silent running

Yes interesting a few people have mentioned the looming spectre of pay-as-you-drive. Norwich Union did a trial of a similar system to price car insurance for young drivers, but recently had to abandon it as outside of their own guinea pigs, there weren't enough real paying customers who wanted it. I think the people who dream up these ideas really don't think that the man in the street is that bothered by this incredible erosion of our civil liberties. I personally can't see how it's that different from fascism. Too many people honestly don't see anything wrong with black boxing all our cars and having us monitored 24 hours a day, where we go, how long we stay there, what our travel patterns are, how quickly we drive etc. I honestly dread the day when that kind of thing gets passed in parliament and the government wangle the right to snoop on all of us if we want to drive a car. But we allowed CCTV on every street corner, we allowed average speed camera networks, we will soon be compelled to give our biometrics for passports, we already have our DNA taken and sold on to private 'research' companies if we are even suspected of a crime, etc etc.

mr fix it

I think its effecting selling newer cars...I have a 06 wagon for sale and did not get much interest. At the minute we only do a few thousand miles in this per year and the road tax is loads. My company golf costs f**k all to tax and does 20k per year....that must do more harm to the environment and cost less to tax!

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Too right mate - I for one won't ever voluntarily fit one of those boxes to my car. And the biometric passport is a joke too. If we can't trust them with standard records why the hell should we give this bunch of jokers our DNA!!? God only knows what they'll use it for...

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Just checked and my bug was registered on the 2nd Feb 2001. Phew!

scouse2

iTrader: (2)

wish the government knew what vaseline was because hurts without it

where is it all going to end

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Completely agree ... and it still amazes me that so many people in this country don't seem to give a toss. One thing you forgot, the ID cards we'll all be compelled to carry that will contain a chip which can be read by proximity readers.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I wrote to my local (Labour MP) about this retrospective and unfair tax hike. He personally wrote back to me saying he agreed and had was writing to Alistair Darling (chancellor) about it. He also said he'd let me know his response in due course.

If enough people wrote to their local MPs (Labour) about this instead of just wringing their hands in despair, there WOULD be enough pressure on the chancellor to scrap the plans.

For those of you reading this that can be bothered, I've pasted my letter below...

--------------

Dear

I'm writing to you about the retrospective increase in vehicle excise duty that the government is planning to introduce for higher emitting CO2 vehicles registered on or after March 1st 2001.

I am someone who cares about the environment and with dwindling oil supplies and the debate over climate change, I can see the logic in applying higher VED rates to higher CO2 emitting vehicles at the point of purchase, therefore allowing someone who is purchasing a new vehicle to make an informed choice in the light of these higher rates. However, to apply these rates retrospectively is disgraceful.

It's hard to believe that a British government would apply retrospective taxation. It goes against all notions of natural justice. Car-buying decisions aren't made lightly, but to tell someone years later that he or she made the wrong choice and that you’re now going to cripple them financially is criminal.

When I purchased my current car, climate change was far less of an issue, so I made my choice accordingly. With mortgage payments, fuel and food costs soaring, I can't afford to buy a cheaper tax band, newer car. And even if I could, the prospect of these higher rates has at a strike knocked £thousands off the second-hand value of my current vehicle making it even more impossible for me to do so. Besides, as I’m sure you’re aware, a large proportion of the total CO2 emissions of a vehicle results from its manufacture; forcing people to sell perfectly good vehicles (even if they are higher CO2 emitters) to buy new ones will actually produce a larger carbon footprint overall.

In recent weeks, the government has claimed that it is listening to the pain of its people and trying to help them. If this is the case, I urge you to scrap these penal VED rates for older cars, which will hit many people who are least able to afford them and do absolutely nothing to help the environment.

Finally I would like to add that I have been a lifelong Labour supporter, but for me, this issue will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. If you implement this disgraceful tax rise, I will never ever vote Labour again.

Yours sincerely

richie001

iTrader: (3)

this isn't new we've known about this since the budget in March

Jamie120182

Nicely written now all we need to do is print off thousands and post them through peoples letter boxes with a stamped addressed envelope to the local MP.


I have only recently purchased my car knowing full well that this tax was coming, the way i see it is; the way things are going it is only ever going to get harder to own this type of car and of course "you only live once" blah blah

silent running

Well I only recently saw my MP last week about a different matter, so well done for doing something instead of whinging aimlessly. It's a very balanced letter and I wish more people would get off their **** like you instead of commiserating with themselves and anyone who will listen about their bad luck...

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I've said this before without much interest. One lawyer shared between a few thousand Scoob drivers won't cost each of us much. The tax conveyor belt has probably already cost me a few £'000 on the value of my car & it will get worse every time a car tax increase is made. Anyone bet against it happening every Budget ...

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

What about pre 51 plate Jap cars imported today so will be "registered" after the cut off date(s)? Kind of f*cks up the import market as well if older cars can't be imported without a huge car tax to pay

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

It's that expensive now that we should be offered a direct debit option - £400 in one hit Who's got that sort of money lying around

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Agreed. In the short term it will force petrolheads in to older cars which we'll mod. When these cars become too old to keep on the road I guess manufacturers will be building cars that handle well etc with low CO2 engines that we can just throw away when we buy them. That mad Toyota Aygo springs to mind

I guess the Govt will close off this loophole after a while though, they always do

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

That isn't the case is it though fella which is why lots of people are really p*ssed about this! Car pollution counts for circa 3% of the total CO2 emissions (sp?) in the UK. The Govt should look elsewhere if they are really attempting to tackle the CO2 "problem". It's clear to me though that the motorist is an easy target & this is yet another tax on money where I've already paid the ******* some tax ...

