Hill Climb and Sprint RA Project thread eventually
#481
Looks good! Re master cylinders and bias bars, I changed mine to a pedal box setup, and went with .625 front, and 0.7 rear- I have had that working on newage Brembo, and a very duifferent setup with smaller front and rear brakes.
My struggle getting it working properly was when an old rally boy pointed out that the master cylinder rods were quite long, and would work better if I cut them down a little, as risk they could not fully extend when excited.
Brakes are now awesome, and adjuster dealt with correction- just trying to save you a couple of quid!
Re MSA regs, if you run production class I don't think you need a HANS as you can run your seatbelt and not harness? Just put your interior back- makes no real difference anyway!
My struggle getting it working properly was when an old rally boy pointed out that the master cylinder rods were quite long, and would work better if I cut them down a little, as risk they could not fully extend when excited.
Brakes are now awesome, and adjuster dealt with correction- just trying to save you a couple of quid!
Re MSA regs, if you run production class I don't think you need a HANS as you can run your seatbelt and not harness? Just put your interior back- makes no real difference anyway!
#482
Thanks Grant the master cylinders I have are correct in terms of rod length. The Jury is still out if they are the right size but hopefully will have that confirmed shortly. The only way to do it properly is take the piston size/area of the calipers which you are using and then calculate the sizes needed.
My problem was/is to do with the end float in the bias bar causing the bias to constantly change, that is only a set up issue so easy to fix but needs the pedal box removed to do it.
In terms of class for my car it is way to far gone to ever fit back in road car class so it will be in modifieds which does require a HANS device. I am not going to go for a Hans tho I am going to use a Simpson Hybrid neck and head restraint. Having spoken to a number of guys who have used Hans devices before they much prefer the Simpson as it is less intrusive and is equally effective, the only problem is they are twice the price.
My problem was/is to do with the end float in the bias bar causing the bias to constantly change, that is only a set up issue so easy to fix but needs the pedal box removed to do it.
In terms of class for my car it is way to far gone to ever fit back in road car class so it will be in modifieds which does require a HANS device. I am not going to go for a Hans tho I am going to use a Simpson Hybrid neck and head restraint. Having spoken to a number of guys who have used Hans devices before they much prefer the Simpson as it is less intrusive and is equally effective, the only problem is they are twice the price.
#483
What I was trying to say is the ones I have gone for in terms of sizes seem to generally be about right for the car.
My end float issues went away when rod was shorter- guess it was something complex like the angle of the dangle!
Have bought my HANS- road car comment was for other poster- you aren't standard lol. I have taken on being 'Speed Chairman' over here, so if you fancied a trip over, hillclimb dates are on jerseymotorsport.com and youtube vids online! I'm trying to get more scoobies up the hill, including a couple of road boys- some might become serious !
My end float issues went away when rod was shorter- guess it was something complex like the angle of the dangle!
Have bought my HANS- road car comment was for other poster- you aren't standard lol. I have taken on being 'Speed Chairman' over here, so if you fancied a trip over, hillclimb dates are on jerseymotorsport.com and youtube vids online! I'm trying to get more scoobies up the hill, including a couple of road boys- some might become serious !
#484
Do like the hill climbs I still have the road car class record for Doune it has stood for about 5 years but think it will get broken soon although the changes to the Tyre lists this year won't help anyone chasing it.
Had a conversation with a few friends over New Year and probably now won't go for a Hans Device but will go with the Simpson type they seem to much more comfortable too wear.
Had a conversation with a few friends over New Year and probably now won't go for a Hans Device but will go with the Simpson type they seem to much more comfortable too wear.
#488
Totally agree the X22's are awesome tyres the problem with the Khumo's is the soft sidewall, if they would put a decent carcass on the tyre they would be the best road legal track tyre bar none but as it is the tread tends to roll across the tyre under hard cornering.
