andy97

iTrader: (1)

If everbody just elected to take their speeding case to court, then the whole system would grind to a halt and collapse.

Over 2 miilion tickets were issued last year, the judicial system just couldnt cope and they would have to do something about it, hopefully de criminalise speeding.

I dont mind paying a fine, its the points and increased insurance costs that tot up.

Side note, Germany is the place to go, for a bit of speed fun. I recently travelled at 160mph on a public road, safely and legally.

OllyK

That would be less of an issue if they weren't merrily dropping the speed limits to boot. A610 was a NSL dual carriageway, now down to 40mph. Funnily enough almost nobody does 40mph along there.

SJ_Skyline

Olly, if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about.





Oh yeah, unless someone has cloned your plate, eh, Felix?

OllyK

Had both plates nicked off an old car. Fortunately no come back. I plan to remove mine completely, there's no traffic cops around to stop me and even if I'm that unlucky it's a small fine and no points.

SJ_Skyline

I'm of a like mind mate

speedking

"Drivers who slow down briefly or who make a detour from the main route will still be caught ..."

I don't think so.

By slow down briefly, I suppose they mean slow down at the GATSO cameras. But if I'm stuck behind a truck doing 40 for a couple of miles then I can do 80 for a couple of miles without tripping the cameras. Besides which you often have to slow down for bends, so the straights can be taken faster.

Making a detour increases the length of the journey reducing the average speed between the fixed points.

What is needed is an in-car average speed calculator, push a button and the machine starts, it tells you what your average has been since the button was pushed, enabling you to stay below the required average as you pass each camera.

My favourite game on the M6 was to go like stink after the last camera before my turn off, while everyone else was stuck at the limit due to further cameras after my exit (No camera covering exit).

Felix.

We do

The Chief

E-mail sent to

jim.fitzpatrick@dft.gsi.gov.uk

I suggest people do the same (for what its worth)

Geezer

After the salaries, NI, pension contributions and other associated staff costs, cars and fuel etc. I would imagine about 3, so the cameras, unfortunately, make very good economical sense for the police.

Of course, you are absolutely right about the fact that cameras don't catch bad drivers etc., but I don't honestly remember that there were loads more traffic cops around 25 years ago when I started driving (in fact, I would say there are alot more now TBH), but the amount of cars on the road has increased greatly. It's a fairly logical -if unpopular and cyincal - move for them.

Still, I would prefer the money to be spent on coppers on the ground, not in cars, generally someone doing 57mph in a 50 zone is far less of a danger to society than a youth with a knife........

Geezer

The Chief

I do a fair bit of driving down to the south and over the years the standards of driving i witness are deplorable.

The biggest problem in this order is tailgaiting and shocking lane dicipline, we need to ditch the cameras and get more traffic police who can give judgement against the driver doinga nice steady 85mph and the nutter up someones **** and in and gunning in and out lanes.

Anyway will be interesting if i get a snotty response which i probably will, bleating on about road safety and current doctored figures blah blah

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

With all the PC health and safety etc training they have to do nowadays you're probably right. "Today we're going to learn how to be nice to criminals so we don't upset them when we catch them..." lol.

It seems that in the South East police are too stretched - not enough man power, so the cameras go up in their hundreds. In the South West and up North I used to see far more police on the street and on the roads (this is only in the last 4-5 years) so where the heck are all the ones in the South East? London probably? God knows.

Most of the ones I see locally are CSO's who are given less respect than a traffic warden by certain members of the public!

The Chief

I sent a scathing e-mail to the dot - this is the response i got today...

Dear Mr Rea

Thank you for your e-mail to Jim Fitzpatrick dated 10 October about the use of average speed cameras. This has been passed to the Road User Safety Division and I have been asked to reply.

I can assure you that speed cameras have absolutely nothing to do with raising "cash" as you imply and everything to do with road safety. The Department’s latest guidance on the deployment of cameras which was issued on 31 January 2007. This sets out best practice advice and is clear that the primary objective for camera deployment is to reduce deaths and injuries on roads by reducing the level and severity of speeding and red light running. The guidance is available in the Speed Management section of the Department’s website.

Time over distance average speed cameras (SPECS) that cover entire routes, have been shown to be extremely successful at encouraging compliance with speed limits and reducing accidents. The use of these cameras is entirely a matter for local authorities who can place them wherever they believe them to be the best solution to a road safety problem. In the coming years these cameras are likely to be used more frequently.

Camera use is based on solid evidence. The independent four-year evaluation report of the National Safety Camera Programme, published on 15 December 2005 found a 42% reduction in people killed or seriously injured at camera sites, that means around 1,745 fewer people killed or seriously injured per annum, including over 100 fewer deaths. In addition, there was a 22% reduction in personal injury collisions, which translates into a reduction of 4,230 per annum. The same year, a literature review undertaken by the University of the West of England failed to find a single published research paper anywhere in the world that found cameras to have a negative overall effect. The Government therefore remains firmly committed to their use.

