need to hear. You go your way, i'll go mine. You understand astonishingly little about the human condition. Perhaps that's a pre-requisite for finding religion. Sad.

 

Well, Im happy you found your soulmate in life

 

How so?