#489
Well not updated on the progress due to work commitments. The rear arches are on and now just need tarted up underneath where we have ground back to bare metal for Graeme to do his welding magic. It has turned out amazingly well Graeme has done a brilliant job on the welding and managed to weld up the rears without any damage to the paintwork even tho he only had 20mm to play with
There is a fair amount of material removed from both the arch and the bumper to give us the room needed to drop the rear ride height and still allow clearance under compression it was a lot more work than I had anticipated and a lot more thought and guidance needed.
This was the initial cut but more than this was finally removed
The arches are only loosely bolted on they need a wee bit fettling and spacing to make them look 100% but will play with that later.
One side at the front is 90% done with a little bit more to come off the bumper and the other side is 50% done with a bit more cutting of the arch and bumper.
required.
Again this was the initial cut with a fair bit more removed after this. You can get an idea of how much needs to be removed from the bumper as well.
Now that we have mocked things up with a set of Graeme's wheels we have 90% decided on the wheel size and offset so will need to confirm this and get them ordered this week as they are made to order. The other issue is that the trailer is now very very tight due to the large increase in track width so I am now having to look at the possibility of a new trailer or having to use narrow wheels for transport and then having the issue of needing somewhere to put 2 sets of race wheels going to and from the events. So may need to sell some body parts too fund it lol.
Anyone looking for a trailer
There is a fair amount of material removed from both the arch and the bumper to give us the room needed to drop the rear ride height and still allow clearance under compression it was a lot more work than I had anticipated and a lot more thought and guidance needed.
This was the initial cut but more than this was finally removed
The arches are only loosely bolted on they need a wee bit fettling and spacing to make them look 100% but will play with that later.
One side at the front is 90% done with a little bit more to come off the bumper and the other side is 50% done with a bit more cutting of the arch and bumper.
required.
Again this was the initial cut with a fair bit more removed after this. You can get an idea of how much needs to be removed from the bumper as well.
Now that we have mocked things up with a set of Graeme's wheels we have 90% decided on the wheel size and offset so will need to confirm this and get them ordered this week as they are made to order. The other issue is that the trailer is now very very tight due to the large increase in track width so I am now having to look at the possibility of a new trailer or having to use narrow wheels for transport and then having the issue of needing somewhere to put 2 sets of race wheels going to and from the events. So may need to sell some body parts too fund it lol.
Anyone looking for a trailer
#492
Been a bit remiss in updating the thread, although it seems like not a lot has happened with the car its been a really busy 3 months putting the final touches to the car trying to make sure I didn't have a repeat of last years problem after problem season.
After the wheel arches had been finished in terms of the cutting and welding I rubbed the lot down and painted it to make sure it was well rust proofed. I also fitted some thin rubber sheet to make some wheel arch covers for the front to keep the elements away from the wiring looms that run through the front wheel wells as well as keeping things light.
Next up I continuity checked every wire from the Ecu into the engine sensors etc with no problems found, so I hoped that the issues I had last year were down to a faulty crank sensor. Nothing showed on the Syvecs fault list but after I changed it at the Sept 15 SLS I had no issues for the rest of the event last year so it looks like that was the problem causing the car to randomly go into limp mode.
The last and most pressing issue was the brakes, after the problems I had with the pedal box I decided to remove it and go back to a servo and master cylinder. In reality the problems I had were mostly due to bad advice on initial set up and master cylinder sizes. It did work well after I changed the front master cylinder size and removed most of the play in the bias bar set up but it still felt too rear biased. Fitting the servo back in proved to be a right pita due to the position of the turbo, in the end I had to shim one side of the servo mount to move the master cylinder away from the turbo compressor housing. Once plumbed in and bled I was stunned to see how much movement there was fore and aft in the master cylinder when the brake pedal was pressed hard. I always thought that brake stoppers were a waste of time but I will admit fitting one made a huge difference to the feel and operation of the pedal.
also fitted a new AP bias valve
Couple of pics of dash set up and final engine bay
also couldn't resist a wee bit of bling
I managed a couple of test sessions at Knockhill on the SIDC track day and a Scottish Sprint test day at Kames, the car and the brakes worked well so at last it looked like I finally had a reliable car.