You will be interested to know that during the past decade the number of people killed or seriously injured on the roads has been reduced considerably. In 1997 there were 46,583 people killed or seriously injured on the roads. This total has been reduced every year since and in 2007 (the latest year for which figures are available) was down to 30,720. During the same period, road deaths were reduced from 3,599 to 2,943, despite a huge increase in traffic on our roads. I am sure you will agree that this is good news and I can assure you that reducing this toll further remains a key priority.

Finally, I should stress that those who break the law pay penalties, as other lawbreakers do. Drivers who abide by the speed limit and therefore do not put other road users at risk have nothing to fear from cameras or any other form of speed limit enforcement.

Further information about speed management and the use of cameras is available on the Department’s web site at:
Department for Transport - Speed management

I hope this is helpful.

Yours sincerely



John Gray

OllyK

If you have TomTom on a PDA there is a free app that will do that for you. It knows where the SPECS are and will measure your average speed between them.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Funny that car safety standards have increased enormously too in the last decade or so. You note it only says "killed or seriously injured" - it doesn't mention the number of accidents.

Typical government institution - distort figures to work in their favour.
If they were only made to publish a full honest report with ALL the data I bet we'd see how little effect speed cameras really have.

I'm getting to the stage where I feel like grabbing an angle grinder and going round the country cutting down every CCTV, Gatso and Speed camera around - perhaps then they'll make an effort to get out there and meet the community, and learn what we really want them to do instead of monitoring us like rats in a maze...

The Chief

The arrogance is unbelievable - i told them in my e-mail that they are so out of touch with the public and if they think they will retain power then they are deluded (the e-mail was originally sent to the minister of transport)

Howya doing by the way?

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Too right - but then they're already deluded - after all, Brown and Darling claim they know what they're doing (me too - screwing this country up so much that I'm considering emigrating ).

I'm good though thanks - still spending money on the car, although a little bit more careful in the current climate - you never know when someone might say "you're redundant," after all.

Did you make the McRae gathering earlier in the year? I saw a few people from the protest there - was good to catch up again. Borgie was mentioning another event coming soon too....can't remember what it was though...

The Chief

Nah didn't make that - heard it was good though.

Not heard from Borgie, i still have his number though.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Switch lanes between cameras & you can do whatever speed you like ...

TX.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Google 'specs cameras lanes' and it suggests you cannot guarantee you'll avoid a penalty by changing lanes between cameras; have you tried this yourself? I prefer not to risk it but it gets right on my **** that SPECS are always erected often months before any roadworks even start...

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

They've left SPECS on the M3 & there's been no roadworks there for months. Makes me

In answer to your question - I've not tried it as wouldn't like to get caught if it didn't work! SPECS is not supposed to be authorised to work lane to lane ie legally you can only get caught speeding within a single lane.

I often pull up behind the car in front of me anyway when I get near the scameras so they can't read my plate

TX.

Nimbus

Do you know what the App is called? I've tried a google but could not find it.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

But if drivers didn't have to spend so much time watching their speedo or watching out for cameras they could devote alot more time to concentrating on the job in hand which is driving the car.

Felix.

Observation skills - you need to check everything around you including your instruments

Diesel

I could have written that!

Nonsense statistics that the gullible swallow are always spewed out (and RIP Paul Smith)! Deaths may have been up in one year due to weather/conditions/black ice. Michael Fish probably has more to do with the 'good' these cameras do to the public...

More humans to catch pi$$ed drivers on bald tyres (etc) and less big bro and BS propaganda would be far more appropriate.

Why are cameras/cops NEVER outside schools, by pedestrian crossings, near shopping centres? I would welcome that in conjunction with other proper policing.

The government care more about crushing cars for no road tax than crushing dangerous irresponsible driving and spend millions on advertising an Orwellian approach to lost road tax

Exceeding the national or motorway speed limit by a small but prosecutable margin is rarely dangerous, jumping a red ALWAYS is - lets have the cameras on traffic lights then? The Fed FD says no... Absolute BS... We have so many muppets in charge (or is it just me that is so angry and delusional about these ever well meaning caring people???)

D

The Chief

Will be sending a reply to the snotty reply i got, i'm gonna ask them if its all due to road safety and not a cash cow then why is Swindon council ditching all its speed cameras, if anyone else has any ideas what i can put in my repky feel free to post it and i'll stick it down

Diesel

Hey Felix/PC's any response, comment or interest in any of that's validity? Might go a long way... D

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Well at least your cameras are visible and your mobile cameras are marked with signs or generally by a huge white van. Over here they tend to put them in the back or front of a parked car and park the car in a row of other parked cars, so you have zero chance of seeing it, the first thing you know about it is when you get a red flash go off in your face or you get a bill through the door. If it is not in a parked car it is between, parked cars, or in a bush with a camnet over it, our cameras ar also all painted Olive green. We do not have camera warning signs on show either. To be honest if you get caught by a camera in England you really are your own worst enemy.

Diesel

Do they also put towels over them, for early morning subterfuge?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Funny you should mention that! But