The fairest tax of all is PAYE as the more you earn the more you pay. Mr Brown has made the tax situation so complicated that it's almost impossible to work out what you pay every year! I'll hazard a guess that the poorest people are now the worst off relative to tax vs what you actually earn.

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Heard of this & I'm not sure what it actually means though?

TX.

silent running

That may or may not be, depending on whose figures you look at - and for the sake of this argument, I'll happily accept it - but the point is that this is now the 21st century and we have to do what we can about the things we CAN change. However small a proportion of overall pollution that comes from petrol/diesel vehicles in our country, it remains that it IS something we can do something about and if we in the UK don't set an example, who in the world will? I guess you can choose to either be part of the problem, or part of the solution, simple as that.

My point remains that you don't get anywhere by whinging about your particular case to the exclusion of others. Let's say you go to your MP and say you don't like what's happening with car tax and don't believe that the environment is an issue that concerns you, and you don't have any alternative method of encouraging less use of private vehicles whilst still raising money for the treasury. You think he's going to take you seriously?

I totally agree with what your saying; it's a bummer for people to have to be charged huge road tax, especially retrospectively. And that's despite the fact that it makes no difference to me whatsoever as I've never ever owned a new car, or even one that was nearly new LOL. But trying to argue this one on the fact that cars don't contribute to CO2 is a dead end. The real issue is to work out the most equitable way to get people who don't care about their cars particularly and could actually live without them quite easily, onto public transport or zero emission travel. I love my car but I see no purpose in me driving it 25 miles round trip every day to work, in traffic, with it virtually empty, no passengers, no luggage, nothing. Hence why I'm looking into getting a bike instead. If they could offer me a form of public transport that would cost me a quid a day to do my commute, in reasonable comfort, with only 5 mins walk at each end, I'd do it, and save my Scooby for the weekends and evenings. The fact is, for me out in the country, there is no such service.

silent running

Meaning that instead of our signature and a photograph being how we are identified, instead we will now have to give fingerprints, retina scans, DNA and no doubt soon enough blood, hair, fingernails and skin. It used to be criminals who had to give their fingerprints but now they want everyone to, because 'if you've got nothing to hide why would you mind giving your DNA?' Er, because the government have been proven over and over to be a bunch of lying, incompetent ***** who I wouldn't trust to organise a village fete let alone guard my biometric data. It has already been revealed that the DNA database, which contains details of thousands of innocent citizens not convicted of any crime, has been trawled over by private companies paying the government a lot of money to do 'research'. The world of '1984', 'Bladerunner', 'The Net' and 'Minority Report' is not as far away as most people think.

Mr Bat

Getting back on topic...... at least the increased Road and fuel tax will mean fewer chavs buy Subarus. It might become a desirable car again !

LWells

iTrader: (3)

Not sure if youve seen this one but I have an 05wrx... its 219kg on the emisions.. which means it falls below the 225 limit! So you save a bit and will be paying £310 not £440. The good thing is you can modify this to say 280bhp quite easily and still pay the slightly cheaper tax while having a modern car :-). Ok its not PPP Sti performance but still a capable car. I hate all the taxs we pay and petrol prices etc but I cant ever see any of them going down :-(

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Silent L.

My point is that when cars count for just 3% it is not a good use of resources to try & reduce it down further. Better to go after the 80% that will make a difference. We all know (& you must surely agree) that it is just another p*ssy tax on the motorist who are an easy target just because there are so many of us?

FYI I have indeed written to Mr Darling on this subject ... I got a reply after 3 months that was nothing more than a standard letter / template arguing the case for VED. To say that I was disapointed to have every single point raised in my letter ignored is an understatement

TX.

Edit - when do the biometrics p/ports come in?

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

The VED rates are affecting prices..

My friend has a 54 plate WRX prodrive.. 6 months ago he tried to sell it at 8k,no takers.
Now its for sale at 6k,and he is still struggling to get rid. Nobody wants to pay £455 on a car thats worth so little..

Half a grand a year is a lot of money to find for most,whereas £200 is swallowable.

Microstar

£455 is not too bad on a new £15k+ car, but as the car gets older it becomes a larger and larger proportion of the car's value. I can imagine that this will decimate the value of the older turbo-engined Subarus (and its not as if the market is in a good state at the moment anyway). I think this will really hit home next April when reminders start to drop onto doormats. We'll see people taxing for 6 months and then trying to offload the car over the summer - so values will take another big knock.

I agree that PAYE is the fairest form of tax, but the great British public have consistently voted for parties that reduce PAYE and load tax onto other goods/services (Thatcher started that trend). People have only got themselves to blame for stealth taxes. I don't think the Tories will be any better. Tim Yeo (the Tory environment rep) has said that the government is not being tough enough on high-emissions cars I we all know that 'Dave' is an avid cyclist.

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

I've got a 2003 911 and if i had new about this i would have bought an older one.

Remember if you vote labour at the next election you are agreeing with their policies!

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Hypothetical now.......I have a 52 plate WRX, due for tax at the end of Sep. I expect that the tax will go up next April, is that correct? If so, can I get 6 months that sees me up to the end of March, then get a year at the cheaper price a month before my disc runs out, ie. end of Feb 09.
I hope it makes sense......