Last thing too do before the first event of the season was fit a set of Hatch WRX hubs, new bearings and AS Performance spacers. With these done it was over to Graeme's to get an initial geometry set up done for Kames. Kames was the first Scottish Hill climb and sprint championship event of the year but for me it was more about competitive testing to make sure the car was on song for SLS the following week.
So Sat 9th April and it was an early start and off to Kames. It was 6 years since I had done a competitive event at Kames so it was a bit daunting. Even though I had been there on a track day it was a totally different ball game driving competitively.
I was running an old set of wheels with a set of Dunlop CR311 X22 tyres, normally a good combination but now they were much narrower than I would have liked but I didn't have anything else suitable. The wider alloys and wider Toyo R888's for SLS just wouldn't work on the short sprints, I didn't see the point in spending £1200+ on a set of slicks so went with what I had.
This was a two day event with 2 practice runs and two timed runs each day, clockwise Saturday and anticlockwise on Sunday. The weather on the Saturday wasn't brilliant, it was cold and damp to start with but as the day went on it dried and ended up a decent day for racing. I was surprised right from the off how narrow Kames was it really is tight and technical with zero room for error. there were 4 of us in the modified class. My lack of competitive driving in these small tight circuits was proving to be quite telling. I was really disappointed in my final time, I had went out on the first timed run with the intention of putting in a banker time, running on a 1.8 bar Cal setting I ended up With a time which was slower than I was doing in 2010 while in road car class. On the 2nd run I knocked the boost up too 2 bar and promptly spun at the hairpin on the first lap oops day over and 2nd in class.
Sunday morning started a bit bizarrely with a dusting of snow on arrival at the track, there was also an issue with the timing which forced the event to revert to clockwise runs for the Sunday, there was some sort of wiring issue with the timing for the finish beam on the anticlockwise circuit which was a shame as I always preferred the anticlockwise circuit at Kames. As the day progressed I just couldn't seem to get any quicker on the clockwise circuit so again ended the day 3 secs behind and 2nd in class. All in all it had been a mixed bag, good work out for the car which performed faultlessly but a disappointing result for me in terms of times but its hard to get too carried away as its 6 years since I had driven competitively at Kames.
After the wheel arches had been finished in terms of the cutting and welding I rubbed the lot down and painted it to make sure it was well rust proofed. I also fitted some thin rubber sheet to make some wheel arch covers for the front to keep the elements away from the wiring looms that run through the front wheel wells as well as keeping things light.
Next up I continuity checked every wire from the Ecu into the engine sensors etc with no problems found, so I hoped that the issues I had last year were down to a faulty crank sensor. Nothing showed on the Syvecs fault list but after I changed it at the Sept 15 SLS I had no issues for the rest of the event last year so it looks like that was the problem causing the car to randomly go into limp mode.
The last and most pressing issue was the brakes, after the problems I had with the pedal box I decided to remove it and go back to a servo and master cylinder. In reality the problems I had were mostly due to bad advice on initial set up and master cylinder sizes. It did work well after I changed the front master cylinder size and removed most of the play in the bias bar set up but it still felt too rear biased. Fitting the servo back in proved to be a right pita due to the position of the turbo, in the end I had to shim one side of the servo mount to move the master cylinder away from the turbo compressor housing. Once plumbed in and bled I was stunned to see how much movement there was fore and aft in the master cylinder when the brake pedal was pressed hard. I always thought that brake stoppers were a waste of time but I will admit fitting one made a huge difference to the feel and operation of the pedal.
also fitted a new AP bias valve
Couple of pics of dash set up and final engine bay
also couldn't resist a wee bit of bling
I managed a couple of test sessions at Knockhill on the SIDC track day and a Scottish Sprint test day at Kames, the car and the brakes worked well so at last it looked like I finally had a reliable car.
Last thing too do before the first event of the season was fit a set of Hatch WRX hubs, new bearings and AS Performance spacers. With these done it was over to Graeme's to get an initial geometry set up done for Kames. Kames was the first Scottish Hill climb and sprint championship event of the year but for me it was more about competitive testing to make sure the car was on song for SLS the following week.
So Sat 9th April and it was an early start and off to Kames. It was 6 years since I had done a competitive event at Kames so it was a bit daunting. Even though I had been there on a track day it was a totally different ball game driving competitively.
I was running an old set of wheels with a set of Dunlop CR311 X22 tyres, normally a good combination but now they were much narrower than I would have liked but I didn't have anything else suitable. The wider alloys and wider Toyo R888's for SLS just wouldn't work on the short sprints, I didn't see the point in spending £1200+ on a set of slicks so went with what I had.
This was a two day event with 2 practice runs and two timed runs each day, clockwise Saturday and anticlockwise on Sunday. The weather on the Saturday wasn't brilliant, it was cold and damp to start with but as the day went on it dried and ended up a decent day for racing. I was surprised right from the off how narrow Kames was it really is tight and technical with zero room for error. there were 4 of us in the modified class. My lack of competitive driving in these small tight circuits was proving to be quite telling. I was really disappointed in my final time, I had went out on the first timed run with the intention of putting in a banker time, running on a 1.8 bar Cal setting I ended up With a time which was slower than I was doing in 2010 while in road car class. On the 2nd run I knocked the boost up too 2 bar and promptly spun at the hairpin on the first lap oops day over and 2nd in class.
Sunday morning started a bit bizarrely with a dusting of snow on arrival at the track, there was also an issue with the timing which forced the event to revert to clockwise runs for the Sunday, there was some sort of wiring issue with the timing for the finish beam on the anticlockwise circuit which was a shame as I always preferred the anticlockwise circuit at Kames. As the day progressed I just couldn't seem to get any quicker on the clockwise circuit so again ended the day 3 secs behind and 2nd in class. All in all it had been a mixed bag, good work out for the car which performed faultlessly but a disappointing result for me in terms of times but its hard to get too carried away as its 6 years since I had driven competitively at Kames.
Last edited by Arch; 23 May 2016 at 07:56 PM.
#493
So after Kames it was just a wee bit of TLC required after my spin on the Saturday. This had resulted in a bent splitter, cracked bumper and damaged fog cover, a couple of hours fibre glassing, bit of cataloy and some paint and it was as good as new ish. I also had time too sit down and have a good look at the in car footage and I was stunned at some of the things I was doing. It was quite an eye opener but good in as much as I know where I lost most of my time.
A trip over to see Graeme and a final set up and corner weight on the car seen it ready for the next outing. It was also time to break out these and the wider R888's
So next up was the first round of SLS, running clockwise on 17th April. This years entry is the biggest yet and looking at the warm up groups it was obvious that space on track was going to be difficult with so many cars on track at one time, with everyone all looking for space for a quick lap. I wasn't really that bothered in the warm up as I needed to scrub in a new set of tyres so this session was more about looking at the circuit, scrubbing the tyres and having a look at braking points.
This session was hampered slightly as I was struggling to get the water temps up above 75 deg which was a bit of a problem but after a hard lap they came up to a more normal 90 deg.
The practice session was as hard going as the warm up, it was almost impossible to get a clean flyting lap with so many cars on track so in the end I started to concentrate on taking various parts of the circuit fast to see how the car reacted to the kerbs etc. The times were improving slowly but still no where near what I was looking for even though I was still running low boost.
Next up was the qualifying session, we were held in the paddock for an extended period as a result of a red flag, due to the small battery I run I didn't switch the car off just in case it didn't restart, this resulted in water, oil and charge temps getting higher than I would like. The result was the need to do 2 slow laps to get all the temps back to normall before trying to find space for a fast lap. During the session I managed two quick laps but neither was fully clear which resulted in 2nd place in qualifying. That said when I seen Colin Dorwood's time of 54 secs and his speed traps even if I had got a clean lap I don't think I would have matched that at this point.
Well now it was the final, I knew I hadn't been driving to the cars full potential but was still sitting 2nd in class, the final is a one hit and mistakes are punished so its important to make sure you finish but have to be right on the edge, on the outlap I had Russ Paton in front of me in his Pro class EVO, I knew I didn't need to give Russ much room as he should be quicker than me, off we went in the out lap car felt good and I was ready, once round clark's I seen Russ far enough in front so I opened the car up and went down the back straight in 6th, down into 2nd for the hairpin and then its as quick as you can get through the gears up the straight, just before the marshalls hut is where I take 6th, all good so far, cars flying and into 6th now its a case of timing the braking point and bollocks braked way too early and then took 5th instead of 3rd time lost exactly when I didn't want too, managed to get it into 3rd as I took the kerb into duffus, the rest was blur until the chicane, went into it way too fast and ended up sideways, remembered Graeme's advice keep the foot in and let the diff sort it, wee bit of opposite lock and hard on the pedal and it straightened up and took off like a scolded cat towards clark's. The rest went well, good entry to the hair pin late on the brakes and right across the apex and up the straight. I knew I had lost time but was hopeful that I had made it into the 55's. Once back in the paddock I heard I had done a 56 bollocks way too slow so was sure that would be second place. Then one of my lads came over and told me Colin Dorwood had done a 57 sec in his Evo and Sam was over a minute in his McLaren so first event and a first place in class, wasn't expecting that but would gladly take it.
So all in all a really good result personally despite a poor drive in the final but a first in class along with George and Paul Rankin it was 3 firsts in class for team Whiteline. I am under no illusions that I need to step up the pace significantly to have a chance of 1st in the next rounds in May, but as with Kames a look at the in car has been an eye opener, braking way too early and far too slow on the power, lots to learn and lots too improve on but happy enough for now.
A trip over to see Graeme and a final set up and corner weight on the car seen it ready for the next outing. It was also time to break out these and the wider R888's
So next up was the first round of SLS, running clockwise on 17th April. This years entry is the biggest yet and looking at the warm up groups it was obvious that space on track was going to be difficult with so many cars on track at one time, with everyone all looking for space for a quick lap. I wasn't really that bothered in the warm up as I needed to scrub in a new set of tyres so this session was more about looking at the circuit, scrubbing the tyres and having a look at braking points.
This session was hampered slightly as I was struggling to get the water temps up above 75 deg which was a bit of a problem but after a hard lap they came up to a more normal 90 deg.
The practice session was as hard going as the warm up, it was almost impossible to get a clean flyting lap with so many cars on track so in the end I started to concentrate on taking various parts of the circuit fast to see how the car reacted to the kerbs etc. The times were improving slowly but still no where near what I was looking for even though I was still running low boost.
Next up was the qualifying session, we were held in the paddock for an extended period as a result of a red flag, due to the small battery I run I didn't switch the car off just in case it didn't restart, this resulted in water, oil and charge temps getting higher than I would like. The result was the need to do 2 slow laps to get all the temps back to normall before trying to find space for a fast lap. During the session I managed two quick laps but neither was fully clear which resulted in 2nd place in qualifying. That said when I seen Colin Dorwood's time of 54 secs and his speed traps even if I had got a clean lap I don't think I would have matched that at this point.
Well now it was the final, I knew I hadn't been driving to the cars full potential but was still sitting 2nd in class, the final is a one hit and mistakes are punished so its important to make sure you finish but have to be right on the edge, on the outlap I had Russ Paton in front of me in his Pro class EVO, I knew I didn't need to give Russ much room as he should be quicker than me, off we went in the out lap car felt good and I was ready, once round clark's I seen Russ far enough in front so I opened the car up and went down the back straight in 6th, down into 2nd for the hairpin and then its as quick as you can get through the gears up the straight, just before the marshalls hut is where I take 6th, all good so far, cars flying and into 6th now its a case of timing the braking point and bollocks braked way too early and then took 5th instead of 3rd time lost exactly when I didn't want too, managed to get it into 3rd as I took the kerb into duffus, the rest was blur until the chicane, went into it way too fast and ended up sideways, remembered Graeme's advice keep the foot in and let the diff sort it, wee bit of opposite lock and hard on the pedal and it straightened up and took off like a scolded cat towards clark's. The rest went well, good entry to the hair pin late on the brakes and right across the apex and up the straight. I knew I had lost time but was hopeful that I had made it into the 55's. Once back in the paddock I heard I had done a 56 bollocks way too slow so was sure that would be second place. Then one of my lads came over and told me Colin Dorwood had done a 57 sec in his Evo and Sam was over a minute in his McLaren so first event and a first place in class, wasn't expecting that but would gladly take it.
So all in all a really good result personally despite a poor drive in the final but a first in class along with George and Paul Rankin it was 3 firsts in class for team Whiteline. I am under no illusions that I need to step up the pace significantly to have a chance of 1st in the next rounds in May, but as with Kames a look at the in car has been an eye opener, braking way too early and far too slow on the power, lots to learn and lots too improve on but happy enough for now.
Last edited by Arch; 03 May 2016 at 12:11 AM.
#502
The arches are the ABW narrow ones, the wider ones are more robust than these ones tho but for my needs I didn't need to go as wide as the wider ones would allow as it would end up over tyring (is there such a word lol) for short sprints.
#504
I was fortunate enough to have help from Graeme Jeram at Whiteline the idea was to create clearance for a wider wheel and tyre combination as well as being able to lower the car while retaining sufficient clearance for track work should the car bottom out.
The arches are the ABW narrow ones, the wider ones are more robust than these ones tho but for my needs I didn't need to go as wide as the wider ones would allow as it would end up over tyring (is there such a word lol) for short sprints.
The arches are the ABW narrow ones, the wider ones are more robust than these ones tho but for my needs I didn't need to go as wide as the wider ones would allow as it would end up over tyring (is there such a word lol) for short sprints.
I have the wide ones, but struggling to find someone who understands the need for cutting the arches and measuring for the wheels etc!
lots of places can bolt some on and spray it but measuring for wheel clearance etc is proving difficult!
#506
Nice to see it been thought about!
I have the wide ones, but struggling to find someone who understands the need for cutting the arches and measuring for the wheels etc!
lots of places can bolt some on and spray it but measuring for wheel clearance etc is proving difficult!
I have the wide ones, but struggling to find someone who understands the need for cutting the arches and measuring for the wheels etc!
lots of places can bolt some on and spray it but measuring for wheel clearance etc is proving difficult!
#507
Well done Archie
The attention to detail and thought process that's went into this car speaks volumes.
But then again... I wouldn't expect anything else when Graeme's involved. Top man!
Good luck with the rest of our season... Guessing it's just down to the driver now as to how many trophies/events you win.... No pressure ;D
When is the next sprint/hillclimb btw ?
Cheers
Frank
The attention to detail and thought process that's went into this car speaks volumes.
But then again... I wouldn't expect anything else when Graeme's involved. Top man!
Good luck with the rest of our season... Guessing it's just down to the driver now as to how many trophies/events you win.... No pressure ;D
When is the next sprint/hillclimb btw ?
Cheers
Frank
#508
Thanks Frank last year was frustrating I had always had a reliable car in the past so last year was hard. With Graeme involved setting the car up and advising it has moved it up a level. I knew the basic car was there in terms of engine, electrics, chassis etc but if it's not set up properly for the track you will never get the most out of it.
I know I have not got back to where I was in terms of driving and that's something I need to sort now.
I know I have not got back to where I was in terms of driving and that's something I need to sort now.
#510
I'll keep an eye out for the Kames and hillclimb events I think Arch
Meant to go last year , esp if John or yourself was running, but never got round to it.
Guessing Johns car is still on the go and doing hillclimbs?
Done knockhill do death over the past few yrs so wanted to see what this hill climbing malarky was all about.
Meant to go last year , esp if John or yourself was running, but never got round to it.
Guessing Johns car is still on the go and doing hillclimbs?
Done knockhill do death over the past few yrs so wanted to see what this hill climbing malarky was all about.
Last edited by It's a Classic; 27 April 2016 at 12:42 